hammer reacted to KeithLowrance in Rich Sanders
Thanks for the kind words. You were always a good friend and great teammate. Your ability to perform in matches was matchless. One of the things that I ( and Dale Carr) were always proud of was that we taught you the Granby and you used it 3 times against Yatabe. I loved the thread you had going on the old forum about coaches etc. I should have jumped in, I have some good stories ones too.
It is interesting you brought Uetake's name up. He and I are good friends. The friendship started at the World training camp in 1966 at U of Michigan. Basically we got in a major fight after I took him down 3 straight times( he claims it was the only time he was ever taken down, I think he meant by an American). He punched me and I tore into him and knocked him down. Myron Roderick and Doug Blubaugh pulled us apart. We wrestled everyday for about 10 days, I definitely held my own.
Stan, I remember the 72 trials well. I agree, the match between Donnie and Rich at 125.5 was as good as any match I've ever seen. They were both wrestling with the Gold Medal in mind. Both had previously won Silver. Donnie was my teammate for 3 years at MSU. We worked out everyday.
hammer reacted to IronChef in A case for duals determining the champion
Part of the appeal of the tournament is that it is the format where the incentives for everyone involved line up perfectly. The coaches want to score the most points possible, and the wrestlers want to individually finish as high as they can. Also, there is no tomorrow. Nobody gets held out with injury in order to save something for later. Every wrestler is trying his hardest to win every match. Nobody goes on the mat with instructions to avoid giving up bonus points. Coaches don't have to weigh success in a dual meet a week or two before the conference tournament versus success in the individual tournament.
Your first point about duals being more fan friendly is correct. After that, things get fuzzy. Points 2-4 don't necessarily support (or refute) your assertion that duals should determine the champion instead of the tournament.
"Determining 'who is the actual best' is secondary to being entertaining and drawing interest." - This is your opinion and should not be stated as accepted fact. I think most would agree that the best solution is one that is entertaining while determining who is the best, and many would also agree that the system we have in place does a very good job of that.
hammer reacted to Fishhook in Can 74 kg get more epic?
Here are the results from many past world's and olympics. There have been 46 worlds and olympics since '69.
'69 Wayne Wells silver
'70 Wayne Wells gold
'71 no entry?
'72 Wayne Wells gold
'73 no entry?
74 Stan D 5th
75 Carl Adams 5th
76 Stan Dziedzic bronze
77 Stan D gold
78 Leroy Kemp gold
79 Leroy Kemp gold
80 No Olympics for USA
81 Kemp Bronze.
82 Kemp Gold ; Dave Schultz got 3rd at 82 kg.
83 Dave Schultz Gold
84 Schultz Gold
85 Schultz Silver
86 Schultz Bronze
87 Schultz Silver
88 Kenny Monday gold (First black olympic champ)
89 Monday gold
( You see a pattern forming yet. This is the USA's best weight)
90 Rob Koll 5th d'oh
91Kenny Monday Silver
92 Kenny Monday Silver
93 Schultz Silver
94 Schultz 7th
95 Schultz 5th
96 Monday 5th
99 Joe Williams 4th
2000 Brandon Slay gold in super upset of Saitiev
2001 Joe Williams Bronze
2005 Joe Williams Bronze
2006 Don Pritzlaff Bronze
2007 Joe Heskett 5th* Made semifinals and nearly beat gold medalist, Was found to have a hole in heart weeks after. To even wrestle with such a condition.........(beast)
2008-2011 We kind of fell off til Jordan redeemed the USA back to its spot atop it's favorite weight.
2011 Jordan Burroughs Gold
2012 Jordan Burroughs Gold
2013 Jordan Burroughs Gold
2014 Jordan Burroughs Bronze
Jordan's run is super impressive. In fact the best of this bunch. But not once has he beaten a medalist just to make the team. All of the old dude's did. Making the team was bear back then.
Jordan has 3 golds and a bronze at 74
Dave Schultz has 2 golds, two silvers, a bronze, as well as a bronze up at 82 kg. He also may have well won those worlds that Monday beat him in. In the 96 world team trials Schultz pinned Koll in about one minute and was a well on his way to another medal, before that cocksucker shot him.
Monday has two golds and two silvers he may have won more without D Schultz being so good. He may have won less without Schultz helping him out. Dave lifted Monday on his shoulders when he won in '88! So cool.
Leroy Kemp has two golds and a bronze, and would have likely won the 80 gold to match Jordan's accomplishments. He also forced Schultz to go up a weight and beat out Stan D!
Stan D has a gold and bronze. May have won more without beast Kemp around.
Wayne Wells has two golds and a silver
Brandon Slay won Olympic gold over possible freestyle GOAT. Monday beat a possible GOAT in finals of worlds too, though that GOAT was up a weight.
The USA has 7 guys at 74 KG who have won two golds or more. That is incredible IMO.
hammer reacted to VakAttack in Reece Humphrey vs. Dan Dennis II
When they put Dennis on the shot clock the first time, I was surprised, but that happens sometimes, iffy shot clock choices. Then, in the second period, they put Hump on it which is their pattern, seemingly, to put the other guy on the clock than from the first period. But when they put Dennis on the shot clock a SECOND I was flabbergasted. The ref decided that Reece Humphrey would win the match.
Now, I believe Hump is the better wrestler, but what exactly did he do in the second match to warrant getting two shot clock points? This was an abomination of a call, and denied Dennis his shot at a win. As I stated last night, most people won't care because Dennis is a Hawkeye, but that was awful and unfair.
hammer reacted to Jaroslav Hasek in Jason Bryant
first, great interview by Jason. second, pretty weak responses from this Parry guy. he's the supposed expert but i'm having a real tough time buying into his lacrosse strategy. and i like lacrosse.
the whole athletic department sounds sorry, to be honest. men's and women's fencing? and sometimes they don't have enough participants to be NCAA eligible? thats pitiful.
i think women's wrestling programs are the best defense for at risk programs. every school in the lower half of the tournament should start pitching a program to their AD and some of the best funded programs should take a leadership role in helping start them as well. that is the entity of my soap box pitch, not trying to threadjack.
hammer reacted to judaspriest in ESPN rocks! Let's make sure they hear from wrestling fans
This is fantastic - ESPN has expanded its wrestling coverage yet again this year, bringing the championship 1 step closer to those of us who cannot attend in person. They are now going to cover even the first round!
I know a bunch of us will always succeed at little knit-picking in terms of the content of the coverage and that is fine, but the most important thing is that we have the coverage itself.
As every year, lets ALL make it known to them that we appreciate the coverage. This is the first year in a bunch when I can't really push the "give us more coverage" envelope much further - they are finally covering every round.
Let's thank ESPN for the coverage and make their response counters go nuts from wrestling fans overwhelming support. That will ensure the future coverage amounts for all of us.
Here is the link to contact them (I just did).
PS. BTN coverage sucked this year and was markedly worse than last year's. Worth letting them know too (here)
hammer reacted to patmilkovich in Stalling is going to kill our sport . . . something must change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if the bottom man does absolutely zero to free himself, or cannot extricate himself, he gets rewarded? And because the top man has the ability to control the bottom man, top man gets penalized and taken out of a position of advantage? We want a rule that takes the bottom man out of a position of disadvantage and puts him into a better situation? Because many of todayâ€™s wrestlers compete in freestyle, they have lost the ability to move on bottom, and not coincidentally, the top man does not learn how to ride correctly. Back in my day, wrestlers who did not learn proper methods to escape or prevent being ridden got pounded, and rightly so. Also, back in the day, you were awarded 2pts. for two or more minutes of riding time...so you wanted to get out on bottom or learn how to ride to cancel out. Bottom/top wrestling was much more active.
More often than not back then, I remember the bottom man getting called for stalling. The rules were not structured to make the top man responsible for the bottom man's action. In overtime matches now virtually everyone takes down position on his choice. The irony is, he wrestles like a maniac to get out in 30 seconds. Somewhere in there is a lesson. I am fundamentally opposed to the entitlement mentality that if the man on bottom canâ€™t be turned, or get away, then he should get a free out. There should be consequences for being unable to remove himself from a position of disadvantage or if he's weak in a position, not a gift.
Modify the riding time award to one point for every 30 seconds of control or one point for every minute, and then top/bottom wouldnâ€™t be so boring. The bottom man will have open up more, and the top man will have to work harder, which should result in a more spirited and entertaining battle. And, by the way, not all top/bottom wrestling is boring, as I have witnessed some incredibly boring neutral wrestling.
Give more points for control on top and I would bet that you will see not only more and better wrestling, but more pins as well. Here's why; in order to get out, one has to take more risk, which can translate to getting caught and put on one's back. Down wrestlers today do just enough to not get called, while the top man has to bust his chops trying to work for a fall with the thought of getting called for stalling if he can't...Why should the top man be responsible for all the action? Trust me, unless something unusual happens you are not going to put a decent kid on his back the way the rules are structured now. He's just not going to take the risks that would allow that. What promotes fan appeal is when there is continual action from both wrestlers who have been trained in escapes and riding. Thatâ€™s exciting. Make the bottom man more accountable for the action, and to do that, award the top man more points for being in control! I will agree that if top and bottom wrestling begins to resemble anything remotely like John duPont humping Dave's legs like that brief clip of the 2am workout in Foxcatcher then something would need to change....
Mat wrestling and escape techniques have all but disappeared. Coaching wrestlers to be proficient in the three disciplines, top, bottom, and neutral are what make folkstyle so difficult and exciting. Learning how to ride and escape are the two most complicated aspects to teach as a coach and to learn as a wrestler. Those routines require much time and work and it's hard. I can fully understand why many people would like to see all wrestling transition to freestyle. In my opinion, top and bottom mastery is what separates great wrestlers from good wrestlers, especially if they are evenly matched on their feet. Quite frankly, as much as I love wrestling, I have to admit that it is boring for me to watch three boring periods starting in neutral only to suffer through a drawn-out overtime where the match usually gets decided from top or bottom anyway. Overtime should not go past the second period. It should be a true sudden death. One minute first period, and if no one scores, flip the disc and give that anklet his choice, top or bottom. Escape wins or ride out wins. If the coaches and wrestlers have been diligent in the pursuit of learning the top/bottom disciplines, the coin toss would be irrelevant because he is well trained in either position.
If they are even on their feet, then the game comes down to who is better in the top and bottom position. To me, giving the bottom guy a free up because he is inept is comparable to telling John Smith that he can't shoot a low singles in a match because his opponents are not good at stopping it or countering it...
hammer reacted to Flying-Tiger in Rick's rant
redblades, it's people like you that truly don't get it. Fans won't view the regular season duals any differently. The teams that have good support will continue to have good attendance and the ones that don't, won't. Winning is always the best (only?) method to increase attendance and that takes full scholarships, quality facilities and the payroll to employ a good coaching staff. Unfortunately many schools aren't willing to make that commitment and in there lies the problem. Look at MSU as Exhibit "A" They have the monetary resources to build a very good program but they could care less about the sport. That attitude has nothing to do with how the championship is decided.
hammer got a reaction from brianj in ohio State and Minnesota in real danger of losing...
congrats to cornell wins 19-16