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Everything posted by Tofurky

  1. I've not seen or heard about his birth date. Is/was he 20-years-old and winning a state title? According to the Arizona Interscholastic Association by-laws: AGE LIMIT / BIRTH RECORD RULE 15.6.1 Age Limits – If a student becomes 19 years of age after September 1, he/she is eligible to compete for the remainder of that school year. If he/she becomes 19 years of age on or before September 1, he/she is not eligible for any part of that school year. 15.6.2 Birth Records – Acceptable record of birth shall be submitted before a student’s name is placed on an eligibility list for varsity participation. Acceptable records shall be: Certified Birth Certificate – One certified by the appropriate state agency. Acceptable Substitutes – Hospital Certificate of Birth with seal or appropriate signature; a Department of Commerce Certificate; a Bureau of Immigration Certificate; a Department of Justice Certificate; a Certificate of Indian Blood signed and sealed by the Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs; a birth registration card issued by the State of Arizona Department of Health Services with seal; or a passport issued to a United States citizen (born in the United States or a naturalized citizen) by the State Department of the United States. Verification of Birth – Verification of birth may also be established when three reputable sources of information acceptable to the AIA Executive Board all agree as to the date of birth (i.e., school records, immunization records, etc.). Such documents must demonstrate utilization of the birth date over an extended period of time (i.e., each document should reflect issue dates encompassing a number of years). How could he have competed for a state title in Arizona with that being the case, especially if you continue to suggest he was already 20-years-old come Fargo after his senior year in high school? It doesn't add up. Every single 16-year-old is at X level of physical maturity and strength, while every single 20-year-old is at a higher level of physical maturity and strength, simply because of age? Is that what you're selling here? Was he being turned to his back at frosh/soph tournaments? I have only an English degree, but it served me well enough in reading and comprehension for my science requirements to earn As, and realize that your story isn't adding up here.
  2. What does his age have to do with the discussion? Correct me if I am wrong here, but Echemendia did not train any U.S. collegiate style whatsoever before his journey to the United States, right? You're suggesting that he will walk away after four or five years of college, having worked with Ryan, Jaggers, Stieber, Dlagnev, Jordan, and others, having not improved his ability to get out on bottom from what it is currently? Your statement is pretty dubious, don't you think?
  3. I have to wonder if he chose Ohio State because Tommy Ryan and friends allowed Kyle Snyder to wrestle U.S. scholastic/collegiate style in meets, while practicing Freestyle full-time and competing internationally during the college season . Snyderman seemed to manage an okay career by doing that. I wonder if Dresser and company weren't interested in allowing for that. In regards to AE being put down in college, does anyone really believe this will not be one of the first things addressed by the coaching staff once practices resume?
  4. That's right! I remember reading about that. Was that dude a professional referee back home?
  5. Wasnt this one of the many calls made by that Eastern European ref at the table who seemed to always go for the Eastern European wrestlers? Right after Rion this and other boards were on fire with accusations of corruption and taking money by that guy.
  6. www.forbes.com/sites/michaelhorn/2018/12/13/will-half-of-all-colleges-really-close-in-the-next-decade/amp/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/expert-predicts-25-percent-of-colleges-will-fail-in-the-next-20-years-2019-08-31/ COVID-19 is going to accelerate closings for a lot of these smaller colleges.
  7. True, but that does not make small private schools automatically affordable. For students who don't excel in the classroom before moving to said four year school, they will be left holding some steep tuition and fee loans at the end of their college days because the internal scholarships they receive will be small in relation to the overall cost of tuition, room and board. A significant number of small privates from across the country struggle with raising the required money to offset those internal scholarships given by the schools to attract more students. There have been some recent articles sounding the alarm, if you will, that this is a growing trend. COVID-19 might expose that far sooner than some prognosticators think. As a former admission counselor at a small, Division III school (I left that position two years ago next month), I regularly told students (athletes and non-athletes) who would struggle to pay that tuition to attend community colleges first and save that money. The tuition costs were more than 9:1 from the community college. The community college I had coached at prior to the D III private moved from Division III status to Division I status within the NJCAA when they began offering tuition waivers to student-wrestlers. The problem was that it is incredibly difficult to tell an 18-year-old that NJCAA wrestling isn't akin to JV2 wrestling when all they have heard in high school is that and that they as a wrestler are above that level. If their parents have been hypnotized by that same speech, then there is little to nothing you can do about it at that point to keep someone from think that spending $30,000-plus a year (with the top internal scholarship), without a tuition freeze, mainly to wrestle is a smart idea.
  8. Yeah, not at all classy. I would have liked Dake to leave it at, "Hey, JB, after I beat you at OTT, I'll let you be my training partner for Tokyo, where you can watch me win gold from your seat in the stands."
  9. Last I checked, refereeing is rules implementation. If you can read the rule book, comprehend what you've read, then demonstrate comprehension of said rules through implementation, why would you need to have participated in any sport to be a judge of it?
  10. Embrace Freestyle and Greco Roman at the NCAA, NAIA, and NJCAA level on downs. Have each of them develop post-collegiate programs, as well as youth programs.
  11. Mine came from YouTube, so... ? https://youtu.be/PGr2rGP4xaA Also, IMar and Gantt. My apologies for that mistake. Would you mind posting that, please?
  12. I'm going right to the end of this thread for a question I have. Did Flo edit out the first eight minutes or so of the interview with a match between Nolf and Gantt from Bill Farrell, I think? I watched it this morning for the first time and went back to it three times thinking my computer was messed up. Once it made it past the match Burroughs and Dake were already going at it.
  13. Fair, so how do you set two sets of rules for one competition? It can't be the same as baseball with the designated hitter rule.
  14. But the idea is to remove subjectivity from the referee. You can't have one set of rules for guys who shoot and one for guys who prefer to pummel, duck, body lock, etc. Also, it's pretty rare to find a Freestyler who doesn't shoot.
  15. Yes, I am. After wrestling, rugby is my favorite sport.
  16. Again, it's gradual rule implementation, not a full change all at once. The United States is (for now) the richest country in the world. There's not a ton of investment in the international styles of the sport because there are so few pathways to the top. Not unlike soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, and football, all of which have the same rule structure from youth to professional, if wrestling had the same rule structures from youth to Olympics, we would see an immense amount of participation/depth at the senior levels, which would bring more investment to the sport from family, friends, and people and organizations who sell things to those groups. It's happening all around wrestling, but somehow wrestling says that the model feeding all of these other sports is wrong. What? The Nittany Lion Wrestling Club is thriving with investors and paying athletes to train and compete with and for them. More men and women wrestling Freestyle and Greco brings in more money from supporters and investors and a need for more clubs. If more people are wrestling Free and G.R. from an early age, increasing depth and level of skill, those become professional options. Again, we see it in soccer, football, baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. Why should wrestling be any different?
  17. I agree with you and so have many, many other folks across time. It's gradual rule implementation, not the whole sale change of things in one fell swoop. We live in a global society. Someone not embracing something because it's "foreign", not hearing other perspectives and ideas, is in jeopardy of quickly becoming a dinosaur and being left to the fringes. They're the folks about whom Bruce Springsteen wrote "Glory Days". The Russians excel in par terre wrestling. Why? Not unlike PA wrestlers with mat wrestling, they spend a lot of time doing it. Want to improve in par terre? Study it and work on it. Want to turn guys more on top in U.S. scholastic/collegiate? Study it and work on it. I think a guy name Scott Moore (and his brother) was a good example of that.
  18. I think the problem here presumes that the aggressor in your example is simply walking guys off the mat. Even in that situation, if a guy takes five, six or seven steps backwards with no effort to wrestle and just eat up the clock, he should be penalized for it. Along with that, a step out rule encourages more wrestling in the center of the mat and continuous flow to the match.
  19. I wholeheartedly agree with the first paragraph. It comes down to pride and admitting you don't know it all. About 20 years ago, a man who is now a well known coach came back here, where he grew up, and started a wrestling school. High level kids were the first to go to him, outside of school. When other kids saw their growth, they went, too. Coaches in this area were FURIOUS! One of those coaches was one of my former high school coaches. By and large, it was all about pride for those guys and thinking they'd have to share some glory for the success of their wrestlers. It was absolutely ridiculous, but the in-state and national results were undeniable and that club coach was integral in helping with that. The second paragraph I stronly disagree with. Two of the best, most successful coaches (one high school and one college) I've had the pleasure of being mentored by had very limited success as student-wrestlers, but immense success as wrestling coaches. Just this past weekend, Mark Perry talked about that very sentiment in a Trackwrestling video. He said people always ask him, "how can you coach Freestyle if you never wrestled [it]?" His reply? "I'm just a student of the game and I try to constantly get better [as a coach]."
  20. You haven't provided facts, GockeS. You've provided opinions, trying to pass them off as fact with no support at all. You've tried to put your words in my mouth and it hasn't worked. You want blind acceptance for your point of view, so you've turned your replies into personal attacks on me, which is how people who don't have a position argue. Post into the wind from now on, my man. I won't be paying you any more attention. Btw, I see you have been looking at my profile trying to figure out who I am.
  21. I'm with Jim L. on these statements. The last comparison you made is far too nationalistic for my liking. If I remember correctly it was an interview with Sam Barber where he discussed NCAA rule changes protecting the "heritage" of U.S. scholastic/collegiate. The rules here have changed across time, too. Which are the best? I believe that UWW has done some serious examination of what fans want to see and where the majority of points are scored in the international styles to improve their "products", keep wrestling in the Olympics and improve viewership. I cant think the same is being done with the NCAA, except for fireworks, music, and flashing lights to draw attention to ESPN.
  22. Thank you, sir. I am happy we don't need to devolve to personal attacks to share opposing opinions on the matter. I look forward to more. It's unfair to say that all Freestylers choose not to pin or even suggest that they pin less than U.S. scholastic/collegiate wrestlers. One thing to remember is the quality of the competition at the International level. It is really, really, really, really hard to turn, let alone pin world level guys, especially when they are flat and not turtling up. In another post, I gave some recent examples of U.S. wrestlers pinning and being pinned in Freestyle against international opponents, so it absolutely does happen, maybe at the same rate as it does in college. Freestyle and Greco, in my opinion, are indeed balanced forms of the sport. Not unlike U.S. scholastic/collegiate, at the NCAA tournament, what percentage of matches there have back points scored in them? NCAA fans have become snooze fests, by and large, because there are so few turns on top and guys ride parallel all the time. Again, the fact is that turning guys is incredibly difficult. The fact also is that watching two guys ride parallel for roughly 2/3 of a match has long been killing viewership. For the overwhelming majority of U.S. scholastic/collegiate wrestlers, wrestling on the feet is their bread and butter, not unlike Free and G.R. Going back to the 2019 NCAA D1 finals, as a very recent example, four sets of near fall points were scored. The first was by Anthony Cassar as a takedown to turn against Oklahoma State. Anthony Ashnault put Micah Jordan on his back straight of a takedown. Jason Nolf against Tyler Berger, again, going takedown to turn. Mekhi Lewis cradled Vincenzo Joseph from top at the beginning of the second period for the only near fall points scored during the finals from a ride. That is 10% of matches having near fall scored from a ride. Not unlike Free or Greco, smart wrestlers are more adept at taking advantage of their opponents' bad positions right from the takedown.
  23. Yes, GockeS, that means there is control of your opponent's body to execute those moves and to score those points. Here you are again being disingenuous, unless you truly are ignorant to how it works. I don't know. I don't know you or your experience with the Olympic styles. Since you mentioned "holding a man on his back", pinning is not unique to U.S. scholastic/collegiate. They happen internationally, too. Kyle Snyder can tell you about it from January when he was pinned by the Iranian. Zain Retherord was recently pinned by an Argentinian wrestler. Jordan Burroughs pins guys when the opportunity arises. This isn't peewee wrestling we are talking about, GockeS. I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but the touch fall in Free and GR is gone. Control is required to make that happen, too. GockeS, please move along. You've contributed nothing to this thread.
  24. I stated that they exist and you agreed. I never stated anything "about all these pro opportunities across the seas..." Those, GockeS, are your words.
  25. And here is where you pretend as if head pinches, hip tilts, crotch lifts, leg laces, et al are simple maneuvers. Again, sir, have you ever tried to hit any of those on a high school wrestler who is competent, but certainly not world class, in the international styles? It's as easy as snapping your fingers and doesn't require any level of skill or tactic, right?
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