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  1. You really think that people that strongly associate the concept of masculinity with toxicity like the sport of wrestling as much as other people on average? I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about the group as a whole. There are many great fans of the sport who are SJW's and that is great. I am not saying otherwise. Maybe this did have nothing to do with it. I admit it freely as a possibility. But I don't think the athletic department was honest or transparent in their release, and then I am left wondering "what are they hiding?"
  2. Academic integrity is serious response for why they would consider dropping sports. And of course, football brings in money to the athletic department, so it is never seriously on the chopping block. I could accept such an answer, even if I prefer they keep the wrestling program. But then we are back to information release they gave. Academics were not mentioned. It was finance and competitiveness that they listed. Why? I reject that financial and competitiveness are the real reasons (as mentioned above). If it really was for academic reasons, why not say so? I would have accepted it had they said it, but they did not. The fact that it is not listed when it would be such an easy thing to claim, makes me think it is not the real reason. But of course I could be mistaken.
  3. Maybe the number is light, that is not the point. If it were about finances they would have a "wrestling stays is you get to $X" number. Instead their release specifically said the decision is final and not to try to raise money, unless it is for the club level.
  4. I searched briefly for hard evidence, one way or the other and did not find any. Anecdotal evidence: wrestling is a very masculine sport with 2 people in direct physical contact trying force the other into favorable positions. It is the opposite of "safe and controlled". Compare something like soccer where the point is to kick a ball into a net as opposed to forcibly holding down someone's shoulders against the ground. So sure anecdotally, just hearing the phrase "forcibly holding someone down to the ground" probably triggers many sjw's to think about rape. If football did not bring all the money, crowds, and influence, they would probably try to stop it as well.
  5. Reading this, the official position of Stanford is that this was a financial decision and to a lesser extent remain competitive. If that were true, they would be more than happy to accept donations to endow a program. They are not happy to accept said donations, therefore their official position is false. They are closing the program anyway, thus they are doing it for other reasons than financials. If it were about remaining competitive, they would be more than happy to see the status quo is good enough to produce a national champion. They are not happy to see that, therefore their official position is false. They are closing the program anyway, thus they are doing it for other reasons than competitiveness. Given the fact that they are not being honest and transparent about the reason(s), we are left to speculate as to the true reason. Does anyone have a better explanation that fits the facts than "sjw's run Stanford and its athletic department, and sjw's disproportionately don't like wrestling as a sport"?
  6. Humor me, what are your examples?
  7. If Lewallen had gotten a takedown in 4 seconds of the first 7 seconds, would they have found a watch to award the takedown? Yes they would have. I also remember all those years ago with the kid that beat Realbuto they had the version of Shiels who just said over and over "the coach has to challenge, you can challenge everything, throw the challenge, you have to challenge, etc". The coach threw the darn brick! Now what? Shiels says it is reviewable. Why was there no review?
  8. Perhaps you can't declare someone a national champion without the tournament, but I don't see why you can't award all-american status based on seeds. In most collegiate sports (football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, etc), due to their team nature, all-american status is given by coaches vote, media votes, etc. Even to the affect of designating first team all-american, second team and so on. This is effectively what the seeding committee did for wrestling.
  9. Come on man. Why are there so few cradles in the international styles? Do just a tiny bit of analysis and you will see that the rules of the international styles simply don't encourage pins. Guys on bottom don't have to do anything and therefore are not obligated to open themselves up at all. That is why 95% of the time when someone gets taken down, boom lay and pray practically every time, no variety, just stall it out for 5 seconds. If they had to say come up to a knee in order to stand up in order to improve their position, hey lookie cradles now become more viable. I know, I know, par terre is so dull, get them back on the feet ASAP. But it comes at a cost. You may call it boring or stalling, but to me mat wrestling is the soul of the sport.
  10. I started the lay and pray thing so I will defend it: I am not saying that bottom defense is not a thing or that it does not require strength and skill. But take a step back and ask yourself what the heart of wrestling is. To me it is to work in all situations to control your opponent to improve your position towards the general goal of getting a pin. Bottom wrestling in freestyle does not work to improve your position. It is literally stalling (intentionally create a situation of no action) so that the rules and ref can improve your position. Top wrestling in freestyle also slightly contradicts the goal because the focus is on exposure not near fall. People don't get pinned from leg laces and gut wrenches, but they are rewarded at the same level as cradles and halfs. I accept that people have different understandings of what wrestling is at its core. But the freestyle lovers need to understand that same point. It is great you find leg laces and gut wrenches exciting. But understand that there are others who find them somewhat boring or at least grossly over valued because they are not working towards a pin (which to some is the ultimate goal of wrestling).
  11. I respect this. I am glad that there are folks who do enjoy the different styles. Sorry to soft-hijack the thread. I just sometimes get super frustrated with the "let's change folkstyle to be more like freestyle or drop it entirely" narrative that gets pushed by some. I thought it would be humorous to turn the narrative and see how folks act by suggesting we change freestyle to be more like folkstyle.
  12. I guess I am psychopath then. I get that some people like the international styles, that is great. Have at it. But to try and convince me on the college wrestling board that they are better, more exciting, or should be implemented at the high school or college level? No, my answer is no. When I hear suggestions that we try to make ourselves more like the international styles, I am going to point out the problems with them. I find it impossibly ironic that anyone can complain about how boring it is watching handfighting on the ground and claim greco is exciting. Again, my answer is no. Like having a ruleset that changes every year with no consensus on what the rules mean (again there will always be borderline cases, I get that), but the rate in international styles having situations where no one exactly knows what the score should be is just too high. Again my answer is no. I actually like wrestling where the athletes actually try to get a pin. Crazy, I know when I can instead see "exciting" leg laces and gut wrenches against the almighty lay and pray defense. I prefer the rate of pins in folkstyle. And yes I think it is an embarrassment to the sport that nearly all top level wrestlers have cauliflower ear because they won't wear simple head gear. I don't really expect the international styles to change, but I hope some who come on here and ask for folkstyle to change realize there are plenty of problems with the international styles that maybe you ought to worry about first.
  13. Given the international styles propensity for change, I think it would be way easier to get UWW to change to make it more viewer friendly and closely align with folkstyle. I propose the following changes: 1. Eliminate the lay and pray defense on bottom. Give 1 point for an escape and remove the automatic return to neutral. This will force the bottom guy to work (more exciting) and give the top guy more opportunity to score as the bottom guy is not doing the lay and pray (also more exciting). 2. Make guys on top keep a turn for say 2 seconds so there is none of this confusion about who turned who. Fans hate the ambiguity that we see in so many matches. Make a person hold the other person down on a turn. 3. Remove criteria in favor of overtime. If there is a concern for matches taking too long, maybe do 1 minute of sudden-death neutral and then move to a top and bottom round.
  14. Your math is off. First off, what you tried to do is only true in a random distribution. These are seeds and not random distribution (like the old international style brackets that were truly a draw, there is no draw in this NCAA bracket, just straight seeding). As a counter-example, take Duke in basketball, by your logic, their getting a 1 or 2 seed 10 years in a row would be (2/16)^10 or 1 in a trillion. But it is not because they have a good a basketball team that consistently earns the top seeds. For Cornell, they just happen to have several guys in the approximately 6-11 range who got 8 or 9 seeds. Not that surprising. Secondly, your math only accounted for 5 guys who met the criteria. You did not include the 2 that did not fall in that same range. Even if this was a random draw, the odds of 5 of 7 people facing the "top ranked" guy in the first 3 rounds is: (7 choose 5)*(1/4)^5*(3/4)^2 = 1.1% which is still fairly rare, but not as bad 0.1%
  15. It is easier than you think: if Garrett would have had the ref who did the Colon vs Graff match, Garrett would have had 2 TD's and 2 sets of near-fall and an insurmountable 8-2 lead in the first. Sorry I could not help myself - seriously though I kept thinking to myself that there was no substantial difference between Colon's situation and Delgado's x2 (and I believe that neither should have been awarded any points).
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