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Posts posted by Tofurky

  1. Micic looks SKINNY down at 57. Who was cornering him for the tournament? 


    I wish he would have stayed at NU, but happy for everything he's accomplishing at UM.


    As to other recent Americans who wrestled for other countries, don't forget that Alex Dolly (UNI) wrestled for Ireland and Larry Langowski (Northwestern) wrestled for Mexico. Didn't one of the Cornell guys wrestle at PanAms for another nation?

  2. i chuckle everytime i hear some one say greco is unbearable to watch... 


    those same people think playing the edge, backing straight out of bounds, and laying on some one for a minute to be entertaining... i can only assume they think sitcoms and american idol are quality programming as well...


    anyway... the ostriches should watch vlasov and nemes final from today at 77... it is possibly the clearest example of the war greco is i have seen recently... shows how important  real par terre offense and defense is... how important mat awareness is... how important technique is... how important the entire match is...a true thing of beauty... 


    https://twitter.com/wrestling/media - scroll through some of the videos here. Greco Roman is a beautiful form of sport when performed at the highest level.

  3. To be successful, I think he needs to tap into the business community in Cleveland and do some fund raising.  CSU could be a gold mine if they found a patron like St. Eds did with Howard Ferguson.  Plus there is a lot of talent in the area to tap into, such as the Alan Fried and Billy Splete type, just to name a few.  Not sure what the NCAA rules are, but it would be cool to see CSU as a central training center for the region in regards to HS wrestling.  Could be a really good job if someone sees the potential in the area.  I like the choice of Josh Moore.  Lives in the area and is raising a family in the area.  It looks like he is putting down his roots. 


    I'm a huge fan of Fried's, so I'm all for that idea... if he wants it. Not unlike Askren in Wisconsin, Al Fried could be a great guy to hire for CSU if they wanted to create more buzz and boost the profile of https://www.neortc.org/.


    Not that we shouldn't all have been supporting them in the past, but this is a nice reminder to give the NEORTC a boost as Coach Moore moves the team forward.

  4. I am reading this info about Jordan Oliver and his suspension and the relation to putting the best US Team on the mat for the coming World Championships. That had me thinking about Aaron Pico. Quite obviously that ship has sailed for him and his ambitions, but as he was transitioning from Freestyle to MMA, was he peaking in terms of his wrestling abilities or was his jump premature? He is clearly crucial in creating depth at 65 kilos, but would he have become the best option for the US at this weight had he decided to stick around for another four years or were other guys at that weight surpassing him?

  5. I think it's great what Azevedo chose to do for the benefit of his own program. As much as I wish they would, I just don't know enough kids, parents, high school and club coaches care about integrity on that level that you will see a lot of young men say, "I want to wrestle for THAT guy." I hope I am wrong.


    As to DeSanto, does anyone have the video of him yelling at his corner during the blood round? I again watched the highlights that Flo have from that match before posting this, and I remain baffled by that third period meltdown/lack of action by Austin that opened the door for a DelVecchio win. Does anyone know what Austin was screaming at his corner?


    Finally, if DeSanto keeps it together, gets off bottom and All-Americans this past March, is the discussion the same or different with the Drexel coaches after the tournament?

  6. I wonder if and when the Brands Bros have the conversation with DeSanto about wrestling hard to dominate vs. purposefully making effort to not hurt, but injure your opponent. The young man set the precedent for the conversation through multiple actions of the sort in this year alone.


    Does anyone remember the comments made by those involved following Gilman’s intentional slam on Waters from some years ago? I’m not in a place to be looking that up right now.


    Beyond that, good luck to all involved. I hope this is a positive change for each and every person in this situation.



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  7. I'm really struggling to follow you here.  It sounds like you have some sort of personal beef with Askren.


    Yes, Askren stopped competing in freestyle after 2008, but I'm not sure how that means Lee Kemp is a better choice as he stopped competing in 1984. 


    Plus, it isn't accurate to say Askren "quit training" after 2008, as he started a wrestling academy in Wisconsin, regularly worked out with other freestylers, and obviously trained wrestling for MMA. 


    Lee Kemp is a legend but he's over 60.  I can't say who has better coaching abilities, but there's no doubt that Askren would be the stronger draw for current Wisconsin high schoolers to attend the Univ. of Wisconsin.


    Lastly, I don't follow the logic that you need Kemp to "dig into that alumni money that's out there and help grow the program."  I would think Askren would be just as strong a draw to potential donors, maybe more so, and given his superior name recognition is more likely to help grow the program.


    I wouldn't criticize at all if Kemp were hired, but I don't see how hiring Askren can be seen as anything but a huge get for Bono.


    Don't know Ben at all and I have never met the guy. Having anything personal against him would be impossible for me. I'm a fan of the dude, but that doesn't mean I think he's the best hire.


    Ben quit competing to focus on another skill completely. Lee has been involved with the sport at almost every level since he stopped. While Matt believes that Lee being a World/Olympic team coach is more an honorary title than reality, there's a reason Lee Kemp is given that "honorary" title, even at his age, goes to team camps, potentially travels with teams, and not a young Ben Askren.


    When you're talking about donor money, Ben didn't attend Wiscy. Lee Kemp attended Wiscy and can personally tap into that "old money" that many of those older dudes who continue to follow the team might have. I suspect that Lee can even "shake the tree" a little more than Ben can with the UWisconsin crowd. Ben, however, will probably have more grassroots success outside of the Badger contingent.


    I wish Team Ben-o nothing but the best in this new venture.

  8. Mike Grey was a 2X AA.

    That’s what I said out loud to myself when I read that. So much for peaking as a high school sophomore.


    Also, the only thing that would have helped Mark Grey was to turn him into the $6 Million Dollar man. His inability to make the stand has nothing to do with lack of skill. I don’t know if I saw anyone else with his bad luck regarding injuries.



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  9. How much coaching experience does Kemp have?  World team and Olympic coach is a title.  You coach the guys for a week.  Has he even been coaching with anything close to modern era wrestling rules, tactics, and strategies?  If you want to go off of results, Kemp should be a head coach over Tom Ryan and Dan Gable.  IMO Askren is a much better choice if you want guys to compete at their best rather than having accolades tied to the position. 


    "... compete at their best" in what style? His made up $#!* with Marty Flo where only Ben understood the rules and invited in guys he could thump and make money? That was until he didn't.


    Askren has made no bones about his disdain for Freestyle, so he quit training in it all together back in 2008. He's been out of that for a decade. Askren is not the first guy you hire for that job.


    Now let's be honest, they hired Ben because of his stature within the state and Bono wants to keep the in-state crowd at home. In that case, where technique is not the premium, why would you NOT hire Lee Kemp as the head to dig into that alumni money that's out there and help grow the program, not unlike what has been done in Iowa City and State College?


    Honorary title of coach for a guy who won World gold thrice and then is there with recent World and Olympic teams... I stand by my statements.

  10. I always loved Ed Ruth's "style." In competition, it appeared to me that he seemed to be drilling with an eye on, "Huh... I wonder what will happen if I try this."


    In those last few months of him being on the mat, it was pretty clear that Ed was indifferent to the outcomes and wasn't putting his full effort into winning.

  11. I’m not a fan of the open tournaments taking place before the first semester/trimester ends. I’d like to see the NCAA say something to the effect, “institutions/individuals enrolled in a full-time program at an NCAA partner school may not begin competition until Fall semester finals have completed.” That will vary from institution to institution, but the emphasis needs to be on the STUDENT-athlete. Don’t wanna be a student? Be part of a RTC somewhere and make a World/Olympic team.



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  12. These are my opinions and are backed by my experiences having wrestled D3, knowing many others who did, and staying involved (indirectly). I'm not sure what your experience is with the division, but the point of a forum is to provide opinions, and that is what I always do.  


    1.  Being recruited D3 significantly helps with admission, although the degree to which it does will vary on the school. I never said it guarantees admission. The only school that had zero impact from being recruited was MIT, which now no longer has a program. My point is valid that most of the time when you are recruited D3, the best school that you get into academically is generally one that is recruiting you.  If you apply to two schools of equal academic standing (schools A and B), and you are recruited to school A, you are likely to get into neither, only school A, or both schools A and B.  It won't happen that you only get into school B.  


    2. Most athletes in D3 aren't picking a college based off of wrestling. It's nonsensical to do so given that it is a nonscholarship division. Will it help somebody decide on school A over school B?  Yes, it does.  But that is not going to be the primary reason to attend- not by a long shot. This is true for the majority in D3 (there are exceptions like Augsburg Wartburg).  


    3. I'm not citing any in particular, but a number of posters on this forum say boosting enrollment is the reason for growth in NAIA/D3.  They add the sport and use the recruiting process to help with enrollment.  If that's not true, then it is news to me, and a very good thing. 


    4. In terms of the numbers that quit. Check out the press releases from D3 schools and see the average size of the recruiting classes.  Multiply that by 4 and then look at the roster size.  The thing with D3 is that there are many reasons to quit and the only thing that would keep you going is that you like the sport/the people on your team. It's not close to as tough as D1, but still a lot more brutal than HS wrestling..The weight cutting/injuries/ringworm/etc add up.  


    I coach D3 and work in admissions for the same school where I coach. I'm quite familiar with it from the "business" end of things.


    You are correct that you are providing your opinion here. However, you may want to be more exact and use the term conjecture.

  13. When you are recruited to compete in D3, schools that offer wrestling are often the best ones that you can get into because getting recruited helps with the admissions process.


    Being recruited to a D3 is absolutely no guarantee of admission. Like any other student, if you do not meet the minimum criteria for admission, then you find another college or university to attend. Most every and any college you find isn't going to admit a kid who can barely keep up in high school or community college, as they probably won't be around long enough to make a difference. Then you have to chase down that tuition money? Thanks, but nah.


    People are going to these schools not because there is wrestling but because these are good schools that also have wrestling teams. 


    For most students, at best it's a combination of having a wrestling program and the fact that it's a solid fit academically. At worst, it's because they have wrestling and they want to continue to compete. There certainly are exceptions to the rule, but they are just that.


    You're talking about teenage boys here. They're not thinking about financials and many times the high school and club coaches they had talked their parents into thinking they're going to waltz to a D3 title. They're thinking about the t-shirt they'll get that says they were a college wrestler somewhere; they'll develop a touch of to full-blown cauliflower ear because they couldn't be bothered to wear headgear; and the chance to say that they had X record on the college level.


    A large group of D3 recruits quit very shortly after arriving on campus.  These students don't transfer out to a different school that offers wrestling because the reason they chose the school was not mainly based on wrestling. 


    Where's your data on this? It all depends on the program, the cost of the education and what their options might be at that time. Most of those guys went to X school because of wrestling. The institution's academic reputation was the cherry on top.


    The whole point of D3 is that athletics are secondary to academics: that is why there are supposed to be no athletic scholarships.


    So far, this is the only point you've made that is 100% accurate on not merely conjecture.


    People compete in D3 because they enjoy competition and like the sport.  However, if a NESCAC school were to cut wrestling, I doubt you would see all of the athletes transfer (like you do in D1).  You would see them stay at the school, which they chose for academics, and compete as a club team (or not compete).


    More conjecture; have you spoken with every kid in D3?


    As to what would happen with the NESCAC schools, I don't believe that any of us could say with 100% assurance.


    Here is my slightly controversial take on some D3 and NAIA programs: If the only reason that a University has a team is to attract students to pay partial or full tuition, maybe that University isn't worth attending. Why can't they get students otherwise? 


    How many D3 programs and NAIA programs can you cite that have stated that their goal is to boost enrollment numbers by adding wrestling?


    Institutions of higher education offer sports because their students want them or they see a trend in a certain sport. They're not stupid people; they do their research. If they can realistically/responsibly offer that opportunity, then it's a win-win for the student-athlete and the institution. And, like any other program, if they manage a few All-Americans out of it in the process, that will help their school's image spread.


    You're usually a really solid poster, billyhoyle. For some reason, you appear to be going out of your way to be a real @$$#0!* here, and I cannot figure out why.

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