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Everything posted by conanNY

  1. I agree... The 'no reaction time' NRT has added a new element... (one that I'm not in total support of ..at least not yet). The NRT has allowed for wrestlers who are NOT very good 'Finishers'.. to score TD's on poor efforts... Better wrestlers are ABLE to SECURE a TD "beyond reaction time".. poor wrestlers (or when wrestling better wrestlers) are not able to do so. The powers that be.. wanted more scoring... and they've got it... but as a byproduct of this rule.. we now have more reason for the video review... I'm not sold on it yet, ... but at least the coaches are MORE understanding when it happens AGAINST their guy... and that's a plus when you don't have to argue a point about a call/rule.
  2. Agreed.. the whining about stalling is a joke... everybody is stalling... and mostly the other guy... What you propose will inevitably turn into a penalty calling match... There will be more points scored via penalty's than any actual wrestling. ".... 5 seconds on the head.... no hand fighting... blah, blah, blah.. " you think you hate refs now... good god... you've just suggested that the officials put on a singlet & shoes, and become the major scorer.... When two top wrestlers face each other... they wrestle with a lot more caution.. and less reckless abandon... The naysayers always scream Stalling... stalling.. Once in a while, yeah... but most of the time, it's hard fought wrestling... and NOT doing STUPID things.. Yeah.. there is a lot of stalling... but your alternative is a ref's OPINION of who is stalling.. having to do the counting.. 'was that 5 seconds on the tie up... blah.. blah... " The naysayers ALREADY hate the way staling is called (or NOT being called)... now you want the ref to have MORE INPUT... ... you need to re-think this.. 2 cents worth...
  3. ... I'm not too sure of that... I've had both Taylor and Jordan this season.. I'd LOVE to see that match. Taylors is just outstanding...but I have to say.. Jordan is a machine... !!! The kid is amazing on his feet... and I think might be able to take it to Taylor on their feet. The question would be... what about on the mat. Jordan is no push over on the mat, but I not sure if Taylor would be too much for him on top... again.. it would be a nice one to see... !!
  4. Yeah... It's been a rule... since 2011-12 season... (I don't recall if it was in the season's book prior to this... I'm too lazy to look that up) Anything within the Cylinder, of EITHER wrestler, is In bounds... Official had GREAT positioning... which is why he got it right.. !!
  5. They Did This in the early 80's... it was a DISMAL failure.... !! Officials would make any stall call in the first 30 seconds (regardless of any stalling or even the correct guy)...JUST to get it out of the way... guys were getting screwed all the time... Guys were winning matches by BIG scores and being VERY aggressive... Yet.. were hit for stalling in the first period for absolutely NO reason... it was terrible... !!
  6. YES... we need HWTS... why exclude them... ?? I'm not saying it's going to be everyone's cup of tea... but what gives anyone the right to say they can't wrestle.. (that might boarder line on not allowing women to wrestle.. but that's another topic) If you expect HWTS to wrestle in the same way light weights, or mid weights wrestle... it aint' gonna' happen... HWT wrestling is almost a completely different sport. The strategy is TOTALY different. You can't expect the same speed and dexterity that smaller guys have... it cant' happen, just by physical stature. EVERYONE realizes that 90% of the time... the guy who shoots in.. is going to be 'spun' behind... you know it's going to happen... !! So why do you expect them to shoot double legs, or go under on a single leg... how about imagining a twisted scramble situation... LOL.. A DOUBLE STALL at the HWT division... that's a laugh... a double stall will encourage NOTHING... !!! Why do people insist that calling a stall will 'MAKE' a wrestler wrestle... ??? Maybe.. just maybe.. a stall call will encourage a wrestler to be more aggressive... but he double stall encourages nothing... especially at HWT... "I'm not going to shoot unless he shoots...." So... we should just DQ all HWTS... ??? nahhh... Learn to live with the reality of HWT wrestling... it's slow and lethargic.. it's waiting for that open opportunity and waiting and waiting... and every so often there WILL be a double leg.. or single leg... It's a different sport.. with different strategy... Every so often we get the guy who HAS the physical stature to move like the lighter weights.... BUT... when he gets an opponent that is basically the really large HWT... his strategy has to change... If you go into a HWT match with the expectations of a 157 pounder... you will ALWAYS be dissapointed... If you go into a HWT match expecting HWT wrestling..it often CAN be entertaining... I'M sure the OT SINGLE 30 second ride out was replace by the 30 / 30 OT ride out is a DIRECT result of HWT matches...
  7. Subject: DQ'ed a wrestler for being too aggressive but doing nothing To clarify.... Fleeing still exists... It's just no longer a 1 pt Technical violation... as you stated...it has been rolled into the Stall chart... So you still can't flee... or ATTEMPT to flee... or push/pull a guy off the mat in an attempt to avoid wrestling. Bottom line for both guys... stay on the damn mat.. I'm very happy to hear that. That was always the one thing I couldn't stand about watching Jared Rosholt wrestle, he would sometimes even grab the edge of the mat and pull himself out of bounds and there were times when he wasn't even warned for it. Not just picking on him, as I've seen other wrestlers do it but he was notorious for it. Which was sort of ironic, seeing that his brother Jake never pulled such tatics and as far as I've seen neither has Blake. I remember at earlier NCAA tournaments that I'd go to, how many guys got a 1 or 2 point lead and then would play the edge of the mat and every time they'd go to get taken down it'd be out of bounds and the other guy wouldn't score. Oh, it used to drive me nuts. 'Fleeting the Mat' is a pet peeve of mine.. BIG TIME... !! I get frustrated watching wrestlers get themselves out of 'jeopardy' by 'getting a fresh start' Often times a top wrestler will break an opponent down.. and after 10..15.. maybe even 25 seconds FINALY secure a good NF or PIN hold... and then the bottom wrestler just crawls OOB in order to get out of that situation... !!! Conversely, a bottom wrestler builds a base.. gains hand control.. gets to his feet... ONLY to be 'PULLED' OOB... !!! I wear the stripes... and I call this OFTEN... This weekend... (first bout of the day... ) Bottom wrestler gets to his feet, near the OOB line.. top wrestler has 40 FEET OF MAT IN FRONT OF HIM.... 40 FRIGGIN' FEET.....He lifts him up and.. THEN proceeds to walk BACKWARDS 3 STEPS, pulling them BOTH OOB.... !!! Your Damn right.... I called stalling... "..son, you made NO attempt to remain In Bounds..." I've called this on Dylan Alton in finals of the Colligate Open Nationals... It happens ALL the time.. BUT... Remember.. there are POLITICS on every level.. A fellow official... a close DI Dual....in Sudden Victory.. Wrestler does an arm drag and is LOCKED behind his opponent in the CENTER 10' circle... 3 seconds later they are OOB... Why... because the guy CLEARLY RAN OOB to Safety... CLEARLY.... !!! Coach went NUTS.... but he stuck to his call... He has NEVER worked that school again... Coaches want it called... BUT not on their guy. In order for these guys to STAY at the National tournament.. .they cannot make waves... which is why, at the NCAA's Fleeing is a VERY RARE CALL... !!! I think in the first 3 weeks of this season... I'm sure I've called it 6-8 times... I'm the anomaly.. I will and DO call this.... and yes, I get "... I've never heard of such a call..." over the last 10 years of so, I've had to 'back off' of my position a bit.. as most other guys will NOT call this... and to stay alive as a guy in stripes... you sometimes have to go with the flow - BUT... when it is obvious... I'll call it.. On to the next bout... :)
  8. IMO... Because 'Push Out' is not wrestling.... (most often) The action required to 'score' a push out is just that... pushing... I am NOT endorsing stalling... BUT... by just trying to push an opponent OOB is in no way attempting to achieve the goal of wrestling .. securing a TD - getting a Pin Fall.. There is NO attempt to score wrestling points... ie... a TD... a reversal... an escape, and even more importantly a NF or FALL... and I'll say it again... It is just that... Pushing. Colligate wrestling IS about scoring 'wrestling' points IN ALL 3 POSITIONS. From my observations... proponents of the push out rule... Generally... Generally... don't like riding or riding time. Mat wrestling is a major component of Colligate wrestling... if you remove it... we become Freestyle. I like BOTH styles of wresting, we may be the only country wrestling 'Folk Style' but I believe it is the superior of the styles... (that's my opinion).. but that doesn't mean I haven't entertained the idea of the 'push out' in Colligate wrestling, but I don't think it would good addition. International country's obviously don't share this position... but ... They NEVER even try to compete Folk Style... cuz.. basically they'd get destroyed. so of coarse they don't like fold style. Keep the push out in Free Style.. that's where it belongs.
  9. To clarify.... Fleeing still exists... It's just no longer a 1 pt Technical violation... as you stated...it has been rolled into the Stall chart... So you still can't flee... or ATTEMPT to flee... or push/pull a guy off the mat in an attempt to avoid wrestling. Bottom line for both guys... stay on the damn mat..
  10. Still nothing... ???? Also... Anyone have Garrett - Mega's Binghamton final... ??
  11. Anybody have a link to last years NCAA Garrett Delgado Semi match... ?
  12. Cement mixer... or whatever... But to be honest... He's choking the crap out of the guy... in at least 2 of the 3 clips... it's illegal. (the one clip is hard to see from the camera angle).
  13. The situation beginning at 1:23 does not belong on this video. The "scoring" wrestler is on both knees, the opponent is in a tripod position, and the scoring wrestler is not even remotely behind him. I suspect that this situation will not be called a takedown this season, even though it appears on the video. Two questions that came from these clips were: 1. What about the Wizzer... (now the video clip #3 is a Poor example of this) A good wizzer.. the clip on the video shows a wizzer... but the scoring wrester has really defeated the wizzer in this example. 2. at least 2 of these clips show the scoring wrestler to have ONLY gained a 90 degree angle.. he has NOT obtained a position BEHIND the wrestler... Hmmm.... These questions were asked... and they were not addressed... Hoping that now that they have come into question, they will be addressed at the next up coming presentation... IMO clips 1,2, & 6 could be TD even based on the 'old rule'.... Possibly a little leeway given in clip #1, as it was an OT situation... and maybe he wanted to see a 'CLEAR - no questions asked' TD... Iffy TD's in OT, are NOT good... don't leave the crowd shaking it's head.. "really.. that was lame.."
  14. I believe that's exactly what you will see...!! I think most people get this... but what it has done is, it makes the position Control. I know Rakkasan91 still stated is what the rule IS INTENDED to accomplish... : #1. Control must still be gained, even if a wrestler touches his hand. The takedown definition is basically the same as it has always been with reaction time being eliminated and the requirement for a significant portion of weight to be borne by the defensive wrestler's hand(s) to establish control. Control still has to be established for a takedown but the hand portion of the rule will be quick. BUT... the rule CLEARLY states (and ONLY states) this: "...It is considered control if the defensive wrestler's hand comes in contact with the mat." SO... I have NO say if there was control or not.... it's in black and white... So... I don't understand why McCormick used that explanation of still having to demonstrate control... the rule...doesn't state that... (I'm not saying I like this... but a coach has a VERY legitimate argument here.) I believe the intent is to demonstrate some kind of control... but the way it is written.... you don't have to demonstrate control.... I can see the argument at the table now... : "yes coach his hand did touch the ground as he was rolling through.. but your guy clearly had no control..... so NO TD" (as the coach pulls out the rules book) "... the book doesn't say ANYTHING about demonstrating control..... Control is AUTOMATIC when his hand touches the mat.... it say's so right here... !!!" I'm going to say... for about 99% of the calls... you will see 2TD called... (the book supports this).. and 1% of the time... it will be called NO TD ... (where common sense supports that... )
  15. The TD rule .... (hand on the mat) "...It is considered control if the defensive wrestler's hand comes in contact with the mat." It is NOW considered 'control' by application.... The Grand Pubah's have now 'dumbed down' good wrestling vs poor wrestling. A good wrestler knows HOW to FINISH (by gaining control beyond reaction time), poor wrestlers couldn't do it. So now we are going to reward wresters with LESS skills (or lack of skill). We WILL see more scoring ... a lot more... !! (I guess that was the intended goal) BUT... We will also see the combination of TD - Escape awarded so fast... that official won't have his hand up for the 2pt TD ... and an Escape will be already on the way... (and I'm sure... the HC on his way to the table) We have developed some of the greatest 'Funk' wrestlers ever... !!! A lot of this will be now lost... (I don't know... I enjoyed a lot of it... I found it exciting. !!) It will also dumb down the difference between a good official (one who understands control), and those want to be's, who no longer have to understand anything... just a position. Some of the BEST calls I've seen (and made).. have been no call's (where the situation is often given a chance to "Play Out"). It was also noted... when asked about a TD to an "Immediate" Grandby - where the hand touches as he rolls..... that those 'up stairs', stated.... "Well, there was Clearly No Control"..... and left it at that... !! So... What does that mean... ??? Take that one step further... what about a Grandby - when no hand touches... ?? I guess the next step... Since we only have to have control by positioning... how far off is the position of 'SEPARATION' without gaining neutrality going to be considered an escape. ??? I will say this... although in the past, when we have had some dynamic rules changes.. and I did not care for them... SOMETIMES... SOMETIMES... I have later learned to like them.... Maybe this one... ?? only time will tell..
  16. Guys, everything Tessari did that violated rules happened DURING season. Im not sure why some of u are harping on this "off season for someone of legal age" nonsense. He is gone because he would do stupid **** DURING the season like, cut class, late/miss practice, bars, partying, ect... Has abs nothing to do with Ryans religious beliefs. There are plenty of great wrestlers who were able to have their fun but at same time take care of business on the mat, at tOSU as well as across the country. Tessari just was inable to juggle the 2 like the others. Ryan understands these r college kids and a certain degree of "mischief" is likely, but they very damn well be able to put in the work and perform on the mat. Tessari took part in the mischief, and did NOT take care of biz on the mat. Then he was ARRESTED a week out from NCAAs, i mean cmon, its a no brainer. GONE BAM... You Nailed it... !!!
  17. I see... I simple transfer of rules from Freestyle to Folkstyle is a little bit more complicated... But my premise that Folkstyle keep the 15 pt. spread is the same. (there needs to be a reasonable gap between regular decisions, bonus points for Majors, bonus points for Techs, and of coarse the ultimate in points for the Fall. We need to keep Team Scoring viable for College (and High School) teams. I'm going to claim ignorance here...: do the European schools have duals... ?? or are there only individual (non-team) tournaments ... ?? or do they only have national tournaments... To be honest... I've never heard of a dual between European university's ... but that may be due to my lack of knowledge of European schools.
  18. Ah Yes... one of the reasons I'm encouraged... !!
  19. Hmmm... I have to say.. with these rules changes, I'm finally a bit optimistic for freestyle wrestling. I haven't been a fan of Freestyle Rules ... well... let's just say for a long, long time. It had gotten to the point where I completely stopped caring what they did (and based on what has happened at the Olympic level, apparently so did some others.) It has literally imploded on itself. The constant changing of rules "to make freestyle wrestling more exciting", has been a miserable FAILURE. I tried to 'tune' back into Freestyle for the last Olympic games,.. and I was at a loss for a large portion of the rules (and I've been in wrestling for almost 40 years). I look forward to seeing the "new Freestyle" wrestling, and hope to become a BIG fan of it as well. I also hope that we keep in mind that Folkstykle is not Freestyle, and that we don't try to make become the same. Folkstyle wrestling has elements that Freestyle will never have, for me; mat wresting and conditioning at the highest level make it what it is (and I'm sure we could name some more). If we remove these, we decimate what I believe is the core of Folkstyle wrestling. I LIKE that we can have 2 (3 if you include Greco) forms of wrestling here in the US... I'm just glad to see that an REAL effort has been made to make Freestyle a style of wresting that is not a joke anymore. Now I can sit back and enjoy both. !!
  20. So... if the Freestyle rule is moved to Folkstyle I a guy hits a head and arm (head lock or any other TD to NF) to a 5 count NF.... 2+3.... he wins by Tech fall... A one hit wonder... I think you have to leave the tech at 15 pt advantage. anything less... it becomes too easy to tech.. and it also makes the spread between the Major bonus points and bonus points for the tech too close. IMO
  21. Arghhhh.... Again... things not being well thought out.. As MUCH as I LOVE the idea of expanding the wrestling area... The NF thing is NOT possible. Taking this to the extreme... : Just assume that a pin situation exists were the ONLY portion in-bounds are the feet - Perpendicular to the OOB line (NF/Pin situation literally 4-5 feet away from the line). The official is down on the mat looking for NF/Pin... and the guy who has his feet in-bounds.. NOW pulls them OOB... HOW the hell is the official supposed to see this ..!!!! His head is buried 4-5 feet away looking for the FALL.. Now he calls a fall.. and the coaches are jumping and screaming at the table... !!! (and justifiably so).. The whole reason a portion of the Pinning area HAD to be in-bounds or on the line.. was so that the official COULD monitor the OOB... Poorly though out. The Stall DQ... why it was removed in the first place, was beyond me... The rational that reff's wouldn't call it because they did not want to DQ a wrester.. HUH.. ?? If the kid is 'stinking up the joint' that bad.. he ought to be DQ'd The Reaction time thing... ehhh.. .I'm not sold on this one.. There are a LOT of situations where there is absolutely NO control, and an IMEDIATE return to an OBVIOUS neutral situation in less than a second... NOW we are going to GIVE AWAY takedowns to guys who are really poor neutral wrestlers... This has the potential to KILL a lot of great scramble wrestlers... 2 cents...
  22. 'At'...'Of'... Funny... the SUNY (State University of New York) system insists on 'At Buffalo'... Those in charge of the University want 'Of Buffalo' (It's believed that 'Of' is an effort of the University to distance itself from the other SUNY schools as an elite DIV I program). Putting my personal feelings aside about who, what, and why various coaches have been dismissed (that's an entirely new thread). UB now has the task of hiring a new wrestling coach to direct them into the future. It took the administration exactly 11 days to dismiss the basketball head coach, do a national search, interview candidates, hire, and have a press conference. Speed of lightning... !! It has been 5 weeks (35 days) since the news of the wrestling position. As you point out... the list of candidates is solid, and the future potential is great... I wish them all the success, UB could use it, as well as DIV I wrestling. Turner Gill... Don't be so quick to pat Gill on the back for his UB days... Gill had 2 (out of 4) successful seasons at UB... After which, Gill truly believed he was a candidate for the HUGE Nebraska program. The only reason that Gill's name was even mixed into that thought... was because of his college playing days at Nebraska. Gill had virtually NO experience, and had NO real track record of success (2 years just doesn't cut it - not for a program that big). His coaching style has been quoted as: .."Coach Gill is a man of integrity, character, class, faith and we all love him."... Yes.. he was liked.. and a soft spoken man of faith... Where did he go... how did he do... ?? He provided 2 of the WORST seasons at the University of Kansas....being outscored 938 - 436 ... Dismissed from Kansas.. and now at Liberty University... I wouldn't say he's been on a path of success... After Gill.. UB hired Jeff Quinn... Quinn's style is 180 different that Gill's was.. The reality .. Quinn walked into a program that lost a majority of Senior starters... A number of underclassmen (starting Running Back, and Quarterback) left even before Quinn had a chance to start coaching... I think this year will be Quinn's 'tell tale' year. SO... I think the jury is still out.. about losing Gill... Let's see if UB wrestling can be a success story.
  23. Hmmm... Now Travis Lee / Jordan Oliver....
  24. The frustration with the Stalemate rule, isn't in the RULE... it's in the APPLICATION and/or interpretation of it. A 'TRUE' stalemate is where neither wrestler can't improve with out giving up their position. Over many years, it has migrated it's way to "let's get a fresh start". EVEN at the NCAA tournament it is being called incorrectly (thus leading to many fans frustration with stalling) Don't mistake a stoppage and return to the center, due to a lack of action on the edge call for a stalemate. This IS the correct call.... (but often times the signal for a stalemate is show - which is incorrect) In the neutral position - 50/50 collar tie ups, over/under tie ups, IS often Stalemated... WHY...?? There used to be a REGULAR official at the DI's that would call these stalemates ALL DAY LONG... He even produced a DVD in order to TEACH his officiating techniques.. In one match he called 8 Stalemates in the 1st period... in neutral tie ups...WHERE there was NO Stalemate. That's an average of about a stalemate every 22 seconds... !! Those Neutral stalemates are outright ridiculous, and really don't have ANY rule to support their call. There was one match (either in the semi's of finals) that a stalemate was called when the top wrestler had a collar and waist ... I was floored.... I can't get away with that call...it's kind of a use it or loose it deal... it was a stall call... gone bad... By calling some of these stalemates (when there isn't one.) This leads all of our "...we need more stall calls.." posters to stand up and scream.. A coach once said to me (after his top wrestler was called for stalling for 'riding' legs with NO improvement), "...what's he supposed to do.. take the legs out... ", and you guessed it... I responded with "....well, yeah.." Mind you, the leg ride was stalemated 2x prior to the Stall call... I'm just stating this... : You may think it... but this is the reality... The coaches may say they want more stalling... BUT not when it's their guy.... Therefore, the result it that there are MORE and MORE bizarre stalemates being called. If the coaches could live with more stall calls (against their own guys) ... we'd probably see some of these Stalemates turned into stall calls... or even better... the wrestlers would voluntarily improve their position.
  25. I love the fact that every year there are sooooo many rules suggestions. Not that they are bad, but the problem with most of the suggestions, is that they are not well thought out. Having a rule is great...but can it be administered ?? Is it even possible for the official, coaches, teams, etc.. to implement, monitor, and execute the rule. Then you have to even see if the rule is succeeding with it's original intent. Also.. are we making a rule because another rule is NOT being enforced (history has shown, that would be a bad idea). A great example is "calling a fall or NF as long as part of the wrestlers are in bounds" Imagine two wrestlers in NF or a Fall situation and ONLY the FEET are inbounds (Perpendicular to the OOB -6 feet away) How on earth is that ONE official supposed to see NF criteria, or Pin Criteria AND at the same time keep looking up to see if anyone's feet are STILL in bounds... ??? Did the feet go OOB before the 2 count or 5 count.. etc..etc.. Think about the logistics,.. most of these ideas are interesting in theory.. but not practicality. Lastly... College wrestling is 3 positions... ALL 3... not just TD's. Maybe you believe that the neutral position is more exciting... BUT mat wresting is PART of the sport. Don't keep suggesting ways to eliminate mat wrestling. That would just be stupid. There were some AMAZING NF's scored at the NCAA's this year... points that WON matches. This years NCAA tournament was arguably one of the MOST exciting ever...!! If you eliminate Mat wrestling .. you just become Freestyle.. I have NO interest in College wrestling becoming freestyle...
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