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Posts posted by grapplefan

  1. The Hawkeyes just ass whipped your cornshuckers specops76. OH and it appears the gap between the 2 is widening. I guess having an olympic gold medalist as a coach can do that.


    ACTUALLY the gap is narrowing between the two schools, Iowa beat Nebraska 31-7 last year, only 22-9 this year. Please think before you make yourself look like a fool. And hooray to Iowa for beating a lower ranked team that they were expected to beat handily.


    All I know is Nebraskas best two wrestlers ass whipped Iowa's, so suck on that.

    Anger management issues? This thread is about the Gilman match, not your issues.


    Actually, I also thought that Nebraska performed well this meet, even with the loss,. As Tom Brands said after the meet, the Hawks left bonus points on the table, and did not execute they way they need to. Lots of work to do. With Nebraska's good coaching and recruiting, I expect them to be a consistent top 5 school starting next year, if not this one.

  2. Dick Hutton, Oklahoma State heavyweight immediately after World War II, came incredibly close to becoming the first four-time NCAA champ. He was part of that group that WAS ELIGIBLE to wrestle varsity as a freshman (to address a shortage of eligible college wrestlers after the war), and won the unlimited title at the 1947, '48 and 1950 NCAAs. He was a finalist at the 1949 NCAAs at Colorado State, wrestling Minnesota's Verne Gagne... but was Kesseled by referee Finn Erikson who disallowed/missed/ignored a last-second takedown that would have won him the match, and his third title. Instead, there was a tie... and back then, there was no overtime. Winners were determined by the ref... and the ref raised Gagne's hand.


    Flash-forward one year, to the 1950 NCAAs. Hutton is again in the finals, wrestling Fred Stoeker of what is now University of Northern Iowa in Stoeker's home gym (now West Gym). Again, match ends in a tie. Again, the ref is Finn Erikson. Again, ref raises the other guy's arm... but, thankfully, the NCAA, perceiving the injustice of the '49 NCAAs, had tweaked the rules, allowing matside officials to override a ref decision they thought was wrong. The matside officials determined Hutton had won.


    Later, the three-time Cowboy hwt champ Hutton said something like, "I don't think that ref liked me."


    Hutton and Gagne both became pro rasslin' champs.


    Another Oklahoma State great of the past that could have been a 4x was Stanley Henson, who lost only one match in his Cowboy career in the late 1930s. AWN named him the best college wrestler of the 1930s.


    BTW, both Henson and Gagne are still alive. Hutton died a decade ago.



    You mean the same Finn Erikson who was the coach for West Waterloo High in Iowa? That's interesting...

  3. How about Eric Guerrero, CA boy, 3 time NC. Looks like John is going to stick around for at least 5 more years because of his boy (Joe). Probably pound for pound the best wrestler ever coming out of CA.

    This is a great idea. The guy deserves a chance to lead a team, and I think he'll get one.

  4. But the narrative you, rossel and others are selling -- namely, that PSU is winning only because Cael has his pick of the litter of "made" guys that my Aunt Ruth could turn into an NCAA Champ, whereas Iowa should be worshipped because it comes as close as it does to PSU despite having dramatically less to work with -- its just false and indefensible.

    Well, your Aunt Ruth did pretty fair job with her son, Ed. Now if he can just keep out of Taco Bell, he will finish out a great career at Penn State. Maybe some other teams need to give your Aunt Ruth a new coaching opportunity. ;)

  5. ^^Imo neutral college wrestling broadcasting is best, though home broadcasters do tend to favor the home team. Lehigh does seem to have a reputation in the eastern wrestling community of generally having a non-aggressive style of wrestling, which isn't always fun to watch. Also, some non-Lehigh fans note off-forum that it seems at home Lehigh generally has officials who tolerate Lehigh's passivity.


    On the other hand, I read comments by Lehigh fans that indicate acceptance of the Lehigh style and note that the individual wrestlers who employ it, do so because it is an effective strategy for them. In that connection, Rey won the NCAA's.


    Interesting string and this fan favors neutral broadcasting and aggressive fun-to-watch Div I wrestling.

    So Lehigh has a really bad meet and we christen it the "Lehigh style?" Please...

    That's as bad as when one fan behaves badly, so we berate all the fans from that school. Again, please...

  6. What's Clark's walking around weight? Maybe 132-135? How about instead of cutting, he goes the other way and tries to add a little size?


    Clark is a massive 125lber, I'd say he likely walks around at about 140-143. He is tall but a 7-10lb cut would not completely wipe him out like what seems to be the case. He'd be an undersized 141 but I think still competitive.


    I think this is Iowa's best chance. Keep Ramos at a weight where he is already pretty dominating, and move Clark into Jeva's spot.

    Won't happen this year unless there's an injury. Josh is the guy at 141. If he makes fewer mental mistakes and gets more offense, he'll be fine by NCAAs.

    Right now, Retherford and Stieber are in class by themselves. If Josh wants to beat these two, he'll have to improve.

  7. Trirtsis is still under the weather! Northwestern could have split five matches with a healthy Trirtsis. Wait till next year when we bring the top rated recruiting class on board! Plus we add Mitch Sliga,Fargo Champ,and Jacob Schmidtt who is a top fifteen type of kid at 33!

    Haven't you heard that NEXT YEAR Burroughs and Dake will given 4 more years of college eligibility, and they've enrolled at Northwestern? :lol:

  8. A few weeks ago so many Iowa fans were questioning Brands as coach. Said 149 was a lost cause. Wanted Clark at 125, not Gilman. Happy with Jeva at 141 with decent showing against Zain and a good midlands. Not happy how Evans looked against Brown. Moore was same old staller and little to expect from him.


    NOW Brands is a great coach again and has his wrestlers ready. Grothus is gonna AA at 149. Gilman is man at 125 and will AA. Jeva should be replaced by Clark at 141, even though he never wrestled at 141 before. Evans is back with razor close match with Perry. Moore beats Caldwell and now he turned the corner. I am sure there is more I am forgetting.


    It is pretty comical reading the Iowa forum, they turn on their wrestlers and coaches on a weekly basis. People need to realize some guys have a bad match sometimes. They can get in a bad wrestling slump(Gulibon), or on a hot streak(Grothus). The season is basically to build for the real deal, March NCAA's. So right now Ruth losing is no big deal to me. Zain is hot right now, but lets see how he does at BIG 10's. Does he get to that rematch with Logan? Can he win again or does he get a better Stieber who man handles him? Either way I want PSU to perform come March when it matters.


    Oh and PSU is till favorites come NCAA's.

    This is a total crock. No one has turned on Brands or the team, but there's always some fools who want to stir things up. Experienced fans know that this was ONE good meet and not a whole season, and we all know that Penn State is still the favorite. In any event, PSU deserves fans who have better things to do than troll other team's fan boards.

  9. No evidence of that, and Clark has enough talent to weather early season difficulty. Besides, injuries happen, and having someone to step right in is a huge asset. Clark's an Iowa guy and I don't see him transferring. Just like Ramos and McD, Clark and Gilman will find an accommodation that works.


    Back to the real subject of this thread, I don't predict the Hawks, but I will say that the Pokes may be a little weaker this season than last. All the scenarios in the earlier posts are plausible outcomes. Also St. John and Evans will have to bring their "A" games to this meet.

    Brands has already been quoted that he's not happy with Clark.

    I will predict that Dieringer top DSJ--even in Iowa.

    And you were wrong.

    Also, unhappy does not equal "really pissed." Starting rumors of a transfer is just silly.

  10. Okie State had 2 take downs all night?


    Either Iowa has improved by leaps and bounds since the Penn State dual or the Pokes just didn't show up tonight.

    First, Iowa was dreadful at the Penn State dual, but they've improved modestly since.

    Second, Oklahoma State was absolutely terrible tonight, much worse than they are capable of doing.

    Neither of these teams is much of a threat to Penn State at this point.

  11. Grapple fan, Okey State has tons of talent in the room from grads. Also,Ohio State and Northwestern are Regional Training Centers and on the up and up. Guys like Humphrys, Herbert,Precin, Welch are on staff/ or recent members. Northwestern will have over 15-16 top twenty kids next year on their roster when they bring in Micic,Brill,and Sebastian on staff. In the last few years,Precin,Welch, McMullan,Trirtsis,Fox,Lang,Herbert,have all been ranked number one or two.


    First they prove it, and then we'll know. Until then, this is wishful thinking. Those wrestlers you mentioned have been very good, and they are some of the individuals I was talking about.

  12. Since my involvement in the sport since 1960, I’ve been fortunate to have been coached by, trained with, or coached with several individuals who’ve had considerable success during their wrestling and coaching careers. A brief overview of the qualifications of these individuals will provide you some insight on who influenced my philosophy, and development of my wrestling skills.

    Bob Williams was my high school coach in Kansas. He wrestled for Ed Gallagher at Oklahoma State in the late 1930s, placing 3rd at 177 pounds. We were taught a lot of two on one breakdowns, and were very proficient at pinning with half nelsons, chicken wings, and near side cradles. Our team was not very slick on our feet, knowing how to do double and single legs, and fireman’s carries. We were extremely tough down on the mat. Our high school opened my sophomore year; we had only 3 wrestlers with previous high school experience. Our first year we were 2-8 in dual meets. The next year we were 8-2 in dual meets losing only to the No.2 team in state twice. We finished 5th in state our second year, and were 6th the next year.

    Len Kauffman was my teammate on the Fort Wolters, Texas team I coached in 1968-1969. Len was 2nd and 3rd in the NCAA tournaments at Oregon State. He won two AAU national open freestyle championships in 1964 and 1969. In 1964 the only world tournament he participated in the placed 4th losing 3rd place on the last criteria of weighing more at the end of the match. Len led the nation in pins his junior and senior years with approximately 25 pins each year. According to Len approximately 90 percent of his pins were from using a nearside cradle. Len has the all-time highest pinning percentage in D-1 wrestling history at 82.5%, which is about 5% higher than the next highest percentage held by the legendary Danny Hodge.

    Tommy Evans was the first head coach I worked for at the University of Oklahoma. Tommy is one of the most decorated wrestlers in U. S. history. Tommy was 2nd as sophomore, 1st as a junior and senior, being selected the outstanding wrestler of the NCAA tournament the two years he won. His only loss in college was the NCAA finals as a sophomore. After his junior year he placed second in the Olympics at 147 pounds, taking the defending champion down 7 times, but was not awarded the victory. He was the head coach of the 1960 and 1963 NCAA championship teams. He was selected as the head coach of the 1968 U.S. Olympic freestyle wrestling team. Tommy was one of the first five inductees to the National Wrestling Hall of Fame located in Stillwater, Oklahoma

    Port Robertson was the assistant athletic director at the University of Oklahoma when I was an assistant Port was the head wrestling coach from 1947-1959 and 1962. He built the University of Oklahoma into a perennial national power. He was selected as one of the second five members inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. His teams won the 1950, 1951, and 1957 NCAA tournaments. He coached Tommy Evans, Danny Hodge, and Stan Abel who are all members of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. Port teams were known for their pinning ability, his teams hold the highest pinning percentage of any coach in NCAA history. As an example Danny Hodge in three Big 7 (now Big 8) pinned every opponent in three years. In 1956 he pinned all but one wrestler he faced that year. Port was extremely skilled in recruiting athletes who had not won a state title and turning them into NCAA champions. Stan Abel and Duwane Miller wrestled at Putnam City, the highest either finished was 3rd in state. Stan won 2 titles and Duwane 1 title at OU. I spent any free time I had at OU talking to Port about the mental aspects of wrestling. Port believed the following:

    1. If you could be an opponent by 5 or more points, you were superior enough a wrestler to pin him.

    2. It is easier to pin a good wrestler than it is to beat him, because the only place a good wrestler is not familiar with is being on his back.

    3. Every move must be learned to both sides. In pinning it is extremely important to be able to change off from one combination to another, and from side to side.

    4. Port felt the most important thing to learn about a move was why it wouldn’t work. He made sure that each wrestler drilled each move perfectly He stated many wrestlers don’t know why a move works. He made sure they understood why you did every component of a move in a certain way.

    5. You need to be in better condition than your opponent in order to wear him down physically and mentally. Many wrestlers will give up late in a match when they are and behind.

    Wayne Wells was the other student assistant for Tommy Evans in my first year at OU. Wayne was 1971 World and 1972 Olympic champion at 163 pounds in freestyle, and captain of the Olympic Freestyle Wrestling team. Distinguished Member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. He was a three-time all-American and NCAA champion. Wayne always stressed putting the man on his side when applying pinning combination. He always made sure that there was no “daylight” in a pinning combination before he put the opponent onto his back to pin him. He was particularly noted for his “high in the thigh” flanker and power half combination. This was his favorite pinning combination in international competition.

    Stan Abel was the head coach at Oklahoma from 1973 through 1992, producing 16 NCAA champions including Gary Breece (4-time all-American), Rod Kilgore (2-time champ, 4-time all-American), Dave (NCAA, World & Olympic Champion) and Mark Schultz (3-time NCAA Champ, 2-time World Champ, and Olympic Champ) both members of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, Andre Metzger (2-time NCAA Champ, 2nd in World), and Melvin Douglas (2-time NCAA champ, World Champ). Although know for his takedown skills, Stan’s teams were always skilled at mat wrestling especially at escapes and riding. Stan was considered to be one of the best technicians/clinicians in the world, particularly on single leg takedown. Stan is a member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame.

    Mickey Martin was a 2-time NCAA champion at OU 1962-1963. He was voted the outstanding wrestler in 1963 when he defeated Bobby Douglas. Mickey was the coach at Norman High when I was at OU. Mickey was noted for his mastery of the Bar Arm Ride Series.

    Duwane Miller was the 1961 NCAA champion at 123 pounds at OU, defeating Masaaki Hatta. Duwane was a high school and college teammate of Stan Abel’s. I helped Duwane at Kapaun-MtCarmel Catholic Prep High School in Wichita. Duwane had taken over as head coach in 1973-1974; the team went 1-4-2 in dual meets and 4th in state with 2 state champs including one freshman with no previous experience. Kapaun-MtCarmel had never finished higher than 20th in state before and had only two state champs in the approximately 20 years the school was open. I began helping as a volunteer coach at Kapaun-MtCarmel in the fall of 1974 after leaving OU. For the next 4 years we won 3 City league championships, 3 class 3A state championships, the only 2 Grand State Championships ever held in Kansas, and were undefeated in dual meets. Kapaun-MtCarmel competed each year in the Perry, Oklahoma tournament (One of the toughest invitational tournaments in Oklahoma, some teams have had kids win more state championships, than Perry tournaments) taking 2nd or 3rd every year. Duwane coached for 13 years before retiring with 8 state championships and 2 grand state championships, and a 114 dual meet winning streak He was selected the National High School Wrestling Coach of the Year in 1978 by Scholastic Wrestling News (now Wrestling USA).

    Duwane stressed pinning as much as Port Robertson did. His teams were very adept with the bar arm series, and their ability to change off. He also taught “trick” moves which are fundamentally sound, but which were not commonly used at the high school level. Duwane claimed that many of his wrestlers reached the state finals by pinning a better wrestler with a trick move.


    Lee Roy Smith Jr. served as the USA Wrestling Freestyle Coach helping the team to some of its best performances at the world and Olympic championships in 1988 and 1992. After that he became the head coach at Arizona State University. I worked closely with Lee Roy on scouting, and frequently attended practices. Head position which all of the Smith brothers excelled at was not developed until the late 1970s when the USA Wrestling staff began to study the Russians method of head position. This is the single biggest advancement in wrestling in the U.S. I’ve seen since leaving OU in 1974. Lee Roy was a NCAA champ and a World Silver Medalist in freestyle wrestling.


    Lee Roy had me teach the spiral ride and bar arm series at his wrestling camps in ASU. I used to also work with some of his wrestlers privately. Steve Blackford learned the bar arm series from me. In the quarterfinals of his junior year he was wrestling Kirk White defending NCAA champ at 165. White took him down, Steve reversed him, and was ahead 11-2 at the end of the first period, and won 16-5 with almost all of the near fall points coming from changing off in the bar arm ride series.


    So Granby Troll tell me who you are.

    I had to respond to this post because:

    1. I have great respect for Big Apple's posts, and now I know why. This one was awesome.

    2. I've never used a quote this long, and I was afraid I'd never get this chance again. I must hold the record for longest single quote in The Mat Forum history. Thanks, BA :)

  13. If you see bad behavior, then speak up. We shouldn't put up with coaches that mistreat their guys. However, I suspect that some fans will use forums as way to trash the reputation of a coach or program just because they harbor a grudge against a team, or don't like a coach's style. I've seen most of the coaches mentioned above and I prefer some to others, but I haven't personally witnessed a lack of support for any of their wrestlers.


    For the record, Smokey, the head coach at Oklahoma State is not a "young gun," but seasoned veteran who does a great job year after year. I would like to add Nebraska to the list as a place where the coaches give great support to their guys. As for Northwestern and Ohio State, those coaches have yet to prove that they can develop contending teams, but do recruit good talent. It's not about youth, but ability. Right now, I'd say that Cornell, Nebraska, and Missouri are places where talent is really developed.

  14. I have a feeling that Clark has really pissed off Brands. Who knows, maybe we'll hear that Clark will transfer to another school. Wouldn't be the first time.

    Besides, having the both of them is non-sustainable IMO.

    No evidence of that, and Clark has enough talent to weather early season difficulty. Besides, injuries happen, and having someone to step right in is a huge asset. Clark's an Iowa guy and I don't see him transferring. Just like Ramos and McD, Clark and Gilman will find an accommodation that works.


    Back to the real subject of this thread, I don't predict the Hawks, but I will say that the Pokes may be a little weaker this season than last. All the scenarios in the earlier posts are plausible outcomes. Also St. John and Evans will have to bring their "A" games to this meet.

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