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jdowntown

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  1. Come on man. Why are there so few cradles in the international styles? Do just a tiny bit of analysis and you will see that the rules of the international styles simply don't encourage pins. Guys on bottom don't have to do anything and therefore are not obligated to open themselves up at all. That is why 95% of the time when someone gets taken down, boom lay and pray practically every time, no variety, just stall it out for 5 seconds. If they had to say come up to a knee in order to stand up in order to improve their position, hey lookie cradles now become more viable. I know, I know, par terre is so dull, get them back on the feet ASAP. But it comes at a cost. You may call it boring or stalling, but to me mat wrestling is the soul of the sport.
  2. I started the lay and pray thing so I will defend it: I am not saying that bottom defense is not a thing or that it does not require strength and skill. But take a step back and ask yourself what the heart of wrestling is. To me it is to work in all situations to control your opponent to improve your position towards the general goal of getting a pin. Bottom wrestling in freestyle does not work to improve your position. It is literally stalling (intentionally create a situation of no action) so that the rules and ref can improve your position. Top wrestling in freestyle also slightly contradicts the goal because the focus is on exposure not near fall. People don't get pinned from leg laces and gut wrenches, but they are rewarded at the same level as cradles and halfs. I accept that people have different understandings of what wrestling is at its core. But the freestyle lovers need to understand that same point. It is great you find leg laces and gut wrenches exciting. But understand that there are others who find them somewhat boring or at least grossly over valued because they are not working towards a pin (which to some is the ultimate goal of wrestling).
  3. I respect this. I am glad that there are folks who do enjoy the different styles. Sorry to soft-hijack the thread. I just sometimes get super frustrated with the "let's change folkstyle to be more like freestyle or drop it entirely" narrative that gets pushed by some. I thought it would be humorous to turn the narrative and see how folks act by suggesting we change freestyle to be more like folkstyle.
  4. I guess I am psychopath then. I get that some people like the international styles, that is great. Have at it. But to try and convince me on the college wrestling board that they are better, more exciting, or should be implemented at the high school or college level? No, my answer is no. When I hear suggestions that we try to make ourselves more like the international styles, I am going to point out the problems with them. I find it impossibly ironic that anyone can complain about how boring it is watching handfighting on the ground and claim greco is exciting. Again, my answer is no. Like having a ruleset that changes every year with no consensus on what the rules mean (again there will always be borderline cases, I get that), but the rate in international styles having situations where no one exactly knows what the score should be is just too high. Again my answer is no. I actually like wrestling where the athletes actually try to get a pin. Crazy, I know when I can instead see "exciting" leg laces and gut wrenches against the almighty lay and pray defense. I prefer the rate of pins in folkstyle. And yes I think it is an embarrassment to the sport that nearly all top level wrestlers have cauliflower ear because they won't wear simple head gear. I don't really expect the international styles to change, but I hope some who come on here and ask for folkstyle to change realize there are plenty of problems with the international styles that maybe you ought to worry about first.
  5. Given the international styles propensity for change, I think it would be way easier to get UWW to change to make it more viewer friendly and closely align with folkstyle. I propose the following changes: 1. Eliminate the lay and pray defense on bottom. Give 1 point for an escape and remove the automatic return to neutral. This will force the bottom guy to work (more exciting) and give the top guy more opportunity to score as the bottom guy is not doing the lay and pray (also more exciting). 2. Make guys on top keep a turn for say 2 seconds so there is none of this confusion about who turned who. Fans hate the ambiguity that we see in so many matches. Make a person hold the other person down on a turn. 3. Remove criteria in favor of overtime. If there is a concern for matches taking too long, maybe do 1 minute of sudden-death neutral and then move to a top and bottom round.
  6. Your math is off. First off, what you tried to do is only true in a random distribution. These are seeds and not random distribution (like the old international style brackets that were truly a draw, there is no draw in this NCAA bracket, just straight seeding). As a counter-example, take Duke in basketball, by your logic, their getting a 1 or 2 seed 10 years in a row would be (2/16)^10 or 1 in a trillion. But it is not because they have a good a basketball team that consistently earns the top seeds. For Cornell, they just happen to have several guys in the approximately 6-11 range who got 8 or 9 seeds. Not that surprising. Secondly, your math only accounted for 5 guys who met the criteria. You did not include the 2 that did not fall in that same range. Even if this was a random draw, the odds of 5 of 7 people facing the "top ranked" guy in the first 3 rounds is: (7 choose 5)*(1/4)^5*(3/4)^2 = 1.1% which is still fairly rare, but not as bad 0.1%
  7. It is easier than you think: if Garrett would have had the ref who did the Colon vs Graff match, Garrett would have had 2 TD's and 2 sets of near-fall and an insurmountable 8-2 lead in the first. Sorry I could not help myself - seriously though I kept thinking to myself that there was no substantial difference between Colon's situation and Delgado's x2 (and I believe that neither should have been awarded any points).
  8. There are really 2 questions in one in this: Is Dake better than Taylor, head to head? If you were making a team from scratch and got to pick/draft who you wanted, would you pick Dake over Taylor? The answer to the first question is really not debatable now. It was at the beginning of the season, but 3 for 3 in folk is beyond a reasonable doubt. The second question however is debatable even now. According to the NCAA team scoring, Taylor was more valuable due to his bonus points than Dake with the higher placement points. Personally, if I were making a team from scratch I would take Taylor, but I could not fault anyone for picking Dake instead.
  9. Championship side wins by round: Rd64/R32/R16: 1 pt (If you were not in a pigtail and win in the Rd32 you get an extra point for the bye in the R64) Qtr/Semi: 7 pts Championship: 4 pts Wrestle back side wins by rd: All rounds prior to R12: 0.5 (Again if you did not wrestle in a pigtail and win the first round of consolation you get an extra 0.5 for the bye) R12/Qtr/Semi: 3.5 3/5/7 place: 1 Bonus on top for any match: +2 pts for pin/DQ/etc +1.5 tech +1 for major Or you can consider things alternately: Each win on the championship side is worth 1 and on the consolation is worth 0.5 (this excludes championship and place matches, but does count the bye followed by win as above) Extra points for placing: 1st gets +16, 2nd 12, 3 10, 4 9, 5 7, 6 6, 7 4, and 8th is 3 With the bonus for pin/tech/major as above
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