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Everything posted by doubleleg121

  1. Cletus, That too is a real possibility. Your point on Taylor becoming more aggressive or wrestling different (paraphrasing), is a good argument for why it is so hard to now what an outcome may have been. Every variable in a match has the potential to change what happens next. The old butterfly effect. As for backing up, without going back and watching again, I only saw one real clear time outside of the last 30 seconds where it was strictly backing up. That is when he slid 75% across the mats on his knees. The other time if I recall were followed with **** attempts (mostly from the knees). Now he did back up a lot again inside the final 30 seconds. It is just so hard to k ow. If Taylor would have got the call Cox would have had to change his plan and may have forced another step out. We need space for both of them, same with Dake.
  2. One thing on the Cox Taylor match is that you can also make a pretty good argument that Cox should have had 4 not 2 on that takedown at the end of the first. He definitely exposed going hand to hand. If Cox gets that 4 instead of 2 then a caution 2 or whatever doesn't matter. Also​, the only real time Cox backed up heavily was when he slid on his knees backwards. Yes that was clear, but outside of that he had more attempts than Taylor in the second. Honestly though. I want all 4 of those guys on the team. Pray for good weights in 2018
  3. To briefly comment on the hit to the face that dropped him. I'm not sold it was deliberate. I thought it looked like he was coming up to inside control. Yes aggressive and hard, but he didn't wind back or anything. It looked like he was jamming up inside for control. The other side is I think you have to take into account wrestling at the world level. On the world stage those guys aren't the cleanest.in many of those countries it is the number one other two spots. Rugby/wrestling, soccer/wrestling etc. Especially the top guys are extremely physical and what we consider in the US dirty. After 7 years wrestling at that level with the Russians, Iranian, Cubans, Turkish, etc., You are going to merge a little with what is required when wrestling others at that physical level.
  4. Love Dake, but I don't feel he would have beat JB two in a row. He barely got past the first match. With another 20 seconds it is likely JB would have closed it out in two matches. In the first match Dake hit a 4-pointer off of JB's double. It was sweet and I still don't know how he pulled it off. JB had Dakes feet off the ground at one point. Insanity by Dake. However other than that JB controlled the match. He started running the table. Again 20 more seconds and Dake probably loses the first one.
  5. I think this is kind of a unique time. I can't remember the last time we have had as many it's leave "backups", for lack of better term, where we have more than one guy who is a legit medal contender. We had it back with Neal and McCoy and Varner and Snyder. However, I can't remember the last time we had two guys like Dake and Taylor. Two legit medal contenders staying home while sending two other legit medal contenders. You could probably make a lesser case even for Zain and Tank. We just seem to be unsualy deep right now at certain weights. Our best hope is the new weights allow them all to get in and maybe we can pull off the World Championship in 2018
  6. A point series could be good. If you a point system in place with things like grand prize, world cup, yargin (spelling), and our US tournaments. Top point guy gets the bye. World and Olympic medalist would get a significant point value. Enough that if they won a few of those they would outscore anyone else. What it would do though is force them to also compete more. I am a huge fan of J'Den. However, his only international tournament was the Olympics. Taylor wrestled all over. In those situations he would have outscored J'Den. Or maybe the highest point guy not a previous world medalists gets a bye to the challenge tournament finals. I don't know. Just spitballing. You could assess points to wins over world and Olympic medalists too. I agree that returning world and Olympic medalists should have the bye. However, guys like Taylor, and potentially Dake and others who have been training competing and are certainly world class level without the opportunity do need a way to close the gap of disadvantage. The two day tournament could work with on weigh-ins if all wrestlers weighed in the same day.
  7. I didn't feel Taylor backed off, I felt he got over aggressive and reckless. Taylor reminds me a little bit of Metcalf when he first hit the international scene. His folkstyle go-go-go mindset, which is great to watch, gets capitalized on at the international level. Metcalf had to learn when. To pull the trigger a lot and when to pull back a little. Taylor going like he did after cox like it was a state of urgency allowed the point gap to increase. He only needed one good score and had over 2:00 minutes. Cox wasn't going to be able to execute an offensive attack. He had plenty of time but looked like he was in a hurry. Just my opinion.
  8. I got to say. I really like Molinaro and think he is a gamer. But DAM! He is either a leprechaun with or has a horseshoe that he keeps tucked in wrestling bag. Hell, maybe a rabbits foot! I don't know but this dude catches break after break. Even how the weight got qualified for the Olympics. I want to take him to Vegas with me. In all seriousness, that is great for him, bit suck for Oliver. I have to believe it wasn't intentional. There has to be a way for the UWW to list supliments that will cause a positive test.
  9. Garrett Steiber Molinaro Green Burroughs Cox Snyder Bradley
  10. Are we sure that Cox is still going to even play football? If he is assuming the position of volunteer coach, can he even play? It's possible at the time that he had not thought about taking on a coaching position. Plus he is what, 22? 23 at best? It is very possible he is no longer considering football. I have to go with Cox in the, but I also think Taylor is the one guy who could beat him. Before the Olympics I thought had he wrestled Taylor he may not have been our rep. Cox is very susceptible to ankle picks, a strength of Taylor's. If you go back to his only 3 losses since his sophomore year, 1 is for the slam into the tables, and the other 2 were from getting taken down with an ankle pick. Taylor isn't the best matchup style wise. With that said, I don't know that he will get picked in two matches. I have it 2-1 in the best if 3. (Cox). Taylor will not surprise me at all though.
  11. Is there somewhere the matches can be followed? Audio, dashboard, etc?
  12. is there anywhere to get live results and updates?
  13. I would be surprised if J'Den comes back. If he is going to play football he is going to bulk up even more. I don't know what position he will play, I am guessing linebacker or running back, but you would think he will get up to at least 220. My guess is it will come down to what happens after football, with football. He is athletic enough that some team may be willing to take him on as a project. It wouldn't be the first time an athlete out of wrestling or basketball, who did not really play college football landed on an NFL team. Even if he only made league minimum he would make over 200K per year. More than he would make winning an Olympic Gold, and more of a Guarantee than MMA. With his size and being a world class athlete and Olympic Bronze Medalist it would not surpise me at all if someone takes him as a project.
  14. Being in the education world and wrap up my dissertation on technology integration in the classroom, I can tell you that online learning is exploding. Most classes are now online, even lab classes. Entire degrees can be earned from major D1 institutions. It isn't just self study. Many of these courses are blended learning (combination of technology and face to face). For example, students report to class for say 1 day a week, and then the other two days are via technology. It may consist of collaborative groups, audio, video recording, etc. In many studies the retention of learned information is as high, and in some cases higher, than traditional learning for those engaging in blended classes by choice when other options are available as well. Full online (less effective than blended), or blended classes, are becoming popular even for your traditional students who are not in athletics. It is extremely probable that Snyder is able to do it. The young man is obviously extremely disciplined, and has his priorities in order. We are not talking about the average 21 year old. Here is a wrestler who passed up on his senior year of high school, trained at an elite level, and has competing among men. He has not done the "kid" or "teenager" thing since who knows when, if ever. I don't know that there has ever been a negative thing reported about any kind of trouble. It may not be seem probable that he can manage school and his training, but that is because it is hard to imagine something so far from what most people can do. Olympic and World athletes maintaining academics and competing at an elite level isn't unheard of. We just don't see it in wrestling. However, you do see it in gymnastics, swimming, etc. Those athletes are just EXTREMELY disciplined.
  15. I still do not understand why everyone is so set on the challenge tournament making a difference. Don't get me wrong, I get the theory behind it, but it makes little since given the history of JB's tournaments and success. He has wrestled numerous international tournaments and won Gold in every one of them with the exception of World's and Olympics. With the exception of the last Olympics he has medaled everyone of those as well. Are we saying that the WTT or OTT are more of a grind than those tournaments, where he still performs in the finals and wins. If anything I would say that Dake has had the advantage for years in the sense that all he has really had to do is focus on preparing for one person and one style. With the exception of him going up in weight for a short time he has had years to focus on preparing for JB exclusively, and still hasn't beat him. At best he has been able to crack the armor a few times. JB has had to prepare for multiple people across the world and has not had the luxury of worrying or focusing exclusively on Dake. So yes, he has got to miss the challenge tournament, but it keeps being assumed that the "rest" is some huge advantage over Dake. Other than Taylor, and maybe Howe, Dake barely breaks a sweat in the other challenge tournament matches. He also has the advantage in having to really only train for one person. So imo it is a wash, if not advantageous for Dake. As for "losing a step", I would say that JB's schedule last year (coaching, having a baby, being a husband, training), was more of a factor than the "age" card. Additionally, he has trained and competed more than any person in the country since he won his first worlds. The number of matches he has wrestled at the international level is significant when compared to anyone else, which requires constant and intense training. I don't even know if Bruce and Smith had that many matches in that time frame. That can wear on a person. I am not buying the notion that JB has lost a step because of age. I think his life was just extremely busy, and him being the guy he his, I am sure there were plenty of times he put his Husker team and family above his training priorities. The man was trying to spin a lot of plates. So I think he has more in the tank than people give him credit for. I believe life happened, and affected him more over the last couple years than father time did. As for the fact that the "rest" gave him some advantage is just nonsense. Great in theory, but considering he has proved numerous times he can win gold after the grind that comes with long travel, and world competition, the idea that "rest" his some huge benefit is just nonsense.
  16. I am as big of a J'Den Cox and Mizzou fan as there is. However, if Taylor goes at 86kg and Dake is at 74kg then I think J'Den could be in trouble. Especially, if Taylor has filled out to a full 86kg. David Taylor is a complete style nightmare for J'Den. Go back and look at basically every loss since his sophomore year in college (minus the DQ for a slam) and every one of them is to an ankle pick. Taylor is the worst possible match up therected is for J'Den. Date is the worst matchup for Taylor. Just my opinioname. On another note, I am glad JB has to wrestle the open and doesn't get a bye to the finals. That way when he beats Dave 2/3 this entire JB wins because of not wrestling can be put to rest. It is complete BS. The guy has placed at EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT except the last Olympics, since going international. You aren't wrestling a bunch of college kids in that tournament and hitting one guy, at best, who is at that level. At those tournament you are wreatling match after natch against the best guys in the world in half the time as the open or qualifier. Anyone who thinks that world level athletes like Burroughs all are going to be wore down by the finals of the US open or a qualifier are seriously disconnected from reality. That rest is not going to make a bit of difference to JB with the conditioning. Nor would it for Molinaro, Snyder, Dare, Taylor, or anyone else at their level. So please have JB wrestle the whole tournament and put that part of the conversation to bed for good.
  17. If i was going strictly with taking care of my son my top choice would probably be Steve Garland out of Virginia. behind that I would say Brian Smith Mark Cody Kevin Dresser Both Borelli's. I would throw Koll in there as well. Those would be my choices from purely an all around standpoint. I feel like Jihn Smith and Cael are obvious choices fir most people.
  18. I don't think it isn't that Smith wouldn't have the match-up typically. He believes strongly in promoting the sport. In this case if Cox didn't wrestle at the All-Star it would have more to do with the timing coming out of the Olympics. The level of training and competing those guys do is tough on the body. When you put that with coming straight out of the college season grind it's a lot. I forgot about Manley being a senior.
  19. What's funny is that heading into the NCAA most people had Cox losing to MM. Despite Cox being 3-1 against him in their 4 prior match ups. Now all of a sudden he wins by MD against Dean. Cox would probably win, but it wouldn't be a blow-out. It would probably be by 3 or 4 with riding time. What people either don't realize or have forgotten, since freestyle is on the feet so much, is that Cox was probably the best top wrestler at 197 last year. I don't see this happening though. I would be surprised if we see Cox on the mat before Christmas. Also, Mizzou is fairly young. It wouldn't be a stretch to see him RS next year if Smith thought they could make a solid run in 17-18. I think Mayes will be their only startining senior if Cox were to redshirt. Irregardless his body will need to rest and rebuild so I don't think he wrestles at the All-Starbucks.
  20. This thread should earn an olympic gold in hypotheticals. My hypothetical is that if Dake doesn't beat Taylor because of a style clash in Dake's favor then Taylor beats Cox due to a style clash in the favor of Taylor because of ankle picks. This hypothetical puts the Dake and Taylor imaginary victories to rest, as they become reality, Cox never makes the Olympics, and Taylor wins the Olympic message board Gold that he has been long seeking. Snyder did what nobody has done with his age and World Gold, Dake did what nobody had done with his 4 titles at 4 weights, JB is 2 Golds from doing what John Smith did which nobody had done. Before Snyder, Cejudo had won Gold at the age nobody had done. 86Kg Cox is better than 86kg Dake. 74Kg Dake may be better than 74Kg Cox, but Cox will never see that weight. Currently 74Kg JB is better than 74Kg Dake and any other 74kg wrestler in the world. The Olympics and worlds come down to one day, and who has the best tournament on that day. For that reason, anything is possible. Nobody expected Cejudo to win, Nobody expected JB to win, and frankly nobody expected Snyder to win gold the first time around Heck, a lot of people didn't know if Cael would pull off his Olympic gold because of Satiev (spelling I know). With that said to think it is a long shot or no shot for Cox is to be simply uniformed. Truth be told next to Snyder, Cox has more freestyle experience than anyone on the current Olympic team prior to their first year on the Senior circuit. He has placed top 4 (I believe) at several US opens, he's medaled at the University Nationals, and he was a multiple Fargo All-American, including his championship win of Kyle Snyder. Cox has been a top US prospect for over half a decade (that sounds better than saying more than 5-years). He was trained through high school by two coaches who have coached on the Junior World Teams. The same coaches who trained Dom Bradley, another top US prospect. The same coaches who also helped to train Spencer and Ryan Mango. I know it seems like J'Den has come out of nowhere, but he hasn't. He is much more experienced than what people realize. His performances have not been flukes, and he is are true medal threat at the Olympics. Every bit as much as the first medal earned by Green, JB, Snyder, etc. His college resume to date is as impressive as anyone in the U.S. with the exception of Dake. Who he beat at 86Kg JB -- 2 NCAA title Dennis -- 1 NCAA title (I think) Snyder -- 1 NCAA title Molinaro -- 1 NCAA title Delag... -- 2 or 3 NCAA Div II titles Taylor -- 2 NCAA titles Cox -- 2 NCAA titles and so on... To say he has less chance than anyone who has earned their first world level medals on the US team in the last 10 years is simply uniformed.
  21. I'm not sure why so many people think that J'Den is limited in Freestyle. He actually may be a stronger freestyle wrestler than folkstyle. 1) Like mentioned before, he has been top 4 on the U.S. ladder since 19 years old. 2) He was an AA multiple times at the cadet and junior level in Fargo. 3) He was a national champ in fargo, including beating Snyder for the national title. 4) As a cadet and junior, he was coached by two of top freestyle and greco coaches at the cadet and junior level in the country. Those are the same cadet/junior coaches that were part of the training for Spencer Mango, Ryan Mango, Bryan Grahm, and Jake Fisher. All members who have/are wrestling on the US Greco team, at the senior level. They are also the same guys who were were a large part of the training for Alan Waters, Cody Brewer, and Dom Bradley. In fact J'Den and Dom were coached and mentored by the same person since youth. Both of the guys who he trained with have also been coaches on the cadet and junior world teams in the past, and have a good amount of coaching experience internationally. That was just pre-college. Since then, J'Den has also been trained by Sammy Henson, Joe Johnston, and Nick Marable. So it isn't like he is dipping his toe into freestyle for the first time. He has limited "senior level" experience, but he is just now hitting that age bracket. He is not new to freestyle. He has been extremely successful. 5) I can't say with 100% certainty, but I am fairly certain he has international experience. Just maybe not at the world championship level, and not at the senior level (he is just hitting that age). However, the US has had many guys with international success with A LOT less experience then what J'Den has. In fact, next to David Taylor, he probably has more freestyle experience than ANY wrestler in that 86kg bracket at this point in time of his career than anyone of the others had at the same point in time. 6) This notion that is size, speed, and strength is the only reason he was able to beat guys like, Hebert, Gavin, and Dake is ludicrous. He has much more freestyle experience and knowledge than what 99% of the people are apparently aware of. 7) The only person who can probably beat him is Taylor, and that is because it would a stylistic nightmare for J'Den. However, Taylor has to be able to get through Dake, who is a stylistic nightmare for him. I don't know if he will place or not, but he certainly is not as green as many seem to think. He is young, so he is knew to the senior level. The predictions of his abilities are about what they have seemed to be for most of the other young ones who broke through and nobody thought they would be able to so early on. Even at 97kg, Snyder may be the only one who can beat him. I would honestly probably pick him over Varner at this point in Varner's career.
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