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Posts posted by RPKD

  1. I just checked out the Cornell roster for 2012-13 and noticed that Alex Cisneros and Mark Grey are not listed. Does this mean they are taking a "gray shirt" this year and just wrestling for FLWC???


    Yes. They are deferring a year.


    Are they not attending classes this year? I thought that there are no redshirts in the Ivy League. Do Harvard, Columbia, and Brown do this as well?


    Probably taking less than 12 credits, which means they are not enrolled as full time students. At least that is my guess....but someone please correct me if I am wrong.

  2. I just checked out the Cornell roster for 2012-13 and noticed that Alex Cisneros and Mark Grey are not listed. Does this mean they are taking a "gray shirt" this year and just wrestling for FLWC???



    The term is Grey-Shirt not gray-shirt and for a reason.


    Gimp....are you guys still sore about that Cooperman hijacking! :-)

  3. In all of the talk of getting more coverage from ESPN, there is no talk at all about where the money from espn is going. Why can't the NWCA negotiate a contract with ESPN broadcast the duals and have some revenue sharing among the teams that place in order to help them become self sufficient. THAT'S THE BEST IDEA THAT I HAVE HEARD.


    If its an NCAA Championship, the NCAA gets the money - end of discussion. Football bowl games are outside the NCAA, so the money can be distributed differently. If the event stayed a strictly NWCA Championship, then they could divide money however they want, but as soon as it is the sanction NCAA Championship they cannot.


    There is no way Emmert is using TV money to help "save" programs. They already feel benevolent just by allowing sports like wrestling to remain a sanctioned sport. The NCAA will keep the money and do whatever they want to with it. We have zero leverage.


    This would be a different situation if we involved the NCAA with the National Duals, either as a partner or as a sanctioning body. Bear in mind that the National Duals were developed by the NWCA and in (at least an abstract way) is the property of NWCA. Therefore, sharing of revenues between the NCAA and NWCA would not be inappropriate under these circumstances. Hopefully, some of the NWCA members will look at this the same way so that wrestling can reap some of the benefits.

  4. But, there has been a lot of talk about building the casual fan base and ESPN broadcasting the duals. I think it starts here...as important this has been to us,there has been zero national stories about this. Nothing on ESPN, nothing on Outside The Lines, no PTI, etc.


    When we are talking about making a major change with no media coverage outside of wrestling media, just adding the duals to ESPN won't change anything.



    I thought I posted this already, but will try again -


    Warhawk.....you are not beating a dead horse, and the above feeds into one of my major concerns. Assuming that there is a television contract in the works with ESPN, it would seem like the NCAA would like to keep this quieter. This way they can negotiate as though they are "saving wrestling" vs. "partnering with NWCA/National Duals", thus getting a bigger piece of the pie. Just a theory, albeit not a novel one at that!

  5. SENT VIA E-MAIL TO [highlight=#NaNNaNNaN]jjarnecke@ncaa.org[/highlight]

    To: NCAA Wrestling Committee
    From: Bob Mayeri
    Date: September 11, 2012
    Subject: NWCA Proposal to Reformat NCAA Wrestling Championships
    As a long-time fan of the sport I have been following the dialogue leading up to the current NWCA proposal before the NCAA. In addition to the thoughts of many fans this dialogue also includes recent communications with Rob Koll, current NWCA president. While I applaud the efforts of the NWCA to make the necessary changes to the sport of wrestling, and I fully agree with the concept of adding a dual championship format to determine a team champion, there are still certain aspects of the current proposal which I believe could be detrimental to the wrestling community. Since the NCAA is a major stakeholder in the outcome of this decision I thought I would share the following with members of the Wrestling committee.

      The wrestling community as well as the NWCA is polarized on the issue of whether to present tournament format should be changed. The preceding sentence is a given and cannot be refuted at this time! While the NWCA official position states there is no downside to this change, and believes the old team scoring system can be maintained, with the winning team now receiving a trophy as NWCA team champion, the consequences of this change are not foreseeable at this time. Many fans, including myself believe it is important that the status quo be maintained here, as it is important that less competitive programs still be allowed to “place in the top 10 of the NCAA wrestling tournament”. Furthermore, many members of the NWCA and wrestling community, in general, maintain that this type of change will contribute to the loss of additional division I programs. This is evidenced by the narrow majority that approved the present proposal. Therefore, I believe that before any such change is adopted that at a minimum the necessary marketing studies be performed by the NCAA. To do anything less would seem like a potential disservice to the NCAA, as it could jeopardize the future viability of the present format. However, as you will see in the next paragraph this is probably not necessary, as I believe the present team scoring system can be maintained without interfering with the dual meet format that is being suggested by the NWCA.

      There is presently a championship dual meet tournament (i.e. the National Duals) sponsored by the NWCA, which crowns a dual meet champion. While this is accurate, proponents of the present proposal will argue that it is not a true dual meet championship as not all teams invited will accept. This is clearly a valid point, as evidenced by Iowa’s declining last year’s invitation, as well as Oklahoma State’s previous absence from the National Duals, which spanned several years. However, this is a problem that can easily be solved without risking the viability of the present championships. The NCAA can either sanction the National Duals or partner with NWCA and brand this as the NCAA/NWCA Dual Meet Championships. Doing this would not interfere with anyone’s economic stake in the present proposal. Furthermore, since the new format would now be an NCAA event the NCAA could mandate that all member institutions participate or be ineligible for the individual tournament.
      I believe the above modifications that I am suggesting still allows the NWCA to pursue its main objective, while at the same time not creating any unnecessary risks to the present format. Hopefully, you will see things the same way and give consideration to the above.


      Bob Mayeri

  6. Seems like the smart thing to do at the moment, assuming this is true -

    What a week for wrestling fans. After announcing in early August that they'll be pursuing a dual meet team champion within the structure of the NCAA, the NWCA saw a full-scale rebellion the last few days. Leading the charge has been Penn State head wrestling coach Cael Sanderson, who has been nothing short of enraged since first learning of the idea while coaching Jake Varner to an Olympic gold in London.


    The debacle has seemed to end with the NWCA pulling support for the change by sending the NCAA wrestling committee a memo asking them to withdraw the proposal, which they will likely do. However, the event has left some scarred and some motivated for change. Emails circulating among the coaches remain pretty positive about what transpired this past week. Like a bad fight between lovers, this coaches throw-down might be just the venting process they needed to kiss, makeup, and start growing the sport.

  7. My memory may be getting foggy, but didn't Mark Perry move from up to 174 for his junior year - where Herbert and Askren were waiting for him - even though 167 was less competitive that year and he dropped back down to 167 the following year?


    that was to get away from Johny Hendricks....and after Perry found out how tough 174 was he went right back down to 165 the next year. Not the best example!

  8. Sad news...





    And the sadder news is that good citizens will eventually feed, clothe and house these thugs.


    TOSU....Hopefully not for long, as Florida is probably second to Texas in resorting to the death penalty. After reading the article about these thugs, they seem like very good candidates for capital punishment.

  9. I've been thinking more and more about the postings on this thread, and each side of the argument seems to have its merits. However, the one thing that seems to disturb me is that we presently have a great product during those 3 special days in March. We have also received greater exposure in recent years through increased coverage by ESPN. And now someone has decided that the format needs to be changed. While there is obviously no question that OUR sport needs a great deal of improvement in how it is marketed to mainstream America, I do not believe that fixing the one thing that is prospering is the best approach to solving the problem. A better solution might be to have the NWCA continue to handle the national duals and making their own deal with ESPN. The NCAA could also be involved from the standpoint of requiring all teams to participate (and could receive a sanctioning fee for doing so). However, the lions share of the $$$$ would go to the NWCA. Wouldn't this allow greater opportunity to promote wrestling to mainstream America! The opportunities here would seem endless. Although this seems like a no brainer, the more I reflect on this situation the more convinced I become that the biggest problem with our sport seems to come from our leadership.

  10. So do you guys think because of a dual team championship series held in Feb., with not all the top individual wrestlers participating, the Championships that we know now will suffer? I personally think we'll still sell out our March Madness. The Dual Championship might be the hard sell actually. I do think the Dual Series maybe can bring attention to the average college sports fan who does not follow wrestling and create new fans and possibly new money to a program. It could also make the in season duals mean a little more, not sure of that.


    Divot.....while I tend to agree with your thinking, here, I see a bigger issue which makes me uncomfortable. It seems as though ESPN might be attempting to take over artistic control of the championships, without taking on any of the risk in the event things do not work out as intended. This is of great concern to me in that I believe (per my previous post) that if things do not work out then we could lose more programs in the process, which we can ill afford to do. On the other hand if you tell me that ESPN wants to help fund some of the struggling Division I programs that are in need of resources to become more competitive then I am all for considering just how much artistic control should be given to ESPN. And for those of us who believe ESPN is doing the wrestling community a favor (i.e. without receiving anything back) with their coverage, I am simply not buying it. I have rarely seen any profit making organization give something for nothing, and I do not believe they will abandon coverage of our sport if we do not go along with their wishes. Of course this is just my opinion.

  11. I hope the decision makers have thought this through....because they could be turning a great product (the NCAA Championships held in March) into a not so great product with this decision. Also, bear in mind that programs with less resources (i.e. coaching staff and scholarships) have always had the opportunity to perform well as a team in March by placing a few individuals. This in turn would allow them to receive increased resources from their institutions, thus becoming stronger programs. Now, this may no longer be the case and could inevitably cause the loss of more Division I programs. If it were left to me I would simply change the title of the National Duals to NCAA Dual Meet Championships and leave the NCAA Championships in tact. Let the fans decide for themselves which school has the best team.

  12. Another way you might make your argument is that instead of popularity trumping the most logical choice, sometimes economics will do the same thing instead. More specifically the choice of Ness for the 2010 Hodge award might have simply been based on the fact that Robinson's advertising bill from his camps brought in significant $$$ to WIN, which influenced their decision to choose Ness over the other choices. Not saying this was the case, but in the corporate world this goes on all the time. Just a thought and nothing else.


    Again, if anyone knows of a tape and could share it, many would be appreciative.



    I just contacted Wayne Boyd who won a title in 1969 and he mentioned that he recently got a copy of his tape from ESPN who recently purchased Wide World of Sports (who used to televise the NCAAs way back when. He thought they probably would have a copy of the Jean Cornell match.

  14. How often have two wrestlers that competed in American collegiate wrestling met up with one another at the Olympics?


    If Gentry wins his match against India he'll meet Borroughs.



    Not sure how many actual matchups but 1984 had several possibilities.


    Noel Loban (GBR-Clemson), Joe Atiyeh (SYR-LSU), Orlando Caceres (PUR- Trenton State) come to mind quickly.



    I believe Lou Banach defeated Joe Atiyeh in the Gold medal match.

  15. Stove Pipe and Big Apple....hate to correct either of you gentlemen, but Carl Adams placed as a true freshman in 1969. I believe he is the first freshman to place after the freshman ban was lifted. BTW 67-68 season allowed freshman to compete in NCAA tourney, except those in the east coast. Ban on on east coast was lifted during 69-70 season.

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