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Everything posted by oldcougar

  1. I remember first seeing Ruth at PIAA states when he was this untamed, undisciplined, extremely talented 10th grader. He upset Frick of Nazareth in the quarters and had a wild match against Q Wright in the semi's that Quentin won. It was obvious that Ruth was oozing with untapped potential. Seeing where Ed Ruth ended up is very satisfying, having seen the potential develop into reality. It often doesn't work out that way. The Ruth we see today must be the result of great coaching applied to unbelievable talent coupled with just a ridiculous body. He's the complete package. When I first saw David Taylor he was a fully developed superstar. He remains a fully developed superstar. Any comparison between the two is going to be flawed. We've had the great fun of watching them on the big stage for 3 years now. I'm going to savor the coming year. We may not see their like again.
  2. You make a great point, OD. I remember going to a meet back in 67 to scout Temple and West Chester, now both without varsity wrestling but then both with their share of talent. The kid I was scouting ended up as NCAA champ in '69. They were two tough teams. The atmosphere at the meet was electric. When meet time came, the field house went totally dark, then spotlights and exciting music welcomed the teams onto the mat for warm ups. The lights never came back up until the end of the dual. The only thing one saw was the mat in high relief. Two great teams put on a show before a packed field house. That's showmanship. If we did more things like that for duals or tournaments, we would inject some real excitement into our sport. Instead we are going the other way. The PIAA finals used to have that kind of excitement --- blackened stadium, spotlights, electricity. Now they have finals on one mat with 3rd-4th, 5th-6th, 7th-8th wrestling on 3 other mats at the same time. What a bummer!
  3. very poetic. You may be right! naaaah. It's a good theory, and perhaps it applies to a small percentage of ex-wrestlers. I think it's far more likely that ex-wrestlers who aren't fans only looked upon wrestling as their backup sport, something to do in the off-season after (football/soccer/baseball) --- name one or fill in your own. I know it is anecdotal, but I often run into many of the kids I coached 20-30 years ago at wrestling meets all over the state. All of them lost their last match, unfortunately. I once traveled 80-100 miles to attend a meet between Easton, PA and Northampton, PA that had been sold out for months, back when both teams were filled with super stars. And we didn't even have tickets. My buddy walked right up to Northampton's coach (an hour before show time) and begged for tickets. And he got 'em. We found seats. When the match started I looked around and two of my ex-wrestlers were sitting directly behind me - far from home on a very cold Wednesday night. I have another theory: ex-wrestlers are a major component of wrestling's fan base.
  4. oldcougar

    Calm down

    Yes, I figured it was something like that.
  5. oldcougar

    Calm down

    you, sir, are a moron. Please learn from hammerhead and find another website to troll
  6. I saw a lot of Cary Kolat in HS (9th -12) and I've seen a lot of Chance Martsellar. It says a lot for Chance that he has been mentioned in the same breath with Kolat. Still, those that are mentioning him in the same breath should breathe more easily. Marstellar is a GREAT hs wrestler. He's got a phenomenal motor, great balance, and intelligence. I've seen few HS wrestlers to compare to Chance. However... Kolat was a force of nature. He went beyond really, really good to scary. The first time I saw him, he was a 9th grader wrestling a senior at the state tournament and I feared for the Senior's life. Seriously. Kolat was an assassin. He was brutally strong and totally aggressive. Where Chance pushes and pushes until his opponent runs out of gas trying to stop his moves, Kolat was totally uninterested in what his opponent was doing. He dictated the match from the outset. He was going for the pin. Period. Chance is perhaps seeing things from a freestyle POV and goes for take downs, throws in some tilts for seasoning, but is totally happy with a victory by points, (usually a tech, but still). Kolat wanted to pin. If he tore the other kid's head off in the process, well that's the price of victory. Two great wrestlers, two different styles. Cary Kolat was the best HS wrestler I ever saw. Chance Marstellar is easily in my top 10, maybe top 5. But he needs to build his resume at the college level. Then we can look back and make a comparison. There are plenty of HS wrestlers who don't pan out in college. I think Chance will pan out, but time will tell.
  7. I'm basically a high school wrestling fan - I've attended the Beast, NHSCA Nationals, several large x-mas tournaments, and have been at the PIAA tournament (and its qualifying tourneys) every year since '85 and many times prior to that. I've been following NCAA D1 a lot in the last several years as well, though haven't been in attendance. Thank goodness for internet video. I think it's going over the top to feel that because one doesn't follow Div 2, 3, or NAIA or Jr Colleges that fact in some way detracts from one's fandom. I personally spend a heck of a lot of my personal time on wrestling and if I wish to continue as a married man, I better not increase that time by very much. The premise of this thread doesn't work if it is: you've got to follow all levels of wrestling to be a true fan. Anyone who actually does that must not have a life. Hey, it's football season. I follow the Eagles (unfortunately) and Penn State. Just because I don't care much how Idaho State is making out, that doesn't make me a poor football fan, I don't think. Does it?
  8. yes, being a 3x Powerade Champ and 3x PIAA Champ means that Chance doesn't do big tournaments. you are so right.
  9. leshismore---- don't feed his trolling. He's a total wanker.
  10. Lehigh: If it isn't the smallest Division 1 program, it is probably the smallest quality D1 program. It's a top-notch school - approaching Ivy League quality I'd guess. And it consistently maintains a high quality wrestling program and has done so ever since I can remember. They have their ups and downs, but the ups far outnumber the downs. As a school kid we used to drive up from Philly to see Lehigh wrestle the big guys in the EIWA - Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Army, Navy - - all quality programs in the '60s. Usually Lehigh won. Strengths: Today they have kids like Robert Hamlin making the finals - and are recruiting talent across the country. Looks to me like Lehigh is the recruiting fall back after Penn State in PA, with Pitt a close 3rd. They have excellent coaches and an active and supportive alumni. And they are in the Lehigh Valley - one of the best wrestling areas in the country. They still get kids from Easton and Nazareth and BECA Hi. When in trouble, fall back on a cement mixer. Weaknesses: Lehigh is still a David trying to compete with Goliaths. Now that Sanderson is in the neighborhood, they are losing some of the super-star recruits to PSU. But the 2nd level stars ain't bad. It's a small school with big time wrestling. And always has been.
  11. I was going to say that no one is as dumb as Buck purports to be. But now I suggest we give him the benefit of the doubt. He is that dumb.
  12. Geez thanks, Medicine_man, now you've made it all clear. I've been an idiot. I take it back. One should pin oneself at every opportunity that one deems appropriate. It's an artistic endeavor. And I feel much better now, thanks. :)
  13. I really don't get it, I guess. You guys really think it is better to give up and be pinned rather than to fight off your back and get teched? Question: were any of you 'let them pin me' advocates ever coaches?
  14. So it is your contention that being pinned while behind by 15 points is better because someone else who is unaware of the facts might think the pin was a fluke? This is some kind of propaganda trick to help with your rankings? How would you personally feel about that pin? Seems to me there would be no more humiliating experience than lying on my back and having a ref slap the mat. Of course how would I know?
  15. Thank you for understanding and setting everyone straight, Mr. Superold. It's as if people didn't even read (or understand) the premise of the original post but just responded with the same old knee jerk responses. The guy fighting off the pin has already lost. There ain't no fluke cement mixer or last ditch throw on the agenda. Also getting pinned or teched will have no effect on his team's dual/tourney chances. Nobody's provided a rational justification for fighting off the pin. It's like saying you should still play to win at the 2 minute warning when you're down by 5 touchdowns, to keep playing to win during the last minute of injury time in soccer when you're down by 5 goals, to keep running as if you're gonna win the marathon when the first place guy has already crossed the finish line a few miles ahead of you, etc. Makes no sense. You are absolutely right, DF. Who cares about pride?
  16. A few here are missing DF's actual question. The situation he presented had the match already being over (down 14-0 already and then being turned for 3 more points) so there is no chance for the comebacks that some are mentioning to occur. If the wrestler escapes being pinned in the presented situation, the whistle blows and the match is terminated due to a technical fall. DF also mentioned that he was not talking about situations where preventing the pin would help your team win the dual. He's talking about the particular situation where you have already lost the match by at least a technical fall, and the winner of the dual meet is already decided. I didn't miss the point of his question. I just thought it was ridiculous or just a trolly kind of middle of the summer waste of time. There is never a reason to give up and accept a pin. If you think that it's reasonable to do so, try basketball.
  17. I think the question must have been farcical. The original poster could not have been serious. In my coaching days, I had a kid who was getting his butt kicked. He was down, I think 13-1 in the 3rd period and somehow came back to beat his opponent on points. That ain't easy. But that other wrestler must have had a bad case of deja vu the following week at another tournament. My kid was wrestling the same kid again, and again the kid was up big, 12-2. My boy came back again and beat him on points. Just two of the weirdest matches I've ever seen, wrestled in consecutive weeks by the same two kids. That other kid was probably scarred for life. __________________________________________________________________________ But this thread could be addressed in another way. The worst scenario that I've seen in this particular genre was when a kid got thrashed the whole match but kept fighting off of his back. In the last few seconds of the bout he gets turned again. The back points mean it's going to be a tech fall. But at exactly 6 minutes (HS bout) the ref calls the pin. I've seen that several times. That's a horrible way to lose.
  18. another problem with the website is that you must log in every time you want to post. In the past you could stay logged in all the time. It's annoying but not a deal-breaker.
  19. you obviously don't get the point. Wrestling is not just about winning. It is also about character. Is it your opinion that if a kid doesn't win, whichever place he takes just doesn't matter? Sounds to me like you never coached. I suppose being an old coach, I see bouts as a learning experience, not just racking up wins or losses. Learning how to come back from a disappointing loss is an important lesson, imo. If you experienced that loss in the start of a tournament and must beat 4 or 5 or 6 kids to place 3rd, then you have shown a lot about yourself as a wrestler and as a person. I personally find your post offensive.
  20. Wrestling back to take 3rd is often a tremendous achievement. It means a kid has had the rug pulled out from under him and still can regroup and recover from the disappointment. Lots of times you see big stars get upset and then lose their next bouts to lesser talents because their dream had already crumbled. Back in my youth coaching days, I had a 10 year old who wrestled on a Friday morning in the pigtail round of a two day tournament and went out lethargic and uninvolved. He lost the bout. I usually gave such kids encouragement, but him I told that he better be ready to wrestle the next bout and every bout after that. He racked up 5 straight wins and placed 3rd in Eastern Nationals. I guess he got the message. I think I was prouder of him for placing 3rd than I would have been if he had won the tournament. It was just an exercise in character. 6 years later he was National Prep Champ.
  21. Seems to me I recall ESPN3 televising the finals of Disney Duals. Young Guns Black vs. NY Kong
  22. only 3 years (all that was allowed back then) but: Mike Caruso, Lehigh vs. Bob Fehrs, Michigan 65 Caruso d Fehrs 8-5 NCAA Finals 66 Caruso d Fehrs 9-6 NCAA Finals 67 Caruso d Fehrs 7-6 NCAA Finals that's a rivalry. Caruso was from Jersey. Fehrs was from Pennsylvania.
  23. It's a combination of both. Penn State was the perfect opportunity. Cael was the perfect guy to take advantage of that opportunity. PSU had some great talent that never seemed to get fully developed. The area around Penn State - NJ/PA etc - is a tremendous recruiting ground that was always diluted among a large number of colleges, local and national. Cael has the biggest name in wrestling. He did his apprenticeship at ISU but was now ready to take the next step. A match made in heaven.
  24. It is not really a population issue. The biggest population center in PA had never had a state champion until this year. The 2nd biggest had a champ last year and I cannot remember if it ever had a champ before then. (As an aside --- consider the implications of totally untapped Philadelphia and Pittsburgh suddenly becoming hotbeds of wrestling!) What matters is quality of wrestling by area. PSU is right in the middle of an incredible wrestling belt: New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, Delaware - all states with superior to dominant wrestling histories. It's the tradition of wrestling in these states that gives PSU its opportunity-- an opportunity that they never fully took advantage of. They also had to compete with Pitt, Lehigh and to some extent Syracuse and the PA state schools, so the talent was often diluted - not to mention a lot of the really big stars going west. The entrance of Cael Sanderson into the mix made the Nits one of the most attractive programs in the country. The fact that there were several incumbent wrestlers on the PSU team that were loaded with talent gave Cael a jump start. He took the guys remaining from the old program to the next level. He brought along some of his own recruits during his kick-off year. And his first recruiting class happened to be in synch with one of the PIAA's best classes in years. It all came together and looks like it may be self sustaining. Picking off the occasional superstar from Texas or California is the inevitable result of the best wrestlers wanting to go to the best program. It isn't population, it's tradition.
  25. NJMarty: thanks for your whiny troll. You bring so much to this website.
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