Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Tofurky

  1. I don't think is true. The rules are different for plenty of sports. In Olympic mens tennis for example, they only play best of 3 sets until the finals. This is a response that Stan gave last year on this board (see thread title, date and time).
  2. Fight shorts... ugh. I am all for allying with MMA, but is a board short necessary? Again, to go back to another thread, why not an underarmour shirt and vale tudo short/rash guard combo? As to the color of the mats, similar to Jaroslav, I scratched my head on that one, but that's a minor concern I would think. Bracketing is both good and bad. Good in that the true wrestling nerds will be able to more accurately predict medalists. Bad in that the possibility of a very few of the same old countries making the medal rounds is quite likely.
  3. I'm fine with it. Guys who the time and work in to making the tournament/medal stand in DI aren't trying to find the easiest way to glory. There usually is a lot more to it at that point than simply wanting to be an AA/Champ in a division other than DI.
  4. It will be an experiment that's for sure. But I can almost promise it won't be any more tiring than a 7-min collegiate folkstyle match. The best UFC fighters in the world have told me that 7 minutes on the college mat is more tiring than 15 minutes in the cage. I think this one answers itself. How can you "almost promise [a nine minute match] won't be any more tiring than a 7-min collegiate folkstyle match"? If a seven minute college match is exhausting, which we all know it can be with the right amount of action involved,--a nine minute match, in most cases, is going to culminate with both guys standing around or tying up with little to no intention of scoring for the few minutes, waiting for the final whistle to blow. To me, "nine" seems like such a nostalgic number because it had been law more than two decades ago. Speaking for myself alone, I'm more interested in who the better wrestler is, not who is the best conditioned of the two. I firmly believe that this can be resolved in a six minute match, split in half.
  5. Adam, Thanks for your reply. Your time is appreciated. That said, what is your involvement in AGON? Is there a development department that intends to seek out private funding to make this "professional"? "A safety net for all the loss we've experienced on the World/Olympic level" how? Are there other nations' governing bodies who are being pitched this idea and enthusiastically supporting the concept? That said, how do the AGON folks intend to market this any better than what RPW tried to do with an entire season on television time no less? How often does the organization plan on doing analysis of its events? I ask this because I am highly suspect that the fans are going to see an explosion of action during the seventh and eighth minutes of matches and most will be left checking their watches to see how much longer the match will last. My guess is that the third period, by and large, will net, on average, two points. Of course there will be exceptions, but analysis here will be crucial in determining if nine minutes was overshooting the mark and boring the $#!* out of the fans or if it was spot on and we're seeing a lot of Tommy Brands/Joey Gilbert-type affairs that have scoring from start to finish. I've read about half the thread and there are some very good ideas going on here. I'll be keeping an eye on it as it goes along.
  6. I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if my questions have been answered in some of the lengthy discussion preceding this post. What is the goal of AGON? Do you want to eliminate FILA and change international wrestling altogether? Do you hope to have some influence with the NCAA and NHSCA to potentially amend some rules down the line? Does this intend to be something more like Real Pro Wrestling? What is going to be accomplished in nine minutes that cannot be accomplished in six minutes? Is a nine minute match ultimately about who has the best lungs or who is the best wrestler come the eighth minute? If I am the attacking wrestler, why would I be penalized by stepping out during my move while my opponent is attempting to flee/defend my hold? I could see this being an easy call with kids as the finishes are fairly quick and easy, but on the highest levels every guy is fighting for every inch and finishing a shot is nowhere near as simple or smooth. What will be the size of the wrestling area? Are you going by High school, college or Iowa Hawkeye rules? Why no reward for feet to danger maneuvers? I like a lot of what is being proposed here, but I am also confused by some of it, too. That's coming from a guy who watches wrestling on a nearly daily basis.
  7. How big is Askren's following? I ask because I seem to remember White being adamant about not allowing Kimbo Slice to be part of the UFC, but because he had become such an internet sensation through his fighting and being used a bodyguard in the porn industry, there was almost no way White could continue to say no because of the revenue he would potentially generate and I am guessing did, ultimately. I can't imagine that Askren offers anything remotely the same to the Zuffa organization. Am I wrong about that?
  8. Oh right I forgot, wrestling has cornered the market on hard work. Athletes in other sports just waltz into competition without much hard work. Guys like Phelps won all those golds not by training 10 hours per day but rather he just showed up to the pool at the olympics. Silly me, I also forgot that wrestling has also cornered the market on mental toughness and physical exhaustion. No other sport comes close to wrestling in terms of mental toughness or physical exhaustion, say for example elite level triathlons. A 2.4 mile swim + 112 mile bike race + 26 mile marathon run is nothing compared to a 6 minute wrestling match. Not even that, but training for Ironman is probably a piece of cake compared to wrestling practice. While we're still at, the average wrestling match lasts 6 minutes, sometimes way less, like under a minute if there's a pin, with a minimum of about 30 minutes rest between matches. There is also injury timeouts and water on the side of the mat. How tough is that? I mean compared to ultramarathoners who run for hours non-stop. This might be the most honest reply DF has ever given on these boards and I enjoyed it. Flat out, this thread alone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the incredible Napoleon Complex that many fans/current and former members of this sport have.
  9. I was going to say water polo and the elite levels of MMA, of which wrestling is one discipline among many.
  10. If Ben were still wrestling only, I'd watch. However, I can't see Kid Dynamite, at this point in his career and how well he did against Burroughs after adjusting for the second match, giving way to a guy who hasn't focused on the sport in years. That's taking nothing away from Ben as a wrestler, but he was no Cael Sanderson and we saw what a layoff did for Cael that last go round.
  11. I would think that every college head coach in the country would have been contacted about this, but I know that has yet to happen. Heck, posters should have been made and mailed to these same coaches for promotion, at the very least.
  12. Local "old timers" tournament in 1998. I was an "ancient" 23 years old at the time and I had been out drinking and hanging with "loose" women the night before when my friend called early that morning and asked if we were still going. I had forgotten about the tournament, but somehow I had it in my mind that it would be a good idea, so I went. I arrived, waited for my friend, walked in and watched some older guy (I'm guessing about 40 or so then) weigh in before me. He stepped off the scale and literally screamed, "YEAH! I cut 20 pounds for this!" My first thought was not only was this guy freakin' nuts, but this might not have been such a good idea. Another guy, the oldest at the tournament by far, looked like a long shore man, straight with the navy peacoat and winter cap, carrying his gear in a paper bag that was all greased up like it had french fries in it. I wish I were making that up, because I remember feeling slightly nauseous when thinking about what could be in that bag. My first match I go out and quickly take down this small muscled up kid as we're going off the mat. We reset, he goes to hit a stand up and the back of his head plows me in the nose. I'm bleeding profusely and that was the beginning of the end for me. Between the countless stoppages for blood time, clean up, swallowing I don't know how much blood, this guy is railing me and wins by a major. In fact, I believe that two might have been the only offensive points I scored in the whole match. In my second and final match, I go up against a guy a year younger than me from my high school. I'm not into it at this point and he's pounding me. I'm bleeding again, my lungs are burning, I'm sweating out whatever I had been drinking from the night before and think to myself, "what am I trying to prove?" At some point, I'm on bottom, again, and he throws in this weak half (his fingers barely past my arm pit) and I just go with it. On my way over I hear him say, "what the f*@#?" I look at the ref, he looks at me, looks at my opponent and then slaps the mat. I get up and my old teammate says, "are you okay?" And I said, "I am now," and that was it. Since then I've wrestled live in practices and against other guys, but never for the aspiration of winning a reward. I learned that I did much better when nothing was at stake. Come to think of it, that probably "summed up [my] entire sorry career in once sentence", as was once stated in the movie Rudy. **##$$
  13. I don't agree with the notion that sports such as cycling and swimming are moving towards singlets. Swimming moved to a one piece body piece to cut down on natural drag in the water and then, I believe, it was banned shortly after being used. Cycling shirts, by and large, still have sleeves and v neck lines, but they're not a one piece uniform. As Jason Bryant mentioned, it is an issue for kids, especially in the U.S. If you're not a physically fit kid come junior high, you better believe that comments will be made. Hell, I had kids who were teammates of some un-athletic kids who would poke fun at their "man boobs" in a singlet or how skinny another guy was. Exposing yourself at that age is not easy in modern culture.
  14. I coached kids wrestling for four years and a lot of them didn't want to wrestle because of the singlet. Most of those kids asked if they could wear shorts and t-shirt, and some even quit as a result of things relating to body image. I can't speak to your experiences, but it sounds as though yours were uncommon, especially for boys between the ages of 12 and 16.
  15. That is ridiculous. You just completely made that up that singlets have anything to do with wrestling in the Olympics. If you remember we tried the two piece doublet, barely anyone liked it and it went away with a whimper. People like the singlet, if they didn't, it would be long gone by now. I agree that shorts alone is a bad idea. It wasn't all that popular when Real Pro Wrestling was around and I cannot imagine it would be now. In terms of rash guard, with MMA helping to promote more grappling styles, not to mention companies such as Under Armour exploding in popularity in the last decade or so, people are all over that stuff. Double Sports' "doublet" came in just ahead the curve. Had it been introduced a year ago, maybe two, I bet you would have seen more calls to have it included in the sport. It's been almost eight years since this: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/fashi ... d=all&_r=0. Not all people like the singlet and the wrestling leadership in the United States is notoriously conservative on a lot of issues. The singlet being one of them. I can see on the international level it being an issue, as olddirty explained above, but we're not working with a lot of gut wrenches in the U.S. and the opportunity for advances in material design is ample.
  16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Will ... ensive_end) - sixth as a sophomore at Romeoville and then the state champ at Bolingbrook (same school district) as a junior. Was supposedly going to go to University of Miami to play football, so he skipped wrestling his senior year of high school.
  17. Garrett Goebel, formerly of Ohio State and now with the St. Louis Rams, was a two-time Illinois state champ, four-time place winner and made the finals of Ironman three times, winning it twice.
  18. 1986 Goodwill - 1986 World Cup - 1986 Worlds - 1987 Worlds - since I can post only three links at a time, type Metzger Fadzaev into youtube and you'll find it.
  19. Has Stan given up on any sort of discourse here? i've not looked in other threads, but this one seems ripe for his commentary.
  20. I have to wonder what happened to the development of this idea since the utter failure of the Double Sport doublet some years ago. Is it the prevalence of Under Armour or the growth of MMA and how it's used there?
  21. Let me ask some of you this: what is your take on the "desire" or "necessity" for many kids clubs to be run like college programs? Do you think the need by high school coaches and some parents is a bit much on kids now where many kids are asked or forced to become one sport athletes by the time they are in seventh or eighth grade and certainly no later than freshman year in most cases? Wrestling was always my worst sport. I was 100-times the football player and 50-times the baseball player than I ever was a wrestler. I admit, as a father of five, I long for the days of my youth where kids played multiple sports and the emphasis was for kids to try many things all the way through high school; be well-rounded and, above all else, have fun. There seems to be a big rush for kids to make big(ger) life decisions at a much younger age these days and the importance placed on youth titles is completely lost on me.
  22. Ellis Coleman and his old brother, Lillashawn, wrestled as kids, first for the Chicago Crusaders kids club (Eric Wetzel was his coach) and then the Little Huskies in Oak Park (Mike Powell), where they ended up attending high school. Both Ellis and his brother are supremely athletic and gifted athletes.
  23. Nice point of view, Matt. Actually, you were the guy I had in mind for a reply when I put this one down as I recently saw one of your grappling videos on youtube where you were wearing rash guard. Anyway, what about revisiting it for American Folk? It seems to be what most guys workout with in the room, so why not a transition to the competition mats? No one need worry about slipping a gut at the youth, high school or collegiate levels and it could be a great remedy to the image issues that constantly plague the sport. Matt, as an aside, are you able to get to a gut with relatively dry rash guard shirts or does it remain almost impossible even then?
  24. I've not ever competed in a grappling/no gi tournament of any sort, so I am wondering what people who have think about the rash guard shirt/mma shorts or rash guard shirt/vale tudo shorts combo in relation to your ability to get to your ties as opposed to a singlet, issues with them coming untucked, etc. I've watched some of the Grappling WTT videos and other grappling videos and it rarely seems to be an issue, but I hear a lot of people complaining about it. Thoughts? Can a "doublet," for lack of a better term, really work in wrestling? Why or why not? What would improve a "doublet" or should the idea be scrapped altogether?
  • Create New...