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Everything posted by VakAttack

  1. Nobody on the Penn State team right now, although I could see Aaron Brooks becoming that guy, or Kerkvleit. Their hammers, I always loved watching wrestle, because of creativity and pace. Ruth, Taylor, Nickal, and Nolf. Zain was not like those guys, but he was brutal and so fun in his own way. I take that back, I like watching Nick Lee on the current team a lot. And Joe Lee often produces from an excitement standpoint. Not a true "rival", but Andonian on Va. Tech...hooboy. Tons of fun.
  2. You guys have this all wrong, this is playing out perfectly for TBar. He can act all mad and snarky now, and then justify it in 4 years by saying "Iowa did it!"
  3. We can bet on both of those things. You feel you have the better wrestler and I feel I have the better wrestler. So what say you? Running bet on each individual match (unless one of us wants to concede that the other is right during the duration of their wrestling careers) plus a separate bet for higher NCAA placement. Bet void if either of them don't come back or if they miss the tournament due to injury.
  4. Yes, I agree it's a factually different scenario, but it's still a precedent that weigh in rules are not hard and fast in all scenarios. It is not factually on point, but it is analogous reasoning to my point. They make allowances for different situations. As long as they made the weight prior to their match, I would be fine with the guys having until then. They're adults. Honestly, I'm very in favor of mat-side weigh ins (separate discussion, I know), which I think would be healthier overall. The weight classes are part of the competition. The timing of the weigh in is not. Anyway, I'm not arguing that we should pick the team arbitrarily. I'm saying this is a rule that didn't need to be enforced in this way that hurts the US chances at the Olympics (potentially; again, Snyder very well could have won). It conferred no advantage on Cox, not scheduled to wrestle until 6:30 P.M or so, to make weight at 8:13 vs. 8:00, and it conferred no disadvantage to his potential opponents.
  5. https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5043287-joey-mckenna-misses-weight-at-junior-worlds I got curious enough to look. Brock Zacherl, BTW. Basically, it appears that Joey went to Senior WTTs and missed 61 kg. They then let him wrestle 65 kg. Then, after he didn't make the senior team, he either petitioned or was automatically granted a wrestleoff with Zacherl at 60 kg (so 1 kg less than he had already missed), who won the JWTT. McKenna had won junior world silver the year before. The wrestle-off was with a weight allowance (apparently at Zacherl's request). Then Joey missed weight again at worlds.
  6. Didn't we let Joey McKenna wrestle for a Junior World Team spot without ever even attempting to make the weight, after he had missed weight (actually missed weight) at a different tournament? I remember something like that. And as I recall he went on to miss weight at World's that year. So mixed bag for me, I guess, but there is a precedent for them not being super hard and fast on the weigh in rules. Not the world's greatest precedent to be sure. Either way, my point is not that my way is the way it has been enforced, just that my way is the way it should be enforced. The goal is to get the best team. I think it's ok to examine context and apply the rules within the context of the situation. And to be fair to me, my way seems to mix our way with the best part of the Russian rules. Lets not also forget we're already codifying into our rules favoritism towards certain wrestlers (the bye to the semis/finals). I would also argue that characterizing Cox's argument that Kevin Jackson being a USAW employee is not weak, it's actually quite strong. It's certainly not J'Den's fault that USAW allows for that kind of arrangement. Regardless, I think it's ok to agree to disagree on this one. And to be fair again, it appears I have the losing hand. I do not believe J'Den will get a wrestle off or any kind of relief from an arbitrator unless there is more evidence than what we are being shown. I just don't think an arbitrator, even if he were inclined to do so, would be able to craft an equitable relief.
  7. "They" are not pulling you down to confuse anything. I've made myself very clear. I think enforcing this rule in this way is cutting off our nose to spite our faces. The rule serves no competitive benefit. It's a rule for it's own sake. If they want to enforce it this way, and clearly they do, that's their right as an organization. I think that's dumb and short-sighted, but that's ok, I'm just one man. The goal of this competition is to figure out who the best Olympic team we could send will be by competing on the mat. We have not, for certain, done that at 97 (although it's possible we did; I am not one who thought it was a foregone conclusion that J'Den was going to beat Kyle) because USAW (and many on this board agree, I would wager much more than agree with me) that fealty to this rule about the weigh in time is more important than making sure we got the best guy. I remember feeling it was close, but I haven't rewatched the match in so long. I feel like I was rooting for Heflin because I found Cox boring, and I tend to root for upperclassmen in those situations to get a title. Well, it appears that J'Den definitively made the weight, just 13ish minutes later than he was required to. So heh ad no size advantage over his competition other than whatever size advantage he normally would have had. No, because we have different values for different rules. Ok, another example: many documents require multiple signatures. If you don't sign in all the places, often that will get overlooked. Not always, but often. The rule that you have to make weight two hours before the start of a competition (again, not J'Den's competition, but just any competition) is not designed for any athletic benefit. It's an administrative rule related to getting the brackets out, and/or an individual athlete safety rule for weight cutting. The first one I don't care about, and the second one is not an issue here. You're right, that's the rule, and they are choosing to follow it, and saying it's more important that this rule is followed than ensuring we have the best 97 kg representative. That's fine. I'm more concerned about making sure we have the best team, but if the process-based rule is more important to you and others, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. Because the weight classes are made for competitive reason, the weigh-in time is not. You're conflating the two to benefit your argument. It's not a major rule violation because the rule does not have a major purpose. It's a rule violation, though. And has been pointed out in many places, this isn't the Olympics, this is the Olympic Team Trials. It seems relatively apparent this was a mistake of carelessness, not an inability to make the weight. Is that likely to be repeated? No. But you're lying if you say this is how this situation would be treated in other countries. In countries with better wrestling results, BTW. I'll tell you, if Sadulaev makes weight at Russian Nationals 15 minutes late, I'm pretty sure he's still going to Tokyo. Yes, when things become issues is when we discuss them. Theoretical discussions about rules applications aren't really movers and shakers on message boards. But I can tell you I have no personal fan allegiance to J'Den Cox. I do not like him any more or less than Kyle Snyder. I just want to have the best team. I would feel this exact way if it was any wrestler, though, not just a top of the podium threat. Anyway, thank you all for coming to my TedTalk.
  8. He said the exact thing you claimed he didn't say. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  9. I agree it would be a policy violation. But it would not have had any effect on competition as near as I can tell. It's an administrative rule, not a substantive/competitive one. As long as he made the weight, which he appears to have, I would have let him wrestle, since there was no competitive effect, where as not making weight would. Similarly, it's illegal to speed in your car and to commit murder, but you don't get punished the same way for it. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  10. The Heflin analogy is way off. That's a within competition rule. One side would have been given an advantage over another in competition. Nobody has yet been able to explain what advantage Cox would have gained over the field in competition. I say that as someone who was strongly pro "let him wrestle" and I have softened on that stance as more data came out....though I think I still would have wanted him to be allowed to wrestle. The broken rule in this case conferred no advantage to J'Den or disadvantage to his opponents.
  11. I'm waiting to hear back from the Hang Loose Hello on this running bet.
  12. It's almost like very few of you people are sports fans...
  13. Not sure if you're joking, gimp, but isn't it widely known that he's deaf in one ear?
  14. Truly...welcome back, internet friend.
  15. What unfair benefit or advantage did Cox gain over his opponents? Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  16. https://t.co/4DzKOWenQi?amp=1 Willie adds some color to what happened here. Platinum needed.
  17. No problem, Dr. O'Connor. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  18. Gilman gave him a little love tap. No big deal. Not that I think you're serious, lol. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  19. Except he lost an international match somewhat recently doing the something similar. Maybe at Pellicone? EDIT: Might have been the Deglane. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  20. Why are you guys engaging with the pastry as if he's a serious person?
  21. No. Losing closely contested matches to roughly equivalent wrestlers is not the same as giving up late leads, losing to inferior opponents, or making huge strategic error in-match. I will give you this, though, Gilman is (and always has been) a better wrestler than Marinelli. However I'm open to the debate if people want to present it. It's not a choke for Gilman to lose to Daton Fix. it's a choke that he's leading late, Daton can not generate any of his own offense, and Gilman shoots in for no reason and gets countered to lose a world team spot. Any way, we've been over this.
  22. https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6956973-what-happened-with-jden-cox-and-what-happens-next?utm_campaign=news&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=article&utm_term=copy.whathappenedtojden&rtid=&coverage_id= Flo has an article that breaks down the time line some. Obviously we now know that Snyder's primary adversary is alliteration.
  23. Ok, so I've now cracked where you went to school, working on identifying you fully. Not sure if you've ever said it, but for some reason this sent me on a detective mission. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  24. Interesting idea. It's tough to see an arbitrator actually doing this (which you nacknowledge) given that Cox only had the bye to the semis, but this is a relatively equitable solution that penalizes Cox without going overboard. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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