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Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/27/2020 in Posts

  1. 6 points
    It was held in Toledo, Ohio and was the first World Cup held in the United States. There was to be 16 more World Cups held in Toledo, largely due to the influence of Joe Scalzo and Dick Torio who both were from Toledo. Scalzo, former U. of Toledo Wrestling Coach, a lawyer, VP of FILA at one time, also brought 2 World Championships to Toledo....1962 and 1966. Torio, who owned a health club in Toledo, was a 3 time All-American, wrestling for UT, was involved with 5 Olympic games, 4 as an official, and 1 as a coach. Both of these guys have been inducted into several wrestling Hall of Fames. That first World Cup had a very good team, including Jimmy Carr, Lloyd Keaser, Stan Dziedzic, John and Ben Peterson and maybe a couple other great ones. The single greatest thing I remember during the competition, was Jimmy Carr suplaying the Russian 4 or 5 times in a row, and the Russian coach, Yuri Shakmiradov getting all but one of them taken away during a time out. (no video review back then of course). Another memory I have was up in a press box "filming" from up high in the old Fieldhouse, and Neil Turner of Athletes in Action was sitting next to me during the gift exchange. He told me to watch when Ben and John Peterson (AIA) exchanged there gifts. All the other Soviets opened up there gifts right there....maybe t-shirts/jeans.......but the 2 Soviets with the Peterson's didn't open theirs, as there were Bibles wrapped in the t-shirts. Another great memory was that I was able to go the World Cup training camp.....actually went home and got my movie projector so Gable could show his Munich Gold medal match with Ruslan Ashruliev to the guys in the training camp. During the camp, I watched Gable work out with some really good guys, some who outweighed him and it didn't matter...he dominated. He didn't compete in this meet ....he was coaching with Bill Wieck and Jim Peckham. Gable was to wrestle one more match soon after this competition in Madison Square Garden against the Russians, and then retire, although he did try a comeback a couple years later. Gable beat the 149.5 pounder, Pavel Pinigin in the Garden. Pinigin, who was a Junior World Champion, actually scored a takedown, and then Gable beat him pretty good. Lloyd Keaser beat Pinigin in the World Cup. This meet was the beginning of a great tradition. Other teams that wrestled over the years in the World Cup included Russia, Cuba, Iran, Canada, Japan (As a side note, I attended one session of the 1966 World Championships in Toledo, but was young enough that I couldn't appreciate it yet. Also, it was Greco-Roman which was held the same week as the Freestyle)
  2. 6 points
    KCMO2

    Abe Lincoln wrestling artwork

    Sure it wasn't in Iowa, the fans in the background are calling for stalling.
  3. 6 points
    Cradle1

    Ohio State is vastly underrated

    And to think that this sport hasn’t achieved mainstream appeal.
  4. 5 points
    Rumors are circulating that Musukaev has been battling covid-19 for years! I'll see myself out now.
  5. 5 points
    AnklePicker

    The "is there talent" debate on Flo

    Set up 20 kids in a classroom with zero training and ask them to draw something realistically. Some kids will inherently be able to draw it some won’t even come close. Those who can have a talent for drawing. I like using drawing because it has nothing to do with success or competition and it’s a fairly complex skill mentally and physically.
  6. 4 points
    AHamilton

    Michigan

    Keggers!!!
  7. 4 points
    gimpeltf

    Would you go to dual held today?

    You could have stopped after the first 3 words.
  8. 4 points
    red blades

    Would you go to dual held today?

    So many nominees for the Darwin awards here...
  9. 3 points
    I have been away for awhile, but I can't leave a good debate untouched. Listening to the recent FRL discussions of talent I couldn't resist commenting on it and I wonder what you guys think. First of all, Ben does something in this discussion that really disturbs me. He continually ensured the audience that he has done a ton of research on this as a reason for why he is right. That is not an argument. In my opinion it comes from a place of insecurity saying "I know my points don't sound great, but trust me, I know the truth". Bens argument is that there is no talent because all people have different skillsets they are born with. It is up to the individual to optimize the skill sets that are strong and build the ones that are weak. Therefore there is no distinct advantage in being born as someone with more fast twitch muscle capabilities if you can both develop that and optimize something else like flexibility or spatial reasoning. This is a flawed premise. It assumes that applicable skills are divvied out at an equal amount, and as long as you can develop those skills that or weak and optimize those that are strong you can be great at anything, which is not true. He also says you need to factor in what the play as a child, and then puts it on everyone else to prove that its not a thing. First of all, he needs to defend the argument he is making, not put it on others to disprove his theory. Also, is he denying genetics? He doesn't want to use 100m dash or track in general where genetic advantages are clear. Ethiopian long distance runners are not the best in the world because solely based on their play when they are younger. It may play a part, but their genetic make-up is ultimately what separates them from the best in the world. This predisposition to a high Vo2 max could be described as talent. It is an advantage that comes from genetic selection. Ben wants to limit the discussion to wrestling only when that point gets brought up. He says that the complexity of the sport allows for different skillsets to come into play. This is true. There are more variables at play. However, it does not account for the person who is given very little in any of the skills that he lists. This unlucky recipient could do everything possible to become the best wrestler in the world, but he will always be playing catchup to those who are more talented. Even if that person is able to get substantially better, there are still limits in time and eventually entropy will come in to play. Ben falls victim to the cliche of hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard, but any time I hear this I always think, "What if talent works hard?" Further, what if someone hits the genetic lottery, has strength, speed, flexibility, mental toughness, etc. at a higher degree than most? That person would be described as talented wouldn't he? I fail to see how someone who won the genetic lottery could ever lose to genetic loser if all other things are equal. The fact is, at the highest level of athletics natural selection does come in to play. Michael phelps is the best in swimming and he also has the ideal body for the sport. I could have never beat him no matter how hard I tried. He is just too talented. This isn't to say Phelps didn't have to work as hard, or that I could not have been a great swimmer in my own right. Hard work most certainly comes in to play, but it is not mutually exclusive. When all other things are equal, a natural talent will win the day. Yes, wrestling is different, but there are some skills that are more favored over others. Some are just more talented. I think Ben has fallen victim to the survivorship bias. He so badly wants to say genetics and luck are not a thing, likely out of ego or its just the coach in him, and he will analyze all of the best to prove his point . However he fails to recognize those who never reached a high level despite tremendous amounts of work; those who lacked the necessary talent. I may sound like a broken record as I have recommended the book the Sports Gene by David Epstein multiple times here. It is a well sourced book. I would honestly be surprised if Ben hadn't read it and I'd be very interested to hear what he thinks of the examples given by it. For those who want to read more about this specific topic it is a really good one and a fun, easy read.
  10. 3 points
    Yeah, that damn modern medicine just messes everything up. My whole family should have just accepted death or crippling injuries.
  11. 3 points
    Vaccines don't grant individuals 100% protection. What keeps us safe is when everyone else is vaccinated as well; then there are so few active cases that we're all less likely to be exposed. Not everyone can be vaccinated, either; some with compromised immune systems aren't candidates, and children who haven't received their shots yet are at risk. Their only protection is derived from our vaccinations. I really have a hard time understanding not wanting to be vaccinated, but then I buckle my seat belt too. My sister was born in 1951, I was born in 1954. The last big polio outbreak in this country was in 1952-53, and I still remember seeing a couple of kids in the apartments we lived in then in wheelchairs with leg braces. The Salk vaccine came out around 1956 or '57, and my mom grabbed the two of us and ran to the doctor to get us vaccinated. I got the rest of my immunities the old-fashioned way -- I had measles, mumps, chicken pox (all within a year), and rubella. Not any fun and downright dangerous.
  12. 3 points
    Awesome, he made a great breakdown video with Higuchi. He deserves more subscribers and likes. Will join his patreon soon. There aren't many good wrestling breakdowns on youtube, we need more!
  13. 3 points
    gimpeltf

    Would you go to dual held today?

    Everyone is vulnerable. Apparently you live in a pass fail world where live or die is all that matters. This virus hasn't been around long enough to know about long term issues, especially lung but also other organs, even among asymptomatics.
  14. 3 points
    madcat11

    Would you go to dual held today?

    No. I have almost no fear of getting it myself. Me passing it to someone more vulnerable is what worries me.
  15. 2 points
    1032004

    Ohio State is vastly underrated

    No way, behind at least Cornell, Nebraska and probably Iowa.
  16. 2 points
    jammen

    Wrestlers unbeaten streaks

    Unbeaten, not win, streaks as some had ties. If the History of Collegiate Wrestling had a different stat than the school's web site I went with the former as being more reliable. Note that some historic figures don't make the list simply for lack of matches (Yojo Uetake, Dan Hodge, etc). 1) 159 Cael Sanderson (IA St) 2) 103 Lee Kemp (WI) 3) 98 Pat Smith (Okie St) 4) 96 Dan Gable (IA St) 5) 94 Zain Retherford (PSU) 6) 90 John Smith (Okie St) 7) 89 Jim Zalesky (IA) 8,9) 88 Kerry McCoy (PSU), Gwiz (NC St) 10, 11) 87 Chris Taylor (IA St), Ben Askren (MO) 12,13,14) 84 Ed Ruth (PSU), Gray Simons (LH), Mike Land (IA St) 15) 83 Stephen Neal (CSUB) 16) 82 Alex Dieringer (Okie St) 17) 77 Kyle Dake (Corn) 18) 76 Cole Konrad (MN) 19,20) 74 Troy Steiner (IA), Mike Sheets (Okie St) 21) 72 Sammy the Bull Henson (Clemson) 22,23) 69 Brent Metcalf (IA), Tom Brands (IA) 24) 68 Bo Nickal (PSU) 25,26) 67 Mark Ironside (IA), TJ Williams (IA)
  17. 2 points
    iwrite

    Abe Lincoln wrestling artwork

    For those of you who read the first Lincoln wrestling post, I thought you might want to see this beautiful artwork done by noted illustrator Jack Bender some 20 years ago. It shows Abe wrestling Jack Armstrong in New Salem, Illinois, in 1831. the event is an amazing story and was told Friday by author/historian Mike Chapman on the national radio show called Our American Stories, which has an audience estimated at close to 3 million. You can find it by going to the show's web site and searching in the archives.
  18. 2 points
    jammen

    Wrestlers unbeaten streaks

    The Askren comment was made before my edit.
  19. 2 points
    jerseywrestling

    1987 NCAA Champions

    1987 NCAA Champions http://www.jerseywrestling.com/news.php?story=1987 NCAA Champions Taking it back to the NCAA champions and medalists of 1987! This class is highlighted by Olympic champion John Smith! 1987 NCAA Champions 118 - Ricky Bonomo, Bloomsburg 126 - Bill Kelly, Iowa State 134 - John Smith, Oklahoma State 142 - Peter Yozzo, Lehigh 150 - Tim Krieger, Iowa State 158 - Stewart Carter, Iowa State 167 - Royce Alger, Iowa 177 - Rico Chiapparelli, Iowa 190 - Eric Voelker, Iowa State 275 - Carlton Haselrig, Pittsburgh-Johnstown Check out all the medalists! https://www.jerseywrestling.com/ncaa_medalists.php?year=1987 If anyone has the champions picture from another year, you can email it to support@jerseywrestling.com, and it will be added to the website! === Like and follow us on Facebook! http://www.facebook.com/jerseywrestling/
  20. 2 points
    MadMardigain

    Abe Lincoln wrestling artwork

    Gables great great grandpa is clearly in the Right side of background
  21. 2 points
    matts1w

    Would you go to dual held today?

    I know this is an internet message board, but If you are going to insult someone's intelligence, try to use correct spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, and capitalization. Having four errors in one small sentence does not drive home your point. Anyway, please elaborate on how one's level of courage negates the rules and trends of microbiology and virus behavior.
  22. 2 points
    Several US wrestlers vs 1980 medal winners Several Russian wrestlers vs 1984 medal winners
  23. 2 points
    Varner vs Yazdani in 2012. Cejudo vs Kudokhov in 2008.
  24. 2 points
    red blades

    Would you go to dual held today?

    The Amish and Hasidim are protected because the rest of us get vaccinated.
  25. 2 points
    matts1w

    Would you go to dual held today?

    I was going to respond and look at your links as I am always happy to consider, but then I saw: "We survived and thrived for hundreds of thousands of years without vaccines. Some of us have faith in the natural order of things..." ...so yeah. Im good. Peace.
  26. 2 points
    Plasmodium

    Michigan

    That is a good lineup
  27. 2 points
    BlueWolverine

    Michigan

    I've seen this as a projected lineup and think it's probably their best bet. I think there's some questions still about where Micic and Myles Amine go, but I'd kind of be surprised if this wasn't it. 125 - Medley / McHenry 133 - Micic 141 - Silva 149 - Storr 157 - Lewan 165 - C. Amine 174 - Massa 184 - M. Amine 197 - Embree / Davison Hwt - Parris
  28. 2 points
    russelscout

    Abe Lincoln as a wrestler

    I can't think of a better sport to prepare you for vampire slaying.
  29. 2 points
    Two wrestlers that impressed me the most in the 76 Games were Tediashvilli and Takada. Teddy was at the end of his prime in Montreal; I saw him again in 78 when he went up to 100 kg. He got pinned, on the second bounce, from E Ger's Buttner on an inside leg laced over-under throw (classic Euro throw). At the medal ceremonies he stepped over the first place level, as if unworthy to touch it, for his placement to receive the silver. Takada was an absolute hammer, besting a very capable Ivanov from the USSR; but also in 78, he got pinned in an incredible move by Anatoly Beloglazov, cross ducking Takada's attempt to counter his Russian tie with a front headlock. Takada waited 12 years before reappearing in Tokyo in 1990, he was still very good (I believe he took 3rd at the same wt-57kg)
  30. 2 points
    Actually, after thinking about this more, I think I learned what I refer to as the "Russian Roll" from here.....may have been earlier though ......Roman Dmietriev vs. Orta....USA vs. USSR.....all I know is, that you it from the illustrated position....not that Ashruliev could have done it on Gable, but.......I hi-crotch, he locks up around the waist, and I catch the wrist on the same side as my hi-c. From there, I sit through and roll him to his back....exposure, maybe even a pin. I think I saw it both places, but it hit home the second time.
  31. 2 points
    Well and this is where Ben deceives himself. He only evaluates the elite. It is hard to look at the Worlds and see where someone may have more natural talent than others because there is a filter at the college level that prevents those without adequate talent from getting to that level, just as there is a filter at the high school level. If you go to a high school or junior high tournament in the middle of nowhere, it is much easier to see that divide in natural talent.
  32. 2 points
    Muzzafar Abdurakhmanov
  33. 2 points
    Once it is widely available, even if people are idiots and chose not to be vaccinated-or if they can't because of a medical reason, then we should still be able to achieve herd immunity and this won't be necessary. I'm pretty sure universities will require it, much like they do MMR, and possibly some workplaces (not sure if the latter is legal), but overall things will likely return practically to normality once the vaccine is out. I don't get why 12 to 24 months of caution/inconvenience while we wait for scientists to develop the vaccine is such a horror to so many people and they'd rather see millions die. With proper caution, all estimates are that we can have a relatively well functioning economy (outside of a couple sectors) and limit total deaths between 100 and 200 K. At this point somewhere between 10 and 30 million have likely been infected in the US. While that is definitely a lot of people, it still leaves the vast majority of people in the country vulnerable. So the best situation is for everyone to keep proceeding with extreme caution until we can distribute the vaccine.
  34. 2 points
    Would not attend a dual, but would watch on Flo! I wear a mask in public always. My plan is to be one of the survivors at the end of this gig - and, more importantly, to not participate in keeping others from reaching that same goal. Per Mad Mardigan, struggle and sacrifice is what wrestlers do to achieve a greater goal. From my perspective - a mask is a very small sacrifice.
  35. 2 points
    matts1w

    Would you go to dual held today?

    In a culture that has accepted mass shootings, high school shootings, and even toddler daycare shootings as the unfortunate price of freedom, why is anyone surprised that a few hundred-thousand dead old and frail people are considered the unfortunate byproducts an active social life and a somewhat satisfactory economy? World War II numbers of casualities seem to be more acceptable than being bored at home and not being able to attend a dual meet. Getting back to work is one thing... Completely and totally open... optional masks...life as it was... that is a completely different animal.
  36. 2 points
    There is a big difference between the Swedish model and a measured approach...."NOW". I agree with the lock downs from most of the country from Mid March to the end of April. Right now, each of us know the risks involved and know who is at risk. We each have the right to choose our next course of action. If you are scared to death because a government funded or a 6 figure network consultant epidemiologist is telling you to be scared or some amateurish, incompetent 6 figure bafoon talking head is as well. Then stay at home.
  37. 2 points
    Some of you may now subscribe, but I noticed the guy who did the arm drag breakdown, has a new video out...
  38. 2 points
    Which makes a lot of sense. I think sometimes very good athletes are offended by the word talent as if it means they got lucky. Not true. Effort and talent can coincide and talent doesn't take away from the sacrifices he has made. However, it doesn't change the fact that some people just are not talented enough to be elite.
  39. 2 points
    AHamilton

    Iowa Mocco Question

    They also agreed not to block any transfer and were men of their words when he transferred to Oklahoma State.
  40. 2 points
    If you get pass the epidemiologists who are looking for government funding vs the ones who aren't, you get two totally different answers. The ones who are not looking for funding are looking for a measured approach to achieving herd immunity without devastating the elderly population, the hospitals and those with underlying health issues. But continuing shut/lock downs extends the crisis. If you take politics and talking heads on tv out of the equation, the measured approach seems like the right one. We know so much more now about covid than we did in March but there are those still out there who think it's still March 20th. Crazy thing is, in hindsight...NCAA'S could've been wrestled.
  41. 2 points
    Billyhoyle

    Would you go to dual held today?

    The only camp that can abide by these restrictions is the Wes Wesley “stall camp.” DF’s camp could as well, but he’d have to skip the cheap tilt session.
  42. 2 points
    Kyle Snyder. He might have been good wrestling from bottom, but he never really used it.
  43. 2 points
    You should probably seek medical attention
  44. 2 points
    Attending this type of event is extremely selfish. Even though you are young/healthy and likely to survive, increasing the spread of the virus will expose people who are vulnerable and likely to be harmed (and can’t stay inside, locked up because of their jobs). Or if you are at risk as well and just want to take the risk, it’s like saying, “I’m fine to drive when drunk/high. I’m willing to take the risk.” This isn’t just about you. I think most businesses should now start to open up again, but need to do so with extreme caution/limits on density. Holding crowded sporting events would be absolutely irresponsible prior to the vaccine being released/widely available (likely early to mid 2021) and would only lead to another lockdown. We’re past the worst of this thing if we all just act responsibly and like adults.
  45. 1 point
    3 brothers - Mikey, Paul, and Tristan Tristan - 3x Champ, 4x Finalist going to ASU. Mikey - 3x Champ went to Northeastern Oklahoma A&M (18'-20'). Placed 3rd this year in NJCAA. Paul - 4x Champ (Top 50 recruit in 13') went to South Dakota State for a year and redshirted (14''). Then NIACC where he was 6th in NJCAA (15') and NQ (16'-didn't compete). Now at Grand View where he wrestled some opens this year.
  46. 1 point
    I went back and looked at a Jim Humphrey tape I had, and that roll finish is very similar....one starts out head up, back straight hips in, and the other starts out with the crackdown. I looked at the Dmetriev roll, it was different than I thought...he had changed to a double...kept the far leg, started with the near elbow, but then it looks like he switched to the far/crosswrist. Pictures I'm posting aren't very good....the film of Dmietriev isn't this bad when it's running. r
  47. 1 point
    1032004

    The "is there talent" debate on Flo

    I agree that "talent exists," but I don't get why Pyles wouldn't admit that it gave people an advantage "to achieve success" or whatever the wording was. Not all people with talent achieve success, but having talent certainly gives you an advantage to having success.
  48. 1 point
    I have never understood why some people feel such animus towards those who chose not to be vaccinated. Moral busybodies? What is it to you and yours? Get your vaccine and you're golden... right? It's not your business if somebody else chooses not get vaccinated. You call them idiots, but the people I know who are for "vaccination choice" are all much better informed about issues surrounding vaccines than the vast majority of people who simply comply, unquestionly.
  49. 1 point
    He has to believe the fiction that talent doesn't exist - otherwise it's hard to tell kids you're coaching that they can accomplish anything thru hard work. We all know it's not true, but if you can get kids to buy in, then you get more out of them. Same way that people convince themselves God exists, so that they behave better...
  50. 1 point
    TripNSweep

    Three gold olympic medal club

    Anyone think Smith could have won again in 96?
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