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Posts posted by Tofurky

  1. This reads to me like more excuses... or some of the same old excuses because this argument has been out there for years.


    How many guys in the 55, 60, 66, 74 and 84 kilos weight classes can make an NFL roster? Does that make them bad athletes because they're not Ray Lewis or Adrian Peterson?


    Escobedo made a medal match, but lost. Hump won two. Metcalf caught one of the best guys in the entire world right out of the gates and was one and done. Burroughs won... again. Gavin went 1-1. Bergman lost to a guy who placed fifth and Tervel was fifth... yet again. I think for those out there who look at world talent objectively each and every year, the US did well this season with the guys who made the team.


    It's pretty typical for American wrestling fans to expect domination by this country's athletes at every level, but it's hard to dominate when the guys on your team just aren't as good at wrestling as the guys from places like Iran, Russia, Georgia and others from that very specific region of the world. Heck, though top five, the US finished just two points ahead of India.

  2. I think it has to do with egos.


    Wrestlers severely underestimate the talent it takes to be on the level of guys like Derrick Rose, Chris Paul or Kevin Durant. Many of the guys I know who hold this view are of the "no one on EARTH works harder than a wrestler, even at the freshman level."


    On the other hand, basketball is part of a multi-billion dollar organization in this country, let alone globally, and a lot of b-ballers, especially inner city kids, think they're the next LeBron or Kobe. Many of those guys feel that they can be pricks to a large swatch of society because they play their sport better than the average Joe.


    I've also seen some of the inner city bball kids think they're tougher than stone because they grew up in X neighborhood. The basketballers then underestimate wrestlers, especially the guys on the lower ends of the weight scales.

  3. I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd have to suspect that things changed when youth wrestling began to explode. More mat time from a younger age certainly makes for better wrestlers from the bottom on up.


    Mind you, I am 38, so much of my info goes off of reading what posters older than myself here and on other boards have stated or suggested.

  4. Two things I am noticing that seem to be prevalent in the conversation about this every year:

    1. Outside of 74 kilos, there is very limited depth at most every other weight for the United States.

    2. There's a lot of talk of guys who retired/possibly retired/were injured. To me that's a lot of excuse making, but then also goes right back to point numero uno.


    Also, as a team, where does the US sit? I don't mean with points and all, but as a full on team? Are they still a top three or five power? Are they outside of the top 10 nations in men's Freestyle?

  5. I'm seeing the mistake Tofurky, the database mistakenly lists these two different competitors as being the same person. It claims that Aliasghar is competing at 74kg today, but it's actually Ezzatollah. You can watch the video of the other Akbarizarinkolaei, their body types and (obviously) size are completely different. The Iranian is listed as "Essadollah Akbari" in the database and he is young, turning 21 last month.


    Thanks for clearing that up, bwh. I had seen Ezzatollah listed as Akbari, but then checked the brackets thinking they had it right. As I previously mentioned, themat.com brackets have it wrong, too. Oh well. I was wrong.


    Was Goudarzi injured or is he just taking time away from the mat for now?

  6. And then to go from the CADET world finals three weeks ago to the SENIOR world finals... and down two weight classes no less? Man! Who is this kid and how old is he?


    Wait, where did this info come from? I have to think this is false...


    Foeldeak database... same tournament Aaron Pico won last month. The brackets courtesy of themat.com leave out three vowels from his name and he's the only one in the database with a name like that.

  7. Was the Uzbeki really small for 74 or is the Iranian kid that big? I understand that he was almost a full head taller than Kurbanov, but physically he looked a monster next to Kurbanov.


    And then to go from the CADET world finals three weeks ago to the SENIOR world finals... and down two weight classes no less? Man! Who is this kid and how old is he?

  8. Provided all goes right, Dzhalilov from Tajikistan first round, Khubetzy second round, Hassanov in the quarters, a weak semi and then, my guess, is Mora, the Cuban, or Hatos from Hungary in the finals. An outside chance from the bottom bracket could be the Ukranian or the Uzbeki wrestlers.


    Also, am I reading correctly that the Iranian at the bottom of the bracket has been wrestling at 100 kilos in the cadet division until now? I find it very hard to believe that a kid who has had to cut more than 40 pounds to make the weight is the best option for a team like Iran.

  9. I thought I read somewhere that the IOC requires the same weight classes even in non-olympic years.


    I don't think is true. The rules are different for plenty of sports. In Olympic mens tennis for example, they only play best of 3 sets until the finals.


    This is a response that Stan gave last year on this board (see thread title, date and time).


    Re: Weight Classes

    by StanDziedzic » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:47 pm


    In 2004, the Bureau presented to the FILA Congress--which passed--to add an 8th weight class in men's GR/FS in the 3 World Championships between Olympic Games and then, as currently dictated by the IOC, return to the 7 wtg classes for the Olympics. When the IOC heard of the decision, it quickly made it known under no uncertain terms, to do so would not be in the best interest of wrestling in the Olympic movement.


    Two years ago FILA applied to the IOC to have 6 Women's weight categories in London. The IOC responded it would grant 2 additional wtgs for the Women, if each of the men's disciplines dropped to 6. FILA voted to counter w/: the men stay @ 7, but each will reduce a few qualifiers in order to accommodate the 2 new women categories. The IOC rejected the counter, so FILA stayed w/ 7 each for the men and 4 for the women. FILA's agenda includes bringing the women to 6, the men to 8 each and increasing the # of qualifiers.

  10. Fight shorts... ugh. I am all for allying with MMA, but is a board short necessary? Again, to go back to another thread, why not an underarmour shirt and vale tudo short/rash guard combo?


    As to the color of the mats, similar to Jaroslav, I scratched my head on that one, but that's a minor concern I would think.


    Bracketing is both good and bad. Good in that the true wrestling nerds will be able to more accurately predict medalists. Bad in that the possibility of a very few of the same old countries making the medal rounds is quite likely.

  11. It will be an experiment that's for sure. But I can almost promise it won't be any more tiring than a 7-min collegiate folkstyle match. The best UFC fighters in the world have told me that 7 minutes on the college mat is more tiring than 15 minutes in the cage.


    I think this one answers itself.


    How can you "almost promise [a nine minute match] won't be any more tiring than a 7-min collegiate folkstyle match"? If a seven minute college match is exhausting, which we all know it can be with the right amount of action involved,--a nine minute match, in most cases, is going to culminate with both guys standing around or tying up with little to no intention of scoring for the few minutes, waiting for the final whistle to blow.


    To me, "nine" seems like such a nostalgic number because it had been law more than two decades ago. Speaking for myself alone, I'm more interested in who the better wrestler is, not who is the best conditioned of the two. I firmly believe that this can be resolved in a six minute match, split in half.

  12. Adam,


    Thanks for your reply. Your time is appreciated.


    That said, what is your involvement in AGON?


    Is there a development department that intends to seek out private funding to make this "professional"?


    "A safety net for all the loss we've experienced on the World/Olympic level" how? Are there other nations' governing bodies who are being pitched this idea and enthusiastically supporting the concept?


    That said, how do the AGON folks intend to market this any better than what RPW tried to do with an entire season on television time no less?


    How often does the organization plan on doing analysis of its events? I ask this because I am highly suspect that the fans are going to see an explosion of action during the seventh and eighth minutes of matches and most will be left checking their watches to see how much longer the match will last. My guess is that the third period, by and large, will net, on average, two points. Of course there will be exceptions, but analysis here will be crucial in determining if nine minutes was overshooting the mark and boring the $#!* out of the fans or if it was spot on and we're seeing a lot of Tommy Brands/Joey Gilbert-type affairs that have scoring from start to finish.


    I've read about half the thread and there are some very good ideas going on here. I'll be keeping an eye on it as it goes along.

  13. I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if my questions have been answered in some of the lengthy discussion preceding this post.


    What is the goal of AGON? Do you want to eliminate FILA and change international wrestling altogether? Do you hope to have some influence with the NCAA and NHSCA to potentially amend some rules down the line? Does this intend to be something more like Real Pro Wrestling?


    What is going to be accomplished in nine minutes that cannot be accomplished in six minutes? Is a nine minute match ultimately about who has the best lungs or who is the best wrestler come the eighth minute?


    If I am the attacking wrestler, why would I be penalized by stepping out during my move while my opponent is attempting to flee/defend my hold? I could see this being an easy call with kids as the finishes are fairly quick and easy, but on the highest levels every guy is fighting for every inch and finishing a shot is nowhere near as simple or smooth.


    What will be the size of the wrestling area? Are you going by High school, college or Iowa Hawkeye rules?


    Why no reward for feet to danger maneuvers?


    I like a lot of what is being proposed here, but I am also confused by some of it, too. That's coming from a guy who watches wrestling on a nearly daily basis.

  14. How big is Askren's following?


    I ask because I seem to remember White being adamant about not allowing Kimbo Slice to be part of the UFC, but because he had become such an internet sensation through his fighting and being used a bodyguard in the porn industry, there was almost no way White could continue to say no because of the revenue he would potentially generate and I am guessing did, ultimately. I can't imagine that Askren offers anything remotely the same to the Zuffa organization. Am I wrong about that?

  15. The talent pool isn't diluted. And, there is actually a barrier to entry. That barrier is, most people can't hack the work required to do it.


    Oh right I forgot, wrestling has cornered the market on hard work. Athletes in other sports just waltz into competition without much hard work. Guys like Phelps won all those golds not by training 10 hours per day but rather he just showed up to the pool at the olympics.


    Wrestlers are willing to push themselves to the brink of complete mental breakdown and physical exhaustion every day as they practice and compete in their sport.


    Silly me, I also forgot that wrestling has also cornered the market on mental toughness and physical exhaustion. No other sport comes close to wrestling in terms of mental toughness or physical exhaustion, say for example elite level triathlons. A 2.4 mile swim + 112 mile bike race + 26 mile marathon run is nothing compared to a 6 minute wrestling match. Not even that, but training for Ironman is probably a piece of cake compared to wrestling practice.



    While were at it, the average football play lasts :06, with a minimum of :30 rest in between plays. There is also oxygen on the sidelines. How tough is that?


    While we're still at, the average wrestling match lasts 6 minutes, sometimes way less, like under a minute if there's a pin, with a minimum of about 30 minutes rest between matches. There is also injury timeouts and water on the side of the mat. How tough is that? I mean compared to ultramarathoners who run for hours non-stop.


    This might be the most honest reply DF has ever given on these boards and I enjoyed it.


    Flat out, this thread alone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the incredible Napoleon Complex that many fans/current and former members of this sport have.

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