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Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/06/2019 in Posts

  1. 7 points
    olddirty

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I like FLO, and I listen to FRL. I would say I was at the upper echelon of competing and I have had to scout and figure out tendencies, game plan for specific international opponents, and figure out certain guys signature positions. What is painfully obvious to me is that the guys on FRL have little to no grasp on strategy and tactics at that level, nor do they understand the rules and hierarchies of many positions. It seems to me, that is what TS Antitroll is asking. Why dont they bring in a personality that can decipher what is going on from a strategical, tactical, and positional standpoint? I dont really find it necessary for me because I understand those things. Many people dont, and I feel maybe they are left wanting more sometimes. I will continue to support FLO and I think they are doing a good job.
  2. 3 points
    GoNotQuietly

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Flo guys, I hope y’all can dig through the 80% nonsense in this thread and take the 20% of insightful constructive criticism. Many of us deeply appreciate Flo, and I’ve often said it gives me the most enjoyment per dollar of anything I buy each year (although I can’t for the life of me figure out why you can’t organize and expand the technique section which used to be great). That said, as far as FRL goes, I don’t buy that you have to have competed at a high level like some of us to comment on tactics and technical intricacies, but having a high level retired athlete, official, or coach on every once and a while would certainly be beneficial. It’s not like you can’t find people in those categories with tons of personality. Mike Mal’s podcast was great on that stuff, and he already works for you, and after having him do a clinic at our club, I can assure everyone high level technique and tactics is all he thinks about, so just Skype the dude in. One last thing, I know you all want to emulate successful, sometimes though commentary from “main stream sports”, but you really have to do a better job of realizing when you’re punching up and when you’re punching down. Every time some suited commentator is talking **** on an NFL or NBA player, they are talking about someone who is probably more famous than them, makes more money than they do, and is living a life where it should be pretty easy to dust off a loud mouth on TV and get back to the copious attention of good-looking company, but wrestling is not like that; often when you’re going at someone, outside of the .01% of elites, they very well might be scrapping by, their die hard fans are basically consists of their nuclear family, they are thinking about how to keep the dream alive another day, and may be in a pretty low place sometimes. Just keep that in mind that sometimes you’re the celebrities benefiting a lot off of the mass of wrestlers who might not be seeing the same rewards as y’all from their labors... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  3. 3 points
    Antitroll2828

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Yea pretty much what I was getting at..I like Flo overall and I like FRL normally I just think some things in these higher levels matches go right over there heads.i wasn’t saying anyone needs to go I just think it would be beneficial all round If they added someone that can give more of a wrestling take opposed to a fan and slightly biased fan at that
  4. 3 points
    fadzaev2

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I'm not posting to get in an argument....just throwing in my 2 cents. I've been involved in wrestling for close to 60 years, as a competitor, coach and clinician. Coached at most of the levels for many years and worked camps for about 35 years. Point being I have a pretty good knowledge of the sport and it's many different aspects. I think back to television coverage, which over time has been minimal. In 1972, when we won 3 Gold medals in addition to some silver and bronze. As I remember it, the main sportscaster for wrestling was a football player/Frank Gifford, but mainly because of Gable, we did at least get some serious coverage, including a special on Dan. Later, we got Russ Hellickson who did a great job for a number of years. Later, I watched for a number of years, Tim Johnson and Doug Brown on Iowa Public Television broadcasting matches with the likes of Iowa, Iowa State, Okla State, Oklahoma, Northern Iowa, and more. The Big Ten Network now has Jim Gibbons, Tim Johnson and Shane Sparks. I guess my point is, we're still limited in the number "big time" announcers. And I'm so thankful we have Flo, and what they offer us......I live by Flo, Track and TheMat.com. So, Bader, Willie and company don't bother me......I won't listen to a whole Flo Radio Podcast, so I look at the index and pick what I want to hear. Maybe they can find better, I don't know.....I appreciate them for what they do bring to the table, rather than look at their wrestling resumes....they're not that bad. I have a more difficult time listening to Steven A. Smith on ESPN when he starts screaming at Max Kellerman, or whoever his sidekick is....I change the channel at that point, actually maybe it's why I don't watch ESPN as much as I used to. I do like Jim Gibbons....great guy, I'm friends with him, but to be honest, I get tired of "freight train double" and his reference to the "belt buckle", but do I want him doing BTN.....absolutely...he brings a lot to the table. And as far as all this goes, this thread was on page 7 when I put this post out, and there was no way I was going to go thru all this banter....just wanted, again, to throw in my two cents from my "coaches corner". Fadz
  5. 3 points
    Husker_Du

    How does Flo not hire ...

    i remember when everything on flo was free and you still said we sucked lol
  6. 2 points
    jon

    How does Flo not hire ...

    FloFilms excellent. Flo social media godawful. There's a big halo effect, which we see is diminishing. Flo's got every thing it needs to do better. Waiting...
  7. 2 points
    57 Fix, 5th 61 Graff, DNP 65 Zain, 5th 70 Green DNP 74 Burroughs Bronze 79 Dake Gold 86 Downey DNP 92 Cox Gold 97 Snyder Silver 120 Gwiz Bronze
  8. 2 points
    It is absolutely asinine to try and place anyone’s career on an all-time list while their career is still in progress.
  9. 1 point
    nhs67

    Missouri Questions??

    Tigers just picked up the #1 Recruit in Michigan in Josh Edmond. The guy has had a lot of flashy success in freestyle, so I am thinking his style will translate well in the room, with the right coaching. https://www.michigangrappler.com/news_article/show/1046638 Solid pickup and another reason for me to follow the Tigers.
  10. 1 point
    Even assuming Dake did more schoolwork, that does not make him a better wrestler. Dake's wrestling is judged according to his wrestling, not according to his courseload or, for that matter, the amount of time he spent feeding the hungry, healing the sick or walking his dog.
  11. 1 point
    1032004

    If/when Yianni wins 4 NCAA titles...

    We get it, you went to an elite private school.
  12. 1 point
    treep2000

    My Cinnabon topic question...

    I'm an Ohio State fan that never wrestled for Ohio State and lives in Colorado so I cannot attend their matches. I don't think I'm irrelevant because of wrestling at a different school and living my adult life in a different state?
  13. 1 point
    TBar1977

    My Cinnabon topic question...

    Be careful, treep. They might kick you out of the club for those remarks. Lol.
  14. 1 point
    Fishbane

    How does Flo not hire ...

    It wasn't clear that is what you were getting at in the OP. I think Stieber would be great doing match breakdown segments. This could be like what ESPN does in the detail segment with Kobe Bryant in basketball and Peyton Manning in football. Flo does these kinds of things with Mike Mal's videos. I don't think Stieber would be as good as a regular host. And I don't think he would have any authority or greater insight for setting the dispute you brought up regarding scoring that sequence. ESPN doesn't bring in Kobe Bryant to explain why something was called a common foul instead of a flagrant 1 no do they bring in Peyton Manning for a rules interpretation as to why pass interference was or was not called. I think Nomad might be better suited to field for rules interpretation than Stieber. I am pretty sure Nomad has read the UWW rulebook. I am not sure Stieber or anyone on the 2019 US World Team has. CP interviewed Stieber on the original Yianni-Zain Final X matches. He asked him about the disputed scoring sequence. He said he thought 2-2 was "probably the right score." But he also said he "doesn't know the rules." He was more even handed in talking about it than maybe the FRL guys and definitely the fans on this board, but he didn't offer any greater insight than either. It's not like Sylvestri (UWW head of officials) rescoring the match or weighing in. Here is the video if you missed it https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6517160-logan-stieber-on-retirement-decision-future-yianni-zain What was ridiculous about FRL 403 was that no one out of Nomad, CP, and Bratke seemed to be able to understand how anyone could have scored that 2-0 for Retherford despite it being the official scoring or they did but just wanted Willie to explain it for them anyway, but he clearly wasn't up to the task. So it turned into them badgering him about something they already understood (or should have) and didn't want to admit.
  15. 1 point
    treep2000

    My Cinnabon topic question...

    I like Tbar. I think he's a PSU homer, sure... but I don't see him as being Tribalist in nature. He comes across mostly reasonable, most of the time. That said, there are others on here that deserve the negativity much more so than Tbar. Just sayin'...
  16. 1 point
    jon

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Discrimination? Lol you're not so far from the truth. You see his great idea that UWW should separate Iran + Israel entrants?
  17. 1 point
    BobDole

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I sent my resume, but Pyles denied me. I believe it's age discrimination. I am going to file a lawsuit.
  18. 1 point
    IronChef

    Weight Certification

    I assume you're talking about college, but if he weighs 185 at certification and is measured at 5%, then he can't go down at all. However, he and his coaches will likely have a strategy for the actual day of the certification to have him where they want him to be.
  19. 1 point
    russelscout

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Whats the best way to bring attention to those guys who are scraping by? Praise is good, but you can only hear so much about how hard someone works until people are just tired of it. A contentious character gets attention and unfortunately that does play a part here too. I agree with what you are saying, and there is definitely a fine line to walk, but to suggest there is no room for criticism of the athletes can actually hurt the athletes in my opinion. You have to create an interesting narrative to keep people entertained, but its definitely a fine line though.
  20. 1 point
    LJB

    FRL 404 - 9/05

    so, after yesterday's shenanigans i thought it only appropriate to bring up today's FRL and how enjoyable it was... no squabbling... no yelling over each other... no ridiculous takes by the hosts (i specify the hosts because schalles and all that) it was back to the typical FRL show... the only umbrage i take with any part of the show was once again willie... he made the comment that aquaman was "all right"... possibly the most audacious take ever on FRL... other than that... *tip of the cap with low bow*
  21. 1 point
    Plasmodium

    FRL 404 - 9/05

    I thought Willy's defense of the indefensible in 403 was amusing. He was overly enthusiastic about being wrong. You don't see that every day.
  22. 1 point
    Plasmodium

    Yianni D - best shot defense, ever?

    Two words: Buvaisar Saitiev.
  23. 1 point
    JBluegill133

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I am a monstrous fan of FLO happily pay the money each year because the amount of coverage they have is and continues to be unmatched. Specifically, FRL has had taken me from being just a D1 college fan, to knowing more about high school wrestling/wrestlers and international wrestlers as well. My only gripe is it just seems like lately they are feeding in to more silliness and inside jokes, especially with these last two episodes. Their questions from fans segment used to be my absolute favorite because they would get really interesting questions, dissect them, and have meaningful conversations. Now it has just evolved into who can make the goofiest twitter handle to get noticed and then ask a ridiculous question....and then the hosts entertain these questions which then just continues the cycle. It may be because its a little bit of a down period and when worlds comes it will pick back up, but sometimes I feel like i am listening to a podcast that TMZ or Buzzfeed would put out as opposed to wrestling journalism. That's why I am happy to have found the Rudis podcast. Seems a little more fact driven and straight forward.
  24. 1 point
    jon

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I for one am a big fan of Rudis podcasts!
  25. 1 point
    TBar1977

    How does Flo not hire ...

    So you think that after all Zain went thru this summer that after he again wins the world team spot for the second time, that the very next FRL show should immediately go with 45 minutes of whining about the officiating in a way that strongly suggests Yianni was robbed and, with that, Zain's win is again tainted? That episode was misplaced.
  26. 1 point
    lu1979

    2019 Worlds: Make your predictions

    It's the world championships - a lot of good wrestlers won't get medals
  27. 1 point
    No Sanayev at 57kg? No Bonne at 61kg? No Bajrang at 65kg? No Oliynik at 79kg? No Shabani at 97kg?
  28. 1 point
    Fishbane

    How does Flo not hire ...

    It’s possible but in FRL episode this argument occurred in they kept losing Willie’s audio when they went to show a replay of the scoring sequence from match. CP and the other cohosts acknowledged this so I know that issue wasn’t on my end. I wouldn’t conclude they have the audio issues when showing replays fully sorted.
  29. 1 point
    russelscout

    How does Flo not hire ...

    They are hiring. You could step up and be the fix. Make Flo Great Again!
  30. 1 point
    tbert

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Doesnt sound ridiculous to me. Dake has probably influenced Yanni on this more than anyone. If you feel you are going over and you are in a 50/50 type position, you should try to "fool" the officials into at least a 2&2. It appears the only ones he "fooled" were posters on here and maybe a couple naive announcers.
  31. 1 point
    fadzaev2

    Rutgers

    The whole crew to some degree, but I believe getting Donny Pritzaff was huge!!!!
  32. 1 point
    10point

    How does Flo not hire ...

    the main point is the announcers are terrible to listen to and they are unbelievably biased
  33. 1 point
    denger

    Alleged Ohio State Disabato video

    When I was in HS in the 90s, our 160lber was probably the best athlete on the team. He liked to grab you by the junk and do other sexually suggestive things to express his dominance, probably to express his homophobia too and perhaps some curiosity. I was the 119lber and an inferior athlete, but it was clear to me that I had to fight him. I obviously didn't win that fight, but I gave it all I had, which was enough to catch the attention of some adults, and he cut it out. Bullies don't always need to be defeated, but we can probably all agree that they do need to be fought. Abuse happens when someone exercises their power over someone, and when it works it's because of the shame and isolation that a victim feels. It's easy to imagine that I would fight the doctor too, but he wasn't a peer, and he wasn't in a place where physical combat settles all scores. He wasn't a bully who needed a sock in his mouth, he was a serial sex offender who used his authority over student athletes. He was also an official of the university and operating out of an examining room where the students were isolated. I highly doubt that a physical altercation seemed like a viable option for the students who were being abused. Risk an assault charge? Risk losing your scholarship, place in your closest community and reason/means for going to university? I don't think so.
  34. 1 point
    Well, to understand the DRL you need to understand the system of wrestling leagues in Germany at first and the argument of the German federation and the DRL. In Germany we got in each State a few regional federations and all of them organize 3-4 leagues with one league for the whole state. For example, I live in Baden-Württemberg and we got Federations of Württemberg, Süd Baden, North Baden and ARGE Bodensee/Schwarzwald, in all of this Federations we got like 4 leagues with different level, you as a team start in the lowest league and if you win the league you move on to the next. Each league contains 6-10 Teams and they compete from September to Christmas twice against each other, one time in your hometown and the other time at their town. A win gains 2 Point, draw gains 1 point and a lose 0 points. When you and, you're team win all state leagues and move on to the Bundesliga, we got 3 Bundesligen, South, North and Middle with 8 teams. The best 8 Teams of the 3 leagues compete from January to February in playoffs against each other. These leagues are labeled as "amateur leagues" because wrestling is a amateur sport. A few years ago, I think about 20 years or more, the DRB (Federation) decided to allow 2 Foreigners in the lower teams and 4 foreigners in the Bundesliga. Each Team contains 10 Wrestler in the following Classes 57kg, 61kg, 66kg, 71kg, 75kg twice, 80kg, 86kg, 97kg and 130kg, five matches freestyle and 5 matches greco, they shift in the second half of the season. Usually in the fourth or fifth league it's common to "buy" two foreigners from Romania, Bulgaria, Polen or any other country with relatively near distance to Germany, the foreigner wrestler usually stay for the season in Germany or drive each other week for 6 minutes of wrestling to Germany, they get paid 100-300€ per fight and are expected to win every fight. Last year my old team in 3th league hired the 97kg bronce medal winner of U23 Worlds of 2017 and it was a good thing for him, because he earned money and competed 16 times against opponents of various skill levels, I think he lost one or two fights, just to understand the level of the leagues. Every wrestler can earn 4 Points for his team in each match. The way for earning the points are : Win with 1-3 Points difference = 1 Point for Team Win with 4-8 Points difference = 2 Points for Team. Win with 8-14 Points difference = 3 Points for Team Win with 15 Points or more difference = 4 Points for Team Pin = 4 Points for Team In the lower leagues usually U23 or junior members of foreigner nationalteams get hired, but in the highest league often times worldchamps or medalwinners of worlds or Europeans get hired, for example : Magumedmurat Gadzhiev, Cengizhan Erdogan, Balint Korpasi and many more. A few years ago a ceo and millionar of a big company in Germany needed a new hobby and decided to sponsor a small wrestling club in his hometown of Ispringen, he bought some foreigners, some German wrestlers and Ispringen worked his way up in the leagues and finally arrived in the DRB Bundesliga. He payed the foreigners and Germans very well, hired professional coaches and everything. He also tried to change the Bundesliga because we had 5 Teams with money up to 400k € each year just for the wrestlers and teams with less money and because of the high maintenance costs(for each foreigner wrestler the uww wants 500-1500€ just to allow them to transfer/wrestle and the state federation often times also wants money to let them go each week to compete) of the teams the Bundesliga got smaller and smaller and contained just 12 teams at the end. He decided to fund his own league and of the 12 teams just 4 joined them, Ispringen, Weingarten, Nendingen and Schifferstadt, later Eisleben and the Belgium based Team Eupen joined the League. Of course the German federation wasn't a fan of this because they lost a ton of money from the fees the 5 teams usually would pay and forbid every German wrestler to compete in the DRL otherwise they will get kicked out of the nationalteam. So the DRL decided to pronounce their league as a professional league to fight in court to allow the German wrestlers to compete in the DRL, the federation lost the battle in court and has to allow German wrestlers to compete in DRL but they told every German, if they compete in the DRL they will not be considered for the international Competitions and now only the third or fourth guy signs with DRL Clubs or older guys who wants to earn a bit of money and are totally fine with not competing internationally anymore. The DRL pays approximately 1000€ or more for each fight for a German guy, so it's not a bad thing for them. But because of the ban of German wrestlers the teams decided the rules in the DRL are, 10 Wrestlers for each fight, 6 Athletes from European countries are allowed and 4 guys from non European countries, such the US or Russia are allowed. The teams in total contain 24 Wrestlers. I hope it's not to long to read and you understand everything, if not just ask, I wi try to explain everything.
  35. 1 point
    MDogg

    How does Flo not hire ...

    Could very well be...I just assumed it was a self deprecating joke given his wrestling resume (on the mat at least).
  36. 1 point
    whaletail

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I think he and Tbar are correct that this turned into the summer of Yianni, and Flo wasn't immune. Between the huge wins, Final X, arbitration controversies, and the FLWC access, Flo, and FRL, were obviously enamored with the guy. His story was something special this summer. But neither FRL, nor the site itself, disrespected Zain. The Flo website hosted numerous Zain specific articles, and with any access to NLWC, would almost certainly have hosted more. Perhaps more importantly, despite obviously jumping on the Yianni bandwagon pretty early (again, understandable), the FRL hosts never disparaged Zain in any way at all, and I imagine his presumed injury played a huge role in their winner picks. I don't think Willie was wrong at all when he stated that Zain would have to be 100%, and wrestle as well as he did in the initial Final X matches, to beat Yianni. As it happened, he was 100%, and did wrestle as well as at Final X, and won. I haven't listened to yesterday's FRL yet, but arguing about a call doesn't imply favoritism, nor even dismiss Zain's win, and I certainly haven't heard anything on FRL this summer that suggests any of the four hosts bear PSU any ill will at all.
  37. 1 point
    Billyhoyle

    delete - double post

    Don’t delete. Possibly the greatest topic you’ve ever posted.
  38. 1 point
    Mphillips

    How does Flo not hire ...

    You all keep it up and Chertow will be in the 'chair.'
  39. 1 point
    russelscout

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I am confused by this. Maybe you could rephrase it in a way that makes sense. He was wrong when he said that it was perposterous that someone would call that exposure for Yianni. I have seen that called exposure for the guy on the leg many times and usually it seems that the offensive man is rewarded. I don't see how Willie could see that I think we have a problem if only an Olympic wrestlers can explain our sport to the fans. Yeah Logan can offer tidbits that the layman wouldn't know, but I don't really see an issue with the the flo crews analysis in this case. Be honest, as a PSU fan, you're just miffed that they are not celebrating Zain's win in the way that you think they should. Also, it is Yianni not Yhanni
  40. 1 point
    leshismore

    How does Flo not hire ...

    I think they are very knowledgeable in many ways and enjoy the banter for the most part. Logan would be a great addition :-))). My main issue with FRL is the childish xenophobia by Pyles. In contrast to the other boys, CP is your typical American who has never traveled overseas really, and of course, has never lived anywhere either. Aside from the shallow American way of looking at the world, I think he/they add a great deal to the sport. I was glad to hear Willie and Nomad wanted to live outside of the US for a while to learn more about wrestling and life. Quite a contrast from the other nationalism, intolerance, and bias we hear from CP. But to cut him some slack, he is like your bright, yet clueless nephew who visits for the holidays... he has a lot of interesting ideas, but from a global perspective, he is quite naïve and inexperienced. Keep up the good work Flo... but yes... bring in some folks with deep experience more often.
  41. 1 point
    LJB

    How does Flo not hire ...

    for all of willie's faults (and there are plenty) he was not wrong today...
  42. 1 point
    irani

    Iran Wrestling News

    Again, it's all Mazandaran and Tehran, with a couple of token Hamadan and one Kermanshah in there. hats off to Mazandaran for doing so well, but if Iran wants to do well, they have to get other regions to do well. We need Azerbajan, Kermanshah, Lorestan, Khorasan to develop great champions the way they used decades ago
  43. 1 point
    Shiraz123

    Iran Wrestling News

    65 کیلوگرم: ابوالفضل حاجی پور (مازندران) پیمان بیابانی (تهران) 70 کیلوگرم: امیررضا اکبرزاده (مازندران) با برنده (محمدصادق فیروز پور (مازندران) – امیر حسین مقصودی (تهران) فرهاد نوری (تهران) سعید چهاردولی (همدان) امیرحسین حسینی تهران)) 74 کیلوگرم: نیما اشقاقی (مازندران) با برنده (جمال خدابنده لو (همدان) محمد نخودی (مازندران)) 92 کیلوگرم: حسین شهبازی (تهران) با برنده (محمدحسین میرباغبان (تهران) ارشک محبی (کرمانشاه)) 97 کیلوگرم: دانیال شریعتی نیا (همدان) میثم عبدی (تهران) مجتبی گلیج (مازندران) عباس فروتن (مازندران) 125 کیلوگرم: مهدی هاشمی (مازندران) امیرحسین زارع (مازندران) U23 Trials announced in certain weights
  44. 1 point
    Jake Percival over #1 Mike Zadick 18-5 in 2002
  45. 1 point
    Late 70s 118 final unseeded Daniels pinned 1 seed Azevedo in 30 seconds.
  46. 1 point
    i know you're trolling, but i'm bored. Caldwell over Metcalf, for one.
  47. 1 point
    from my understanding Spencer will be pulling double duty and wrestling NCAA on a limited basis much like how Snyder did in the past.
  48. 1 point
    How many times did Tony Nelson make the finals?
  49. 1 point
    Kinseth was going to get the OW no matter what anyone else did that weekend. 9 pins in a row to end the season!
  50. 1 point
    I'm going to lay out my perspective on this. Naturally, no one else needs to accept it, but I think it has a lot of utility. When I was a kid (this would be around 3rd and 4th grade), I used to look at the wall charts to see who was in my weight. I developed a good sense of who everyone was, and could tell how tough my weight was. I would go down the chart, and think, "He's good. He sucks. He's okay. He's really good; if I make it to the semis, I'll probably have him. He's okay..." After a few years, I found myself going down charts and thinking, "He sucks. He sucks. He sucks. He sucks..." At a certain point, I realized: "These guys don't all suck. I think I've gotten good." Most people start off with a fixed frame of reference. The people who become sufficiently good at something tend to grow beyond it. "Garbage" is a pejorative term. It's like "lard-ass". Now, you can define your terms however you like, but if you call someone "lard-ass" and don't expect him to be offended, you're pretty foolish. Saying, "Well, look, it's not my fault... here's what the term means, and here's how it applies to you" is either disingenuous or clueless. Likewise, the average middle school wrestler is average. If you want to say "garbage" covers that, you can, but I don't think it's a good idea. The gap between the best middle school wrestlers and the average ones is indeed large. As we get better at the sport, that gap will inevitably get larger. That's not a good reason to term the average ones (or even the beginners) "garbage". Likewise, the gap between good college wrestlers and the best middle school wrestlers is large... and should be, else what have the college wrestlers been doing with their time? That's not a good reason to term the best middle school wrestlers "garbage" either. If a good coach takes an average wrestler and works with him for awhile, he becomes a good wrestler. How do you describe this? "Well, you were garbage before, but now you're not?" Again, you can define your terms however you like, but not all definitions are equally useful. Talking like this isn't productive. Regarding most wrestlers at any given level with scorn is, in my view, stupid... and that's what this amounts to.
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