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Posts posted by Missourimatman

  1. I have been coaching now for 14 years at the high school level. This past weekend at an out-of-state tournament, one of my kids was verbally accosted by some officials for running before the tournament and weigh-ins began stating he would be kicked out of any tournament in the nation at any level for engaging in activities (exercise) that promote weight loss while in the school. They claimed this is prohibited in the NFHS rules. I've never seen anything like this enforced at any tournament in Missouri, Iowa or Illinois that I have attended.

    I am not aware of any rule that prohibits this and at almost every event I have ever been to,  there are athletes working out before weigh-ins to make weight. Am I missing something?


  2. 10 hours ago, scramble said:

    I don't have knowledge of specifics, just an abstract understanding of bits and pieces of things I know or have heard.  Again, it is vague as I haven't heard anything direct.  When you look at an "academy" format within the state of Missouri for developing youth you have the Purlers, Eirman, and at one time a few Henson kids.  So you are naturally going to have a divide at the fan level.  A difference of opinions on who is better.  With that comes the "he said she said" and unsubstantiated statements against all of them from one person or another for personal reasons.  If you filter all the stuff out from the youth or high school level and look only at the college level.. the college level could care less about who's opinion is what about whom.  

    So from an abstract understanding... I don't believe there is any personal dissension at all between Eirman and the Mizzou staff.  If there was, Missouri would have a few guys less on their roster and the likes of OU or ISU would probably have a few more.  Several of Eirman's top kids have gone to Mizzou.  So that in itself is kind of a statement there are no personal issues between him or the MiZZOU staff.  I know 100% first hand that people connected to the Mizzou staff think he is doing a good job with kids and has a "great wrestling mind".  Unless something new has transpired over a couple years I am not aware of, there is a good relationship there between the two.  So whatever the reason I am guessing it is logistical.  Whether it be something logistical, degree status, or some other reason I don't believe it is just because Eirman is not a college level coach.  I mean heck, the way assistants get paid in wrestling it may not even be financially feasible for Eirman to take an assistant position. Regardless, I think Maple was a better hire to fit the overall needs.  However, regarding why Eirman wouldn't have been considered I think it is more logistical.  There is something that probably will keep it from ever happening, but I don't think it is a broken relationship between Eirman and Mizzou.  

    I do know Smith is a straight up, systematic, program first kind of coach.  He has a set of Norms, whatever they are, and he won't sway from them. 

    Henson is back running "Bull Trained" club at Hallsville, Blair Oaks and St. Charles locations.

  3. 23 hours ago, Perry said:

    Lindenwood is pretty good at pulling in former d1 guys that dont want to do that grind. I believe they just had Colby Smith transfer in for this coming season. Not sure if adding another d1 school in MO would be a good thing, consolidating the in state talent to one place makes Mizzou competitive on the regular

    I've heard rumblings from time to time that Lindenwood wanted to transition into D1 and FCS in football. They are joining the GLVC this year though so I don't see any that happening any time soon.

  4. 1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

    What? I guess I never knew there were rules against this. So kids that are training FS/GR with highschool coaches are breaking state rules? If that is the case, there must be a ton of rule breaking going on (or at least there was when I was wrestling).

    Yes, high school coaches are not allowed to coach their own kids in any style of wrestling outside of the season in Missouri, other than 20 contact days during the summer. As you allude to, there is a lot of cheating.

  5. 18 hours ago, scramble said:

    I can tell you that there was not much positive reaction.  The message boards lit up with negative comments when he got the job.  "Who in the heck is Brian Smith" was about the normal statement.  This was in part because Terry Brands was rumored to be a candidate. I never heard it confirmed he was, but I do know that was the talk.  I was just getting started in my coaching career in Missouri about the time Smith went to Missouri.  I can also tell you I was one of maybe a handful of people who said give it time.  Because I had known of Smith before he went to Missouri I was confident he would turn the program around and make it a consistent top 20 and occasional top 10 team.  He has surpassed that.   As negative as it was when he came in it was even worse when he booted Scott Barker, the defending national runner-up, 2 years into the job.  A lot of people went ballistic.  However, there was a core of fans and coaches that respected how he was insistent at changing the culture.  About 2-years after that the rest is history.  He began producing a few All-Americans, then a national champ in Askren and so on.  Not only did he change the culture at Mizzou, but I believe he had a hand in changing the culture of wrestling in Missouri as a state.  He was great with PR.  He got involved with people at the State High School Association and began connecting with coaches.  He advocated for the sport with the High School Association and got involved with wrestling at all levels in the state.  Camp numbers exploded, teams from all over the state were going to the camps, and some of the state rules for high school started to shift and loosen up a little with how coaches could work with kids in FS/GR and teams traveling during season.  He was not responsible for it, but I do think his involvement helped with shift and changes.  Missouri is now producing several nationally ranked kids, and having success at the D1 level.  

    The one thing that the good coaches who turn programs around have in common is that they can change the culture.  Sure it is a little easier at a powerhouse program.  However, look at Lock Haven, Wyoming, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, Iowa State as of recent, and even Northern Colorado, Tom Ryan when he was at Hofstra.  Yes, a few have bigger college wrestling names, but in the end, all of them were able to shift the culture.  Heck, Dresser has done it twice.  Nothing can change in a down program unless you change the culture.  If Clemson does that at MD they will be a top 20 team within 4 years.  Maybe sooner.  Once that happens you can build into a top 10. 

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but state rules have not loosened up for coaches being able to work with kids in FS/GR. It has been and is still illegal for coaches to have contact with their athletes out of the school season during the school year

  6. 45 minutes ago, scramble said:

    If you are talking about in the USA, Eirman is 3rd.  I'm sure you are right on Waters.  I don't think this is that unique though.  Many of the guys who have ambitions of making the USA team don't train in rooms that are full of training partners. They get together for training sessions and training camps.  JB did it a Nebraska, prior Green.  I also think you can't completely discount J'Den.  He got both of his Bronze medals while training at Mizzou, and I am pretty sure Askren trained there too on his Olympic Run.  Yes, J'Den went with KJ to the OTC and won gold.  I think that was a smart and great move for him.  I believe it can often help guys after they have been somewhere for a long time to go and get a different perspective. 

    Also, I am not talking about the foundation at all.  Just saying that many of their guys have success on the freestyle circuit.  Also, I said Missouri outside of the big 4.  We often talk about the "big time job" being the only place the great ones go too.  That is a myth that is extremely overstated.  There are more great talents and coaches than those 4 programs can hold.  Also, if we are talking about the number of guys in the current top 10 rankings then you have to throw Cornell in there.  They have Dake, Nashon, JO, and probably Yianni after this weekend. Which would mean OSU only has Fix. I think as fans we overstate where many of these greats would go.  I never in a million years thought Metcalf and St. John would go to V-tech, and then got to Iowa State! I mean holy cow; especially Metcalf.  He bled black and gold so much he is still probably wondering how he ended up at ISU.  Who thought Branch would go to Wyoming, Bono to South Dakota, Coleman Scott to the Carolina's etc.  Again, there are only so many coaching slots available and a lot of great prospects.

    Well you referred to the Missouri Wrestling Club which I believe is the Missouri Wrestling Foundation. Metcalf did an interview on how the move went down. All it took was someone to reach out and pitch the idea, and he made the decision pretty much in the blink of an eye. According to the interview, very few people had approached him about coaching.


  7. 6 hours ago, scramble said:

    1) I think you are correct.  Knowing what I know about Smith, he probably would not want his top assistant still competing. This could be why Joe Johnston was not moved to the top assistant when Clemson came in, but that is pure speculation.  I think Johnston was still competing back then.  That is one of the reasons I could see him moving up now.  Additionally, I don't think there is anyone not competing right now who would be a better fit for Clemson's void, other than Stieber, maybe.  Moving up Johnston, and opening the spot for the number 2 assistant would open things up I think for who Smith would be willing to hire.  Like someone coming to the end of their competition career.  Again, I am pretty sure he doesn't particularly want his top assistant still competing.  For a guy like Gomez, my personal opinion is if it is only one year let him compete.  He would be huge.  Other than maybe Delgado, I think the rest are either ending or coming to an end with their competitive careers.  Next year is the Olympic year. I don't think anyone on that list will make the Olympics at which point they will probably retire.  Chamberlin may try one more world team, depending on where he ends up on the Oly Ladder.

    2) While I agree the Missouri Wrestling Club isn't thought of as star stellar, they actually have had a significant amount of success when compared to most programs.  Again, when you remove the top 4, Missouri is at the top of that next pack.  When you break it down, IA, PSU, and tOSU all have 1 guy at the top of the ladder.  OSU could say they have one with JO.  That could potentially change with Nolf, Zain, Nico, and Bo toward the top.  However, I think realistically Nolf is the only one that could make the world team this year of those 4. However, if you track back to Missouri at the USA level you have the following:

    At the senior level, I can think of J'Den, Waters, Eireman (3rd on the USA ladder), Lavalle, Mayes, Askren (Olympian), Bradley, Marable (Beat JB).

    Notable Juniors off the top of my head: Elam (Junior World Champ), Mocco, Severado, Mauller, O'Toole (incoming), Jaques, Lewis.

    I'm not sure any team outside of the top 4 is doing more at that level, but I could be missing something.  Also, when you look at it there are a lot of top guys going elsewhere to train from those major training center. So I think Missouri does a lot better than people realize.  Again, I try to think about the level of insight the competitors have rather than the fans.  I think they probably see and realize that Mizzou is more a quiet success. 

    I totally understand that most don't seem to recognize Mizzou as one of the best teams in the country.  However, I think if it is looked at from the perspective of those really embedded in wrestling they probably see it, as to where the average person may not.  I believe Missouri has more top 10 finishes in the last decade than any team outside of the big 4. (tOSU, OSU, IA, PSU).  The competitors have to know that.  So I think from their perspective they would see Mizzou as a top-notch program and a good job to land.   

    I can understand why it may seem those guys wouldn't be interested at the surface level, and they may not even think of applying on their own.  However, I think if Smith reached out to them it would pique their interest in a hurry.  According to interviews, I have heard, Metcalf and St. John hadn't considered VT. Nevertheless, when Dresser called them it was a done deal pretty quick. So it may take someone reaching out to them just because they may not even be thinking about it. 

    As for Logan.  Unless he has made some kind of commitment to tOSU, I definitely think it would not be outside of the realm of possibility.  I think Smith and Ryan have a good relationship and the programs respect one another.  Roselli left tOSU and hunter left tOSU.  With the line of talented coaches at tOSU, even someone like Logan will be waiting a while to move up if he stays there.  You would have to think if with him retiring he is thinking about his family and future career.  Missouri would a pretty good place to get that started, especially with the recent assistant coaches that have landed head coaching jobs.  

    I do think any of the above-mentioned names in my first post could get Missouri over that #5 and #6 hump.  Missouri is certainly primed to leap into the top for a few years in a row.  When you look at what is coming back after the Olympic year you have probably 7 legit A.A. prospects.  Mauller, Jaques, Elam, and Eireman are all back.  You also have O'Toole coming in next year who is an absolute stud.  There are five very likely all-Americans right away.  In addition, you have Koeling and Marriott back along with anyone else they develop.  So I definitely think it would be a good job for anyone, and if approached I think Mizzou could land a pretty big assistant. 

    Just my thoughts.



    I think you are overstating the prowess of the Missouri Wrestling Foundation quite a bit. Outside of J'Den, who isn't even training there any longer, they don't have a single wrestler ranked in the top 10 at the senior level. I'm also pretty sure Waters is the only post grad that trains there currently.

  8. 18 hours ago, tigerfan said:


    Check out Missouri's Associate Head Coach Alex Clemsen's comments regarding RTC's.  Starts at about the 28 min mark.

    Without naming names or being directly critical, his sentiments were decidedly less than enthusiastic, it sounded to me.  He came about as close to crossing the line as he possibly could, without blatantly calling people cheaters.  I wonder if that RTC tension is widespread in D1 and polarizing the coaches? 

    Pretty sure Missouri still has a RTC, at least in title. I think Waters is the only post-grad that trains there though.

  9. 4 hours ago, Warren_Haynes said:

    The three consecutive starters from 141-157 are all from the same high school (Fater Tolton Catholic) and club team (Eierman Elite.) 


    Most interesting part is that Tolton usually fields a program of about 15 kids total. 

    The size of Tolton isn't all that relevant. Tolton historically has just been an extension of Eierman wrestlers that live in the Columbia area. It isn't as if the school is organically producing any talent. Also, Jacques won state titles at Kirksville and Owensville before ever coming to Tolton.

  10. On 12/27/2018 at 9:41 AM, mlbruem said:

    What do you think? Looking at the South Beach Duals and the 16 teams that are there this could really be a premier event if

    they made it a dual tournament with an overall champion. Would be a good chance they could sell the semi's and finals

    to a network as a national TV broadcast.

    MU couldn't fill Jesse Audiorium for the Cornell dual a few years ago. It is hard to argue an event has national appeal when you can't even sell it in your own back yard. 

  11. I am not aware of any live attendance announcements but the numbers may be out there. I don't think Flo every announced them. also that's a negative on the viewership numbers. maybe when Netflix starts publishing their viewer data we will join in as well ;)

    When Netflix starts broadcasting live sports then that might be relevant. I am atleast able to find out how many subscribers there are to Netflix. How many paid subscribers are there to Flowrestling?


    Instead Flo sports has positioned itself against companies like ESPN, yet when asked to provide viewership numbers like other sports broadcast companies provide, won't do it. One would think both Flo and USA wrestling would be publishing these numbers to show how the partnership is paying off. Why the lack of transparency?

  12. I'm not asking who has responsibility. i'm asking who has grown the sport and what did they do, specifically, to grow it.


    thank you in advance.

    I'm specifically addressing the relationship between USA Wrestling and Flo. Listing out every coach, organization, or entity who helps to grow wrestling isn't really relevant to that point.

  13. maybe this is a stupid question but what entity has "grown the sport of wrestling" and what have they done specifically to grow it?


    thank you.

    In this case USA wrestling has the responsibility for promoting and growing the sport. People like myself, question the decision to hide USA wrestling's premier product behind a subscription-based streaming service. This seems counter to the idea of growing the sport beyond the current boundaries.

  14. Just as much data that the fans who claim that flo ISNT growing the sport.


    Flo doesn't promote wrestling? Flo is constantly promoting their product both domestically and internationally.

    The burden of proof is on those making the affirmative claim, which in this case is your camp. Show some data to support your claims that wrestling fans are leaving the sport at a slower rate, continuing to follow the sport, etc.

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