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patmilkovich

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  1. patmilkovich

    Clarion 1973

    J, As noted in the article, there are many more examples of non D1 wrestlers winning or placing...wish we could go back to that inclusion
  2. patmilkovich

    Clarion 1973

    D2 and D3Final .docx An article I wrote for AWN several years ago regarding the impact of D2 and D3 on the NCAA championships.
  3. patmilkovich

    NWCA All Star Classic

    If one goes back and looks at the timing of the E/W All-Star match, which began in '67, you will notice the attendance numbers are pretty interesting. Seems to me the best time for the event would be Jan or early Feb when the rankings have had some time to settle, the interest is high, and the NCAA's are just around the corner, adding to the appeal. Actually, the numbers from '67-'71 are very interesting since those were held post NCAA...healthy numbers too! Pre-season just doesn't seem to be a good time because so many things factor into reasons not to participate, AA's/Champions have graduated, risk-reward, conditioning and competing in the best possible form won't be expected until closer to the qualifiers or mid-season, some invitee's might not even be on the radar come March, etc. I understand the desire to make the sport popular and attractive to the masses, but wrestling is a niche sport and the fans are pretty dedicated to a good product but sometimes too many tweaks becomes....too many tweaks. Add anything you want to to the meet, but the time of year is critical for generating interest, and mid-season seems the most logical to me. IMO of course.
  4. patmilkovich

    Condolences to Pat Milkovich

    Appreciate your kind remarks very much. He had a great run and we gave him a great send off. Have a look on Youtube - "Remembering Mike Milkovich" my nieces did an incredible job of putting together that video in a very short and hectic 4 days. Thanks again.
  5. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    obviously I don't know your vintage or wrestling background, but I enjoy discussing wrestling. That part of the discussion is mine...The rest of it is not.
  6. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    Snotty? Nope, just a matter of fact. I almost enjoyed that discussion and I can see why many folks don't participate on these kinds of forums. And thanks for the kind words Coach J, my family would appreciate that....hope we helped you to have a little more success in a very complicated, tough, and difficult sport.
  7. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    apparently I really misinterpreted the goal of wrestling. For me, getting my hand raised against opponents, who were way better than me in many ways, was my goal. Since I only had two falls in high school and two in college, they should probably remove me from all four halls of fame that somehow felt compelled to induct me. You win Mr. GockeS. Perhaps you should take a listen to my MSU HOF speech...you may learn something.
  8. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    not to belabor the subject...I don't think I stated the object of wresting was riding....your interpretation...I think I was quite clear...the object of wrestling is to get your hand raised (at least that was my objective) and the object of being on bottom is to get out/reverse, which means you control that position and minimize the top man's r/t or tactics to control you. The object of being on top is to control the bottom man and minimize his ability to escape/reverse and in the meantime accrue r/t, which is a reward for your control. The consequences to not freeing yourself from bottom are: frustration, riding time, fatigue, you're not scoring, time is running down, and he's in your head because you can't get out. All of that affects other aspects of the match as it goes on. obviously I don't know your vintage or wrestling background, but I enjoy discussing wrestling. i don't, however, care to converse with folks, who when they don't care for someone else's opinion, get snotty or rude. Rodeo only crossed your mind, not mine. Actually, the guy at the rodeo gets rewarded for staying on (control) and he gets penalized when the bull/horse throws him off (control).
  9. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    well, I just see it as wrestling smart. Kind of like golfers who are one or two strokes ahead generally don't keep attacking the pin (for a multitude of reasons), especially one that's tucked in front just over a trap on on the side of the green where there's more trouble if he misses....they aim for the middle. Play smart and let the guys chasing take the risk because they have to. And I don't blame the athlete for manipulating the rules to his advantage, like stalling. It's the referee's responsibility to call the match within the confines of the rules of the game. Yep, some calls are very subjective, but that's not the fault of the participants. I have witnessed enough matches where the dominant wrestler ended up losing or getting decked because he was still forcing the action when there was no need. If I have done all the things necessary to have a lead, it's up to him to force the action and it's up to me to protect it my lead. And whether I do that by using techniques and strategies that don't subject me to being vulnerable and I neutralize/limit his offense and tactics..otherwise known as stalling, then that's his problem not mine. HE should have gotten ahead of me. Stalling was one of the best weapons this walk-on ever had against many wrestlers way better than me in other ways. It just looked like I was actually still trying to be offensive... it's an art and a science just like setups, riding, defense, etc... Elimination of rt in high school was a mistake in my opinion.
  10. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    not sure why folks get so contorted over stalling. It's simple to me. If you're not good at it, it's obvious and you should get dinged. If you're good at it, and it's obvious, you don't get dinged. Like any other technique or strategy, if you can get an opp out of position with a great set up, react to a stimulus, it's obvious and you probably score more often...if you aren't good at those things, and it's obvious, you probably don't score much. I love when they yell, "Stalling on top!" Well, who's fault is that? First of all, if he's stalling on top and it's obvious, he will get dinged. Second of all, it's the responsibility of the bottom man to make it complicated for the top man to control him. That's his job! If he's bad at it, and it's obvious, he stays on bottom and top man is rewarded, at the least, with RT (among other things). Conversely, it's the top man's job to make it complicated for the bottom man to escape or reverse. That's his job. It's called dominance. Weak folks get dominated. It's what happens when one or the other does not diligently practice, have knowledge, or understand the different facets fo the game. Whether it's offense, defense, top, or bottom...do your job. If they are both doing their jobs, the match can be pretty exciting. Make all the silly rules you want but people will always find ways to stall within those parameters. It's what smart folks do.
  11. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    ok GockS....not sure what DF means...but he was a better than average high school coach...
  12. patmilkovich

    Stalling solution?

    Teach, You are absolutely correct! Stalling is a part of the game and a great weapon when used correctly. Back in the day, my dad incorporated that tactic into our practices. It's a science and an art and we rehearsed and drilled it just like any other technique or strategy. We practiced how to "kill time" or "keep the ref happy" when we were ahead by using tactics that limited the offensive opportunities of our opponent or we made it appear that we were actually still trying to be offensive when we weren't. We were just killing time until the ref would finally realize the scheme and make a stall call....which usually had no effect on the outcome of the match since it was at or near the end of the match. We also had to learn how to expose an opponent's stalling. We spent a considerable amount of time practicing how to score on the edge or prevent an opponent from getting out of bounds. Conversely, we had to learn how to use the edge of the mat to our advantage by discreetly using the oob for us to get out, and not get called. When you don't stall well, you get called rather quickly. Do it well and you won't get figured out until it makes no difference in the match. Generally, I believe that you don't beat really good kids by a blowout...you beat them by 1, 2, 3 points. we were taught that when you get ahead of a great opponent, you stall. There is absolutely no reason that I would need to keep attacking if I'm ahead. It's his responsibility to figure out how to score now. Do just enough to keep the ref happy and frustrate your opponent. Many times that tactic led to him taking a risk and then getting scored on again.. The best rule they ever had for stalling imo, especially on the feet, was back in the 70's when they implemented the "two steps back" rule. Take two steps back and you got hit for stalling. Sometimes that happened in the first 10 seconds of the match! It forced everyone to stay more centered and actually helped Gable create that damn juggernaut at Iowa. And you had that stall call hanging over your head for the next 7:50 sec.
  13. patmilkovich

    How about this "throwback"

    A passage from "ChampionshipEDGE" Sports Leadership Series "Developing Good Sportsmanship"... I would also refer you to the legendary Gable/Owings match of 1970...both wrestlers pure class at the conclusion. "Sports competition offers many opportunities to athletes. It pits two opponents, whether they are individuals or teams, against one another. These opponents must depend on their speed, technique, strength, determination, conditioning, and mental acuity to play the game. At the end, one will win and one will lose. It could be because of a missed call by the referee, or it could be a mental mistake, or it could be an ill-planned strategy, or it could be an injury. Any number of things can and do happen to determine the outcome of a competition. Some things that happen are out of the athletes’ control; other things are completely under their control. Good sportsmanship is one thing all athletes and teams can and should control." "Losses during the season can happen to even the best athletes and teams. Usually, a loss makes them upset, angry, and frustrated. How many times have you seen players and, on occasion, coaches kick things, swear, and throw tantrums after a disappointing loss? Of course, all competitors would much rather win than lose; however, how you handle setbacks or a loss speaks volumes about not only your sportsmanship but also your character and maturity. Sportsmanship also involves not blaming other people for your defeat. Sportsmanship means taking ownership for your performance. Sometimes by losing, you can actually win respect because of the class and dignity you exhibit. Great teams and players use losses as their motivation and “wake-up call” to perform at a higher level." "The cliché, “Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser,” totally misses the point. Every time two athletes or two teams compete, one will win and one will lose, but if both have tried their best and given their all, each has won the respect of the other, each has earned the appreciation of the crowd, and each has instilled pride in his coach, his family, and himself. Good sportsmanship knows no equal and has no substitute."
  14. patmilkovich

    Comparing dynasties

    Thanks TFBJR, but I'm not sure that was necessary...back to the original intent of my post. I was responding to the suggestion that it was easier for Gable/Iowa to win "back then" vs. now with Cael. Back then," there were still teams that were stacked with great wrestlers but there were more opportunities for other great athletes to compete somewhere else. I believe that 4x DII NCAA champion Joey Davis from Notre Dame College (174) would have made an impact in DI had we still allowed that division to compete in the DI championships. My other analogy would be the Midlands tournament. "Back then," the Midlands was considered to be the absolute toughest tournament in the US because there were so many post-collegiate champions/AA's, Olympians, World Champions, Sunkist Kids, Mayor Daley, etc., that would compete, in addition to many of the top schools entering 3-4 wrestlers at many wts, more good wrestlers spread around. Not that way anymore. There were more scholarships. Schools weren't limited to 9.9 and rosters weren't limited. It was always rumored that everyone at Iowa State was on scholarship because Nichols was very wealthy. I also think it's easier to AA now since there are fewer schools and 8 places. In '79 they increased it to 8. Anyway, as I said, Cael's abilities are nothing to sneeze at. Great guy, great coach, great recruiter, great role model, but I would still submit that the era when Gable coached was harder to win the NCAA's because the quality and depth was spread around to other schools in addition to DII/DIII, just like the Midlands then v. now.
  15. patmilkovich

    Comparing dynasties

    BTF, By the number of posts you must be a better at arguing than me and probably way more knowledgeable... I still don't see your logic, but since you're handpicking your bracket, if you added Chris Taylor, Kurt Angle, Gwiz, Tab Thacker, Banach, and Steve Mocco...perhaps you might see my point. Anyway, you win, I give up.
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