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bigmik

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  1. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Flying-Tiger in Iowa/OSU 1998   
    My references to past posts was more of an aside than anything else. I responded to the main point of your posts before that point. If you don't want to address how a very reasonable reading of Tbar's post can lead many honest people to believe that he wasn't feeling slighted or throwing digs, that's on you. If you're saying that your interpretation of the post is easily the most obvious, and mine is unreasonable, then I don't really know what to say other then I think your being delusional.
  2. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from spladle08 in Iowa/OSU 1998   
    Vak, a very plausible reason for bringing up PSU crowds is because the OP asked whether everyone thought if the atmosphere that was present in the 1998 Iowa/OSU dual was a thing of the past. Tbar posted an example of a modern day dual showing that type of atmosphere still exists. It's pretty straightforward Vak. I don't see why anyone would jump to the conclusion that Tbar felt his favorite team was slighted, or that he was throwing digs. I thought it was best to be charitable when interpreting someone else's words. I'm not even trying to cover for an "obvious" dig by Tbar either, I wouldn't have ever guessed that anyone would find anything wrong with his first post here. I bet the majority see it my way.
     
    As for forum police, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Feel free to say whatever you say. I'm not trying stop you, or anyone else, from voicing their opinion. I'd just like for people to be consistent across the board. Vak, I'm sure I could go through many of your past,innocent posts and reinterpret it as a slight/dig if I wanted to, and I would have just as much evidence for my interpretation as you do for your interpretation of Tbar's posts. I'm sure you wouldn't like me doing that. I'm guessing it would somehow be different if I did the same. What's funny though is that you used to do the same thing to me during the Metcalf era. The accusations of anti Iowa bias and hate because someone didn't hold Metcalf in as high of a regard as you did were downright irrational. Luckily you've improved some since then.
     
    I'm a strong advocate of free Speech. Say whatever you like sir.
  3. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from TBar1977 in Iowa/OSU 1998   
    My references to past posts was more of an aside than anything else. I responded to the main point of your posts before that point. If you don't want to address how a very reasonable reading of Tbar's post can lead many honest people to believe that he wasn't feeling slighted or throwing digs, that's on you. If you're saying that your interpretation of the post is easily the most obvious, and mine is unreasonable, then I don't really know what to say other then I think your being delusional.
  4. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from spladle08 in Iowa/OSU 1998   
    I think you are reading too much into Tbar's posts. I saw no "dig" at Iowa, nor did I see him reacting to a perceived slight against PSU.
  5. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from TBar1977 in Iowa/OSU 1998   
    I think you are reading too much into Tbar's posts. I saw no "dig" at Iowa, nor did I see him reacting to a perceived slight against PSU.
  6. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from bigtenfan in How good is Jason Nolf?   
    If you're familiar with my past posts, you know that I believe that Martinez made Nolf look better than he actually was last year, and if he wrestled up to his potential, would have beaten Nolf comfortably. I like Nolf, but outside of his pace, I haven't seen anything close to great wrestling from him so far. I wasn't surprised at all to see him barely edge past Massa, and lose to a high school wrestler, Mark Hall, this off season. Nolf may end up being a great wrestler, but as of right now, I think many are overestimating his wrestling prowess because they are suffering from the "David Taylor syndrome". The condition in which one regularly places wrestlers on a higher pedestal than other more accomplished wrestlers due to wide margin of victories over lower tier competition. Of course this condition was widespread on this board when Kyle Dake was outperforming Taylor on the mat, but was still somehow behind him because Taylor looked like a million bucks against low AA finishers. I think we are seeing the same thing today. I saw someone predicted that Nolf would beat Martinez "like a red-headed stepchild" somewhere on the boards. I've heard similar statements from others elsewhere. I'm on the other end of the spectrum because I'm not sure how anyone can clearly say that Nolf is a better wrestler than a guy like Dein Heil. I believe p4p Heil would have beaten Nolf  last year and would have presented just as big of a challenge to Martinez.
     
    So...how good is Nolf?
     
    Thread roll call: (Please leave me a message guys)
     
    MSU158
    Vakattack
    Willie
    HoundedHawk
    WildTurkey44
    Tbarr1977
    FlyingTiger
    Wrestlingnerd
    HurricaneWrestling
    Cletus Tucker
    LordNelson
    BigTimeFan
    Old Marine 
     
    Others not on the list, please feel free to contribute to this topic.
  7. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from boconnell in Pico vs. Zain (Folkstyle)   
    Zain only had one win on the winner's side bracket at the trials. The win was against Green who went 0-2. Zain looked okay, but matches in the consolation bracket of the OTT are usually very flimsy pieces of evidence to make a strong case off of given the fact that many wrestlers feel they really have nothing to wrestle for.
  8. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from xander in "Inevitable" Penn State dynasty nipped in the bud?   
    Feel free to respond. The thread roll call list is for the people that I personally want to hear from, but everyone else is welcome to contribute.
  9. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in "Inevitable" Penn State dynasty nipped in the bud?   
    Wrestlingnerd, you make a lot of valid points, but Lee's success at Junior Worlds isn't necessarily as great of an indicator as it may seem. Winning at the "baby weights" (not a shot but a common nickname for these weight classes) could mean a number of things. It may be significant, it may not be. Even the fact that Lee was young for the field doesn't necessarily increase the quality of the accomplishment to a significant degree. Many of the wrestlers that he's facing may be around the same age as he is and/or have even less experience than he does in actual competition. I wouldn't be surprised if Lee had more/far more FS experience than most of the guys in the bracket. A lot of times, even in some tough countries they struggle to find wrestlers to fill these weight classes, so they must resort to finding any little guy they can and try to make a wrestler out of him. Similar to how it is in the states when a HS coach goes searching the school hallways looking for small guys to fill a spot so that he won't give up a forfeit. In other words, it's not uncommon to find guys who are very green at the Junior/Cadet Worlds at the lightest weights. You can usually get a much better read of the significance of an accomplishment at the middle and upper weights. At the lowest weights, it's a relative crap shoot. I've seen cases where the Junior guys cannot beat the Cadet wrestlers at the next weight up, or even the same weight class.
     
    It's somewhat similar to the way that in the U.S. the freshman/sophmore nationals at 103/106 would often times be a tougher tournament than the junior/senior nationals at the same weight class. Of course this could happen at any weight class in any given year, but in the upper/middle weights that's maybe once in a blue moon whereas in the very low weights it's very common. Long story short, considering history there's a pretty good chance that Lee would have had a tougher time winning the Cadet worlds at 55kg (121) than winning Junior Worlds at 50kg. I'm not exactly sure what you have in mind when you say that Lee's win definitely offsets what happened against Fix at the nationals, but there is a certain sense in which Lee's accomplishment may not fulfill the meaning of that term. 
  10. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Tofurky in Spencer Lee commits to...   
    Isn't Iowa favored to win next year? Their line up looks pretty good to me.
  11. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Hokierama in Cael Sanderson wins Intermat Wrestlings COTY award   
    I believe most had NCstate finishing above 11th at the NCAA championships. I didn't see many picking PSU to score as many points as they did at NCAAs. So I believe Cael wins in team performance above expectations too. I see no good argument for Popolizio to win this award.
  12. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in Dake vs Taylor --- Round X   
    I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Dake and Taylor both mentioned that one of the reasons for moving up was because of the way the World/Olympic trials finals are set up. Specifically having to go through a mini tournament and then wrestle the champion who's rested all day in a best of 3 series. It was the system that caused the move, not Burroughs specifically iirc.
     
    In Taylor's case, he was also cutting a lot of weight to get to 74kg. I don't want to say he was "running" from anyone especially since he had plausible deniability. He could have ran before he took so many losses but he didn't. I'm from an older generation and accusing someone of cowardice is a very serious charge. That's a type of accusation that would only be made with solid proof, or a willingness to engage in a fight with the one accused, if he took offense "back in the day". 
  13. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Tofurky in It's the coach   
    Do you have old HS rankings for these guys? I'm not sure what the exact definition of blue chip is, but I think many would consider the Brands bros and Ironside to be in that category.
  14. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in Dieringer Wins Hodge   
    Yes, but they have a very high degree of overlap in some instances, especially on the feet. Your analogy is true to a point, but it breaks down in a few key areas.. For starters, you're treating elite FS wrestling with collegiate folkstyle wrestling like they are the same thing. They aren't. Generally speaking, as a society we view each professional sport as being on the same level. That is, we treat the #1 Racquetball player in the world as being equally accomplished as the #1 Tennis player in the world. There are pretty good reasons for this, since to be the best in the world you usually have to be training full time with the best coaches at the highest competition level. That includes all grown men who are still capable of competing at a high level, not just the ones who have one of their 4 years of eligibility left and are most likely under 24 years old. The reasons for treating the accomplishment of being #1 in racquetball and tennis equivalent don't hold for elite freestyle and folkstyle wrestling. One accomplishment (ncaa champion) is a lesser accomplishment than the other (world or Olympic champion).
     
    So you say "they are different sports with different competition and criteria". To be more precise, you could say they are different,yet very similar sports in key areas (especially on the feet were most points are scored at the elite level in both styles) with one sport; freestyle, having far superior competition and a much higher level of skill needed to get to the very top. This is something that is recognized by all of the greats of the sport in this country. Whether it be Brands, Smith, Cael, Gable, etc. they'll all tell you that winning at the Olympics and Worlds proves that you are the best in the world. They'll also tell you the same is not true for the NCAAs. They are well aware of the differences between the sports, but know that the sports are similar enough to  rightfully say that one requires a greater level of skill and a higher level of technique to get to the #1 spot.
     
     
     
     Like I mentioned above, the comparison using world class tennis/racquetball does not hold well when comparing world class freestyle wrestling and collegiate folkstyle wrestling. A far better example would be comparing amateur boxing to professional boxing. Although the sports are very similar, they do have various differences in rules which effect things like scoring and strategy. Still, they have a great amount of overlap so one can reasonably compare the two and consider professional boxing to be a higher level of boxing, not merely just a different type of boxing that is done at the same level. 
     
    If the #1 ranked amateur boxer goes into the professional ranks and claims the #1 spot at that level, why couldn't you use that as a line of evidence to show just how good that boxer is in comparison to his peers at the amateur boxing level? Especially if his peers at the amateur level tried to accomplish the same thing but weren't capable of doing it? Skills like footwork, timing, head movement, counter punching, setting traps, walking an opponent down, punching while moving laterally and backwards, in professional boxing are more advanced than amateur olympic style boxing. If an amateur olympic boxer is able to beat all the pros at their game while his peers can't, that shows his skill level is of a higher quality. This level of skill may have been hidden from the untrained eye. Sometimes the degree of skill and talent cannot be shown if the level of competition is not high enough.
     
    EX. Imagine if Zain Retherford and Alec Pantaleo both wrestled through a Vermont High school state championship bracket. What would likely happen? They both would probably breeze through the bracket picking apart all of their competition on the way to the championsip. They'd likely score on every shot, score on every turn attempt, and ultimately pin every opponent without any trouble whatsoever. If you never saw the two compete above this level of competition, you may be fooled into thinking they are both equally skilled wrestlers. After all, they both are getting through the competition without breaking a sweat. How could you tell the difference? Now put these guys through a season of D1 wrestling and on the mat with each other, and the difference in skill between the two is very clear to see. The similar level of skill that you thought you saw before was actually an illusion.
     
    It's possible that the same thing may be happening right now in D1 with Kyle Snyder and his peers. Kyle Snyder is the amateur boxer from the earlier example who was able to beat the pros. There were a lot of D1 ncaa champions who were able to dominate on their feet in college, but couldn't do the same against the top wrestlers on the senior level until years after they graduated. Snyder was able to beat the senior level guys in the U.S. and the top guys from the rest of the world as a 19 year old. This proves that Snyder has very rare skills on his feet. Who else has proven that in D1? Retherford hasn't done that yet. Last time we saw Retherford wrestle one of the best on the senior level, he was dominated. The last time being just 5 months before the start of the season. Retherford goes from being handily beat to being called "the most improved wrestler from neutral" one month into the season. He's able to make everyone at 149 look bad, but was made to look bad shortly before the season. Well, maybe Retherford has improved greatly in 5 months, that is a possibility. Maybe he's surpassed Pico and some of the other top guys on the senior freestyle ladder. With that said, he hasn't proven that yet. Snyder has proven to be among the best in the world before the start of the season and during the season when he went overseas for a few tournaments. Snyder has shown that he's on par with the very best not just the best on a significantly lower level. If Snyder continues to show this by handily beating Jake Varner or whoever else makes the finals at trials like he did last year, while others aren't able to come close to this level of success, that shows that he's on another level on his feet and that can rightfully be used as evidence about how good he is in comparison to his peers on the D1 level. 
     
    To try to put all of his freestyle success in the "in another style therefore irrelevant" box is misguided.  There is a great degree of overlap between the styles. The single leg TD is still the number one scoring attack. Most of the same wrestling skills are needed to score consistently: setups, creating angles, positioning, footwork, leverage, etc. To take down the top wrestlers on the senior level requires a higher level of skill than taking down the average college kid. Yes, there are differences but that doesn't negate all of the similarities. Also, the tennis/racquetball point where you mention that no one would rank Federer #1 in tennis after he won a world racquetball title breaks down when you consider that Snyder is already the #1 ranked tennis player (following your analogy). It's not like Snyder is being put at the top of the folkstyle ladder while having never wrestled a single folkstyle match in D1 ever. Putting Snyder at the top of folk is not the same thing as putting a guy like Henry Cejudo at the top. Snyder is a two time finalist and one time NCAA champion. He's already a champion. This is not like the old Cejudo threads were it was all guesswork. We know for sure that Snyder knows how to translate all of the skills he's acquired wrestling the best to folkstyle wrestling. He's privy to all of the counters and "funk" that the average elite FS wrestler may have trouble defending.
  15. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in Hodge talk   
    "The WIN Magazine/Culture House Dan Hodge Trophy, presented by ASICS, is considered the Heisman Trophy for amateur wrestling and has been presented to the nation’s best wrestler since 1995."
     
     
    LostNumber, this is a quote from a WIN article on the Hodge from 2014 or 2015. It says the award is presented to the 'best' wrestler, not "most dominant". Interesting. I wonder how many of the Hodge voters thought Varner was not the best wrestler in 2010?
  16. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in Hodge talk   
    Everyone was under the impression that you had to be undefeated to win the Hodge. I, like many, believe that being defeated by pin is more than enough to disqualify a season from being classified as dominant. I believe that Gavin was more "dominant" than Metcalf that year.
  17. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in How would Retherford have done in '08?   
    There was no defending champ in that weight class. Gillespie moved up to 157 that year. Jordan Burroughs wasn't what he was today, back then. Burroughs didn't AA the previous year. Neither did Caldwell or Jenkins. They were first time AAs. Who were the returning AAs outside of Palmer, Schlatter, O'Connor, and Lang? I always thought this weight was overrated. I believe the weight was tougher in 2006 when Schlatter won. I think we should judge the weight based on what those guys were at the time rather than what they would become in the future.
  18. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Alwayswrestling in Folkstyle who wins Pico vs Retherford?   
    Yes, but any type of stance or engagement that Retherford uses is still vulnerable to being taken down by clean, crisp attacks. I believe Retherford was taken down this year, wasn't he? It's not as if Retherford has discovered an impenetrable defense that no one has seen before. Also Pico has folkstyle experience, he's aware of the various types of counters and strategies that can be employed in a match.
     
    I also think you take for granted that Retherford would be able to ride and punish Pico. I don't see that at all as a given. I'm not ruling it out, but I think it's far from guaranteed. Pico just may be able to escape from bottom.  I'm not saying I'm picking or leaning towards Pico though. This may be the type of match where Pico has to use some tactics and strategies of his own, and I think that's the weakest part of his game. He's often one track minded and makes little mistakes at inopportune moments. 
  19. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Alwayswrestling in Folkstyle who wins Pico vs Retherford?   
    Results between past folkstyle matches don't always translate cleanly from one match to another. And again, the Collica wins were one isolated incident. Collica could potentially wrestle Sorenson for an hour in freestyle and not score another td. Being 'hot' and pulling upsets in one tournament that aren't duplicated later in the season also happens in folkstyle
     
    There's a big difference between a single match, and a five match series wrestled over the course of a year. The sample size in the latter gives much more detailed information. Zain threw his whole repertoire of high level, high percentage attacks at Pico over the course of 5 matches and came up short. Although the crossover results aren't perfect, I think we have every reason to believe that Pico would of had the edge from their feet even if they wrestled a folkstyle match in June 2015.
  20. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from HurricaneWrestling in How would Retherford have done in '08?   
    There was no defending champ in that weight class. Gillespie moved up to 157 that year. Jordan Burroughs wasn't what he was today, back then. Burroughs didn't AA the previous year. Neither did Caldwell or Jenkins. They were first time AAs. Who were the returning AAs outside of Palmer, Schlatter, O'Connor, and Lang? I always thought this weight was overrated. I believe the weight was tougher in 2006 when Schlatter won. I think we should judge the weight based on what those guys were at the time rather than what they would become in the future.
  21. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from pawrestler in How would Retherford have done in '08?   
    There was no defending champ in that weight class. Gillespie moved up to 157 that year. Jordan Burroughs wasn't what he was today, back then. Burroughs didn't AA the previous year. Neither did Caldwell or Jenkins. They were first time AAs. Who were the returning AAs outside of Palmer, Schlatter, O'Connor, and Lang? I always thought this weight was overrated. I believe the weight was tougher in 2006 when Schlatter won. I think we should judge the weight based on what those guys were at the time rather than what they would become in the future.
  22. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from tightwaist in How would Retherford have done in '08?   
    There was no defending champ in that weight class. Gillespie moved up to 157 that year. Jordan Burroughs wasn't what he was today, back then. Burroughs didn't AA the previous year. Neither did Caldwell or Jenkins. They were first time AAs. Who were the returning AAs outside of Palmer, Schlatter, O'Connor, and Lang? I always thought this weight was overrated. I believe the weight was tougher in 2006 when Schlatter won. I think we should judge the weight based on what those guys were at the time rather than what they would become in the future.
  23. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from takedownartist in Today's Defensive Wrestling v/s Old School Defensive Wrestling   
    I think you are greatly overrating today's wrestlers. I would say most collegiate wrestlers' today are likewise absolutely atrocious in many aspects of the sport. The fact that Nolf is running through kids the way he is doing is evidence of this. Same thing with Retherford. Wrestling at a high pace with a mean attitude gets you a lot further than it should at this level imo. I actually thought that D1 wrestling would be further along than this in 2016. 
  24. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Buckeyebison in What was Gilman thinking?   
    Vak, I think this is what he was going for. He was very off, but he tried. I think I heard from one of the Iowa guys from years past that Sergei Beloglasov was the international wrestler that Tom and/or Terry Brands admired the most ever.
     
    Check this out:
     

     
     
    Watch and learn something folks!
  25. Like
    bigmik got a reaction from Cletus_Tucker in Match of the year? (down goes Nolf)   
    Martinez looked very bad in this match imo. It appears that the first match up really weighed heavily on the conscience of Martinez and the Illini coaching staff. During the match, especially at the end of periods and stops in action, my eyes were going back and forth between Martinez and Perry. The way Perry was coaching Martinez up was very interesting to see. It wasn't what you usually see from him in the corner when Martinez is wrestling. He looked like he was coaching Martinez in such a way as to keep his spirits up and prevent him from giving in or giving up. As if Martinez was on the verge of cracking and Perry felt that his encouraging gestures were actually necessary for Martinez to keep pushing forward. This wasn't the usual clap of the hands and a quick admonishment to stay focused; it looked more like mini celebrations at each stoppage. All jokes aside, I'd liken Perry's behavior to a personal trainer who was working with a massively overweight person for the first time. One who knows that they have to be overly enthusiastic to will their client through even one set of an exercise. One who knows that they have to encourage every little "success" throughout the workout so that their client doesn't 'throw in the towel' prematurely. That's what Perry looked like to me. I don't focus on Perry too much throughout Illinois matches, but I haven't seen this before. I'm assuming Perry wouldn't have coached this way unless he truly believed that Martinez needed it throughout the match.
     
    I thought Martinez was better than this going into the season. I thought that he would take his skills to a higher level than this, but I thought wrongly I guess. For someone who's interested in competing in the 2016 Olympics, this shouldn't have been so difficult. He's being confounded by Nolf, and this is confounding me! I have nothing against young Nolf, but he isn't doing anything special. Outside of keeping pressure on his opponents, he isn't doing anything great technically, tactically, positionally, etc. There are a lot of holes in his game. I know there are some who might want to argue with that, but I'm not interested in that discussion at the moment. You can't convince me that anything we're seeing from Nolf is anywhere near great. I know better. I think what we are seeing here is the same type of 'illusion' that we're seeing with Retherford's neutral wrestling. I'm sure he looks phenomenal to some, but remember what happens everytime he wrestles Pico (who's maybe 5th or 6th on the senior ladder?). The constant hands to the face in those matches are probably a symptom of frustration more than anything else. Overly physical/ borderline illegal wrestling are often times a result of not being able to open up your opponent any other way. Look for instance at how physical matches between practice room partners end up getting and the fights that usually result at some point from it.
     
    With all that said, Nolf is young and I expect him to get much better. I hear he has a great attitude and is very coachable. I still don't count him out at ncaas. He could very well turn around this result. I'm more focused on Martinez however, he's older and should be wrestling better than this. Then again, maybe this is on the Illinois coaching staff. I'd be very interested in knowing how often they drill high quality technique.
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