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Everything posted by StanDziedzic

  1. gutfirst wrote: why add "so cheaply" to the sentence in bold? Of course, "so cheaply" is unnecessary, as any amount in my opinion should be insufficient. Nonetheless, we found it incredulous that the Wrestling Federation, for a mere $400,000/yr., would allow duPont to sit in an athlete's corner under the guise that the wrestlers requested his presence. Think NFL, NBA and NHL owners have to pay $100s of millions for such privilege!
  2. My tenure as USA National Coach ended following the completion of the '84 Olympic Games in L.A. and I remember a happier Mark Schultz than he is portrayed in Foxcatcher. From '84 until Jim Scherr took over as Exec. Director and I was asked to be a member of the '96 Atlanta Olympic risk-mgmt. committee, I had little contact w/ then-USA Wrestling Federation or John duPont. Though I generally attended most of the World Championships, other than a large dinner party @ the W.C in Clermont Ferrand and a brief meeting on the Foxcatcher property, I don't think I ever spoke w/ him. Yet I have to say he did serve as an easy target for those of us in the stands at the WC each year, as he sat in the corner of several US Wrestlers and on occasion in Valentin Jordanov's corner. I'd sometimes tease Dave, "Soon I'll be old enough to enter the veteran world championship and duPont doesn't have enough money to buy me off." With his familiar look, Dave would respond: "You're joking--AREN'T YOU?" Those of us watching the World Championships generally agreed that it was unfortunate for wrestling that it could be bought so cheaply--though admittedly it was easy for us to criticize since we didn't have the responsibility to fund the programs. It's unfortunate Mark feels the movie insinuates that perhaps John duPont was gay--though at the time one had to question DuPont's motifs and sexuality. The director, Bennett Miller, knew John duPont was not gay. I asked him that exact question: "I didn't know duPont, but many felt he may have been gay." Miller answered that John duPont was a-sexual. He said that during his research, he learned duPont had an equestrian accident where he lost his testicles rendering him a-sexual. Mark has reason to be upset w/ the way Foxcatcher portrays him, but he is best to leave well-enough-alone.
  3. The issue is not citizenship alone. If a wrestler represented a country, there is a 2 year waiting period before he/she can enter for another country @ the WC and 3 yr for the Olympic Games, unless granted a waiver. Any wrestler who has wrestled for a country in Budapest, for example, and has not yet established residency @ a new country, he/she would not be eligible to compete @ either the 2015 WC or the 2016 Olympic Games without the approval of the original country. What's more, if he/she won a medal, the new country must compensate the original country--on a scale up to as much as 300,000 Euros. There are some exception for those who have been granted legal asylum and for those under the age of majority.
  4. Go to FILA's website, access Connection under the Athletes' tab. In the top, far right, tab onto Analysis of OG 2012. This provides Dr Tunnemann's data up to and including 2012. Under the Coaches tab click onto coaches' courses this includes the 2013 WC.
  5. Perhaps there was a touch of tongue-in-cheek in Sergei's diving example; but wrestling competitively @ an early age is generally frowned upon by Sergei and the Russian's in general. The risk of burning out talented wrestlers outweighs any benefit from the experience.
  6. Not sure if it matters. I didn't know the sport of wrestling existed until I was a freshman in high school; and, other than a few local matches, only started wrestling freestyle after my collegiate career ended. As most in the Soviet system, Sergei most likely didn't enter competitive situations until 16-18 years old or even later. They believe [rightly, if the object is solely to develop the best for the World & Olympic Championships] the developmental yrs are better dedicated to perfecting technical skills; not losing weight or other distractions associated w/ competing. Since they're in it for the long haul, they have plenty of time for competition later. In the USA the vast majority of our young wrestlers will never even contemplate wrestling after high school, let alone after college. Nonetheless, for them, the competitive situation--including the weight reduction--teaches valuable lessons and often plays a vital role in their personal and character development. I don't believe we should or will ever sacrifice this component of U.S. wrestling for the benefit of the development of a few. Plus I don't believe we need to change, other than a few minor adjustments that in my opinion would both improve our folkstyle and @ the same time make the transition to freestyle easier. Our wrestling community is fairly inventive when left to its own devices. Unfortunately, a granby-roll doesn't work well in intern'l. wrestling. A switch and cross-arm role, however, are surprisingly easy to execute intern'lly.
  7. Interestingly, when this topic arose in our discussions, the National Coaches admitted there was a difference. Yet they emphasized: "When conditioning becomes the deciding factor Stan, you can be certain, we will be better conditioned." They argued the difference in technical proficiency used less energy and provided the appearance of being stronger than they were--so the time spent in becoming technically more proficient was time well spent and superior to let's say, running stadium steps w/ some one on your back. This of course was good to know. I realized my task [not easy I would add]: Make the USA team technically, tactically & strategically sufficient so that conditioning was the deciding factor before they could adjust. The other factor to consider is the length of time the Russians wrestle. Before Lee Kemp, the USA wrestlers won their Gold medals and retired in order to make-a-living. There was no training center nor renumeration for winning, just satisfaction. The Russians, on the otherhand, knew they were in for the long haul and it was a means of surviving--relatively speaking, quite well. Take for instance Sergei Beleglazov and John Smith. John won 6 Gold medals by the time he was 26. Sergei won 8 Gold medals, but between 25 & 33 yr's of age. The Russian may pace a bit for longevity.
  8. If you're interested in wrestling books from the region try to find, Our Ali, written by Yuri Shakhmuradov [Russian, left side of page & English, right side] about the "father of Dagestan wrestling" Ali Aliev. Aliev, often noted for his cross-ankle turn, was a 5x World Champion in the '60s--though never an Olympic Medalist. Interestingly, he & Gray Simmons wrestled to a tie in '64 and Don Behm bested him in '68. Here is the iban # ISBN 978-5-98930-025-7. Yuri Shakhmuradov is from Dagestan and was a World Champion ['70 or '71], then the USSR's freestyle coach the next yr. thru the end of the decade when Yarygin took over. Most recently, he's returned as RUS women's coach. [perhaps why the Russian women were so improved in London].
  9. The wrestling room and practice look strikingly similar to any in Baku, Mahachkala, Yerevan or even Tbilisi as far back as the 70s or 80s. Missing along the row of benches, though, are the large felt tongs one was required to don over your shoes as you entered the wrestling facility in Tbilisi. One wouldn't dare smudge the constantly polished floors of the hallowed wrestling practice venue--despite toilet facilities that reeked. I knew wrestling had to be popular in Tbilisi when the workman nailed the wrestling mat cover to the 10,000 seat venue hardwood floor. Evident--only in hindsight--was the deep seated disdain some harbored for their countrymen--among the Caucasus Republics. Each entered its own team along w/ the Soviet national team. I recall when Yumin [4x World Champ and '76 Olym Champ] from Mahachkala lost in an early rd of Tbilisi [rd robin format] to a wrestler from the ARM team. As the 2 warmed-up for the next rd, Yumin strolled over to him and foot-swept him to his back on the bare gym floor. As the USA National coach @ the time, I found the interchange amusing, but gave it little thought until the USSR was dismantled and the deep seated resentment manifested itself in a few military skirmishes--AZE vs ARM; Chechnya vs RUS, RUS vs GEO! @ the banquet following the competition, Yuri Shakmuradov the then-Soviet Freestyle coach noted: "I know the USA has its problems as its 2 wrestling organizations battle for control, but we also have our problems. Look at this tournament; 4 of my 6 World Champions were beaten by one of their countrymen." I politely interrupted him and said: "Yuri I wish I had such a problem."
  10. Yes audited #s are customarily provided to the FILA Bureau members @ its next meeting. In this case, late February/early March.
  11. No you don't. That tells you little. You poll the countries who enter wrestler in the World Championship. Each has every reason to reflect their true make-up and no benefit to do otherwise. Let's take it from the extreme. Let's say 10 countries have 100 wrestlers each @ the 2 middle weights--74, 85 and only 1 wrestler each @ 55, 65 & 97, 125. These 10 countries enter 1 wrestler--all they're allowed--@ every weight class. There are 4 other countries, who have only 2 wrestlers and enter 1 each @ 55 & 65 kg and 2 countries who have 1 wrestler each @ 97 and 125. The result: 55kg--14 entries; 65--14, 74--10, 85--10, 97--12, & 125--12. 55 & 65 are 40% > than 74 & 85 despite there being 71 x as many 74 & 85 kg wrestlers in the world?
  12. Athletes participation tells me more about the number of weight classes in any weight range than it does about the relevant size or where the quality of the world's wrestling population recides. Let's take the USA as an example. The US will enter a wrestler @ every weight class, even if the weight classes were 50, 57, 62, 68, 74 & 100--so will IRI, RUS, GEO, BUL, GER, AZE, JPN, S. KOR and a few other of the large countries w/ advanced wrestling programs. Yet the quality @ any one class or the make-up of the wrestling population in these countries is vastly different. By your assessment, since 2001 wrestlers in the USA have been evenly distributed in each of the 7 weights and have not increased in size or weight during that time--since we entered a wrestler @ each of those weight classes every yr? Tell that one to any USA National Coach! I can assure you'd get quite an argument from--D. Schultz [if he were still w/ us], Monday, Kemp, Gutches, Jackson, M. Schultz, Campbell, Slay, Keaser, Gable, B. Zadick, Wells, J. Peterson, B. Peterson, Fozzard, B. Scherr, E. Banack, L. Banach, J Varner, C. Sanderson, S. Neal, Dziedzic--all won Gold medals in either the World C. or Olympic Games, but @ some time during their careers lost a USA team trial. Only H. Cejuda @ 55 kg or 60 kg comes to mind as fitting that description. The overwhelming # of successful wrestlers in the USA have been between 68 and 96 kg--John Smith being one exception. Only if each country is allowed to enter as many wrestlers/weight as they wish, is participation/wtg class a meaningful indication of the world's wrestling population. When the 6 wtg classes are wrestled in the 2015 World Championship, I believe you'll find a fairly even distribution among the participants around 80 kg. You're mixing separate arguments. The Technical Commission agenda item was: The 6 Olympic weight classes. The center point for the 6 was decided 80 kg. This was a somewhat academic exercise, since more important the average of the countless # of inputs realized the same result. As I said before, no one person agreed w/ each wtg class, but all agreed the outcome represented a fair consensus and was indicative of the most adept of the wrestling population worldwide--and not of FILA. As a note: the 1 or 2 kg difference arguments did not resonate among the national coaches and World or Olympic Champions on the Technical Commission [4 ex- or current national coaches and 8 World and/or Olympic Champions]. Each understands the capability of the best to prepare appropriately. Just look @ the 22 USA Gold medallists above--each had to go from 137 or 145#s to 149.5; 158 to 162.8#s; 167 or 177 #s to 180.5 or 184.8#s; or 190 to 198#s--sometimes in a matter of months?? It didn't seem to matter, each quickly adapted to the new weights class. In addition, none of the other commissions--if my memory is correct--submitted what ifs: weight classes if there were 7, 8 or 9. Once the 6 were established, it was 1st agreed that, should there be more weight classes in 2014, the 6 had to be included as the core. The subsequent discussions were disjointed, as no one knew if the # would be 7, 8 or 9. In my opinion the result is fraught w/ self-interest [always a possibility, especially when some of the commission members have a vested interest @ stake--i.e. current athlete or coach]. I would've guessed going into the meetings that it would be decided to use 7 weights and that 80 kg would be the 7th. Perhaps @ the FILA B. meetings in late February, it will be fixed. I do not believe, however, that the 6 can change. I agree completely.
  13. GranbyTroll wrote: StanDziedzic wrote: When there are a hundred or so different opinions, a kilo or even 3 kilos difference doesn't move the needle much. 3 kg is almost a whole NCAA weight class. That's a big difference.
  14. The gallup poll of Americans, by itself, has little value. Yet when coupled w/ entires/wtg over the past 10 yrs and similar avg wtg analyses among the population in BUL, GEO, AZE ARM, RUS, S. KOR, JPN, IRI & TUR; a picture of an avg wrestler who is bigger and heavier than 20 yrs ago becomes clearer. In addition, confidence in the avg of 80 kg grows. This echoes most everyone who was part of the negotiations for the 6 wtg classes. There are few if any of the hundreds who weighed in on the subject that agree w/ every wtg. My final wtgs, I believe, were: 56, 64, 74, 85, 97, 122. Nonetheless, the wtgs represent as close to a consensus as possible in an org. comprised of 177 different countries, each of course w/ its own agenda. When there are a hundred or so different opinions, a kilo or even 3 kilos difference doesn't move the needle much.
  15. It's difficult to fathom such a spirited and talented person losing his life so prematurely. His 'will-to-win' always made me think: There is someone who epitomizes an "overachiever."
  16. I can't emphasize enough the rules are a result of the input from the worldwide wrestling community, not the FILA Bureau--as I assume many define FILA. If the world of wrestling wanted OT, I assume the FILA Bureau would have ratified the recommendation. For example, the Athletes' Commission--whose opinion weighed heavily on the Technical Commission and its recommended changes--offered the following: "Regarding the new rules, which has made wrestling matches more exciting in general, some of us believed that there are too many ways to win a match that can be confusing for spectators and participants alike (i.e. 2-3 point and 1-5 point actions). Especially when you also have to consider amplitude of points, last point scored and cautions when it is a tie situation. We also debated on the 7 point technical superiority, some suggesting that perhaps it remain 7 points for Greco and 10 for Freestyle. I believe that making it too easy to win cuts down on the length of a match, minimizing the importance of stamina, strategy, and technique while emphasizing power." All of the Athletes' Commission's suggested changes were incorporated into the recommended modifications. No group or NF--except USA--suggested OT. A member of the Technical Commission during the deliberation broached the subject. The suggestion did not resonate w/ any commission member and I asked if he would like to call for a vote. He indicated: "No, it is not necessary." The 6 Olympic wtg classes served as the foundation of the debate. As one might expect, hundreds weighed-in. Much of the logic centered around the size of wrestlers worldwide where the medals are earned--which differs by style. Of course, many tried to sway the group to their own self-interest. The Scientific Commission helped w/ research regarding avg wtg. [see article] http://www.gallup.com/poll/150947/self- ... -1990.aspx. The center wtg. of a well conditioned wrestler in the regions where roughly 60% of the medals are earned was established @ 86-88 kg. Taking a realistic [yet not recommending] approach, it was agreed that a loss of 6-8 kg in a good workout for a well-conditioned, World Class Senior wrestler was the norm. Result: mid-point 80 kg--3 wtg classes above and 3 wtg classes below. Next the debate centered around the lightest and the heaviest wtg classes. In order to reduce the effect of gaming--it was agreed to drop the lowest and highest and avg the remaining suggestions. Rounding the number resulted in 58 kg., but it was agreed that 57 kg was where we'd start w/ Freestyle for light weight Asian wrestlers. The Athletes suggested the following differences in wtgs (7, 9, 11, 14, 25 kg): 57 + 7= 64; 65 was agreed; 65 + 9 = 74 kg, which was agreed; 74 + 11= 85, 86 was agreed; 86 + 14=100, 97 was agreed [argument--a 97+ kg wrestler could handle a 125 kg wrestler]; 97 + 25= 122 kg, 125 was agreed. After establishing the 6, how many wtg classes for the non-Olympic yrs was discussed. If 7 what wtg, if 8 wtg what 2 wtgs, if 9 what 3 wtgs. Many pushed 9 w/ 80 kg as the 3rd. As a note, there was a bit of gamesmanship in this process and too many in my opinion were motivated by self-interest. Next phase: Since it was such an important topic, each FILA Bureau member was given the Technical Commission's recommendations and asked to weigh-in. The results were averaged and then the FILA Bureau ratified the results.
  17. http://www.francsjeux.com/2013/12/27/il ... lutte/7733 Translation below: The news of the international sports movement has had little respite and dead time during the year 2013. Elections, nominations , events, controversies ... FrancsJeux was sorting through a lot especially provided. Out of the hat and the top 10 men, women , sports, countries or institutions that have made for us in 2013. # 7 : The Struggle Its year 2013. Unlikely year for wrestling and for its international federation , FILA . In February, the IOC Executive Board took everyone by surprise by announcing that wrestling was recommended for exclusion from the Olympic program starting w/ the 2020 Games . The leaders of this ancient discipline, in the Olympics since 708 BC, did not see the blow coming. They were gathered in Bangkok for a FILA Bureau meeting when the IOC referred their sport into oblivion . The reaction of wrestlers from around the world (80 million practitioners ) was spectacular. American athletes went to Tehran to "unify their anger " against the threat of the IOC. The Iranians then traveled to New York for a high-profile exhibition in the Central Station. Vladimir Putin himself has cracked a comment Combat Support Wrestling, holding its exclusion "unjustified" . In September , Buenos Aires , the General Assembly of the IOC overturns the proposal of the Executive Committee . Wrestling got 49 votes , against 24 baseball / softball and squash 22 to retain its place in the Olympic program. Much ado about nothing. What to expect in 2014. The coming year will certainly be quieter. Remaining games , wrestling saved its future. The shot was close, but the long months of uncertainty have been beneficial to wrestling. FILA has revamped its regulations and practices to modernize its image and its competitions , not to mention changing its weight categories. The result will be to observe the World Championships in 2014 , scheduled early September in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The storm that rumbled over its head had the merit of placing wrestling in the spotlight . In 2014 , the high risk to regain its usual anonymity.
  18. Yes, the Chairman of the Media Commission is also an Executive member of the Technical Commission. In fact, he hosted the 1st working group meeting last year in Budapest where the foundation of the rules were discussed and he participated in the recent meeting held in Switzerland to make the final rule and weight class recommendations.
  19. The object of the rule changes has never been to make the rules 'simpler,' only 'easier to understand for the viewing audience'--perhaps a subtle but certainly not insignificant difference. This mandate in some cases resulted in recommendations that may not have been the consensus view. Also as a distinction: The new rules were not fashioned, nor the weight classes constructed by the FILA Bureau. More accurately, they are the compilation of the suggestions from the worldwide wrestling community, formulated by the Technical Committee and then ratified by the Bureau, as required by its constitution as the intern'l governing body. The body of the rules represent the majority or consensus view of the 177 member nations--and more specifically the Athletes Commission 1 of 7 a FILA Bureau member; the Scientific Commission 0 of 5; Medical 2 of 14; and most important the Technical Commission 6 of 20 [4 of 12 attended meeting to compile the final recommendations to the Bureau]. Good example! Because the referees, wrestlers and viewing audience often found it difficult to discern what differentiated a 5 or 3 pt maneuver in Freestyle; it was agreed to make it 'easier to understand' to score both 4 pts. The GR community agreed it would be 'simpler' to score both as 4 pts; yet their viewing audience, referees, wrestlers and coaches [distinctly different from freestyle] would find it confusing. How could a 'grand amplitude' throw, the essence of our discipline, be scored the same as a mere throw? Hence it was decided that it would be 'easier for their viewing audience to understand' if they kept the 2 distinct--even if it would be 'simpler' to score both 4pts. As another example, the vast majority felt a takedown where a wrestler takes his/her opponent from standing to the mat by virtue of his/her initiative as opposed to countering an attack and 'passing behind' [as it is referred to in intern'l wrestling community] was worth more. Nonetheless, the same majority realized the 'viewing audience--not to mention the wrestlers, coaches and referees--found it difficult to understand' or even agree on the often subtle difference. Think a snapdown into a front headlock vs. a front headlock counter! This, of course, was intertwined w/ scoring change to increase from 3 pts to 4 pts; all neutral position maneuvers w/ exposure in freestyle. On the flip side, both the GR and Freestyle community agreed it would be 'simpler' to score all turns 2 pts, but not 'easier for the viewing audience to understand.' In fact, most felt the viewing audience would be confused. It was agreed that even the novice fan finds it 'easier to understand' that a hand-to-hand turn is not as well executed as a turn where the wrestler goes across his shoulders or elbows. Think: it'd be 'simpler' if every time a place kicker in USA football kicked it thru the uprights it was scored the same; yet 'the football viewing audience would find it confusing,' if an extra point was equal to a field-goal!
  20. Many also may not have noticed the results of the 1st ever Athletes Commission elections held in Budapest. Each entry @ this year's World Championships in all 3 disciplines were provided a ballot and had the right to vote for up to 7 candidates. The voting boxes were located @ various locations in the arena throughout the competition. Tabulation: 3 women [1 of whom was later elected by the group as the Athletes' FILA Bureau Member], 3 men's GR and 1 men's Freestyle.
  21. A few thoughts! The topic was 1st broached when a question was asked by the IOC Sports Department: "Why are the weight classes and the uniforms the same in the men's Freestyle and Greco-Roman disciplines"? The search for an answer found, there no longer is a good answer. Few, even among the most dedicated Olympic fans, could correctly answer: How many kilograms is Middleweight in Boxing, Judo, Weightlifting, Taekwondo or Wrestling? Even fewer had a clue how the classes have changed over the last 4 Olympic Games. It was difficult to argue, the fans would find it confusing if GR & Freestyle in Middleweight or Welterweight, for example, were different. Keeping the wtg classes the same, some argued, provided the chance for a wrestler to win or medal in both styles. Research uncovered, the last wrestler to win a medal in both styles was in '72 Olympics--Karlson 74 kg SWE. No wrestler in the past several Olympics could be found to have qualified in both styles. The median and mean weight of the participants in the past 8 World Championships in Greco-Roman are meaningfully higher than in Freestyle. The number of entries in Greco-Roman is also roughly 8% greater. And, the medalist in GR are more likely to be from parts of the world where the average weight of the population is > than in Freestyle. [Asia vs N. Europe] At the margin, providing different weight class opportunities for the worldwide wrestling communities got the nod. We all know there are many variables that go into the decision process of wrestlers when choosing the style to pursue. This just may give some aspiring Olympic wrestler in the world a better fit. Besides, as the world evolves there is nothing preventing wrestling from adjusting the weight classes to keep pace.
  22. Granby Troll wrote, I'd rather have all turns worth 2 points and the 1 point bonus, than no 1 point bonus and 1 point hand-to-hand. In my meager Cadet/Junior FS career, I made a living on holding a high-gut for the full 5 count to get the bonus point and a chance to do it again. It seems that the changes to continuous turns and no bonus point obsolete the high-gut. 1. The proponents of no-bonus pt argue, the purpose remains to turn and pin one's opponent. Holding him/her for 5 seconds promotes inactivity in their view and makes wrestling less dynamic. The viewing audience doesn't want to wait for the 5 count to end, they prefer to let wrestling continue. 2. As to the 1 pt for hand-to-hand: It's agreed, indeed it's simpler to score all turns as 2 pts; but, it diminishes the primary goal of the sport--determine the best wrestler. The proponents emphasize: It would be simpler if all dbl back, single twist vaults in gymnastics were scored 9.98. It would be simpler if all baskets in basketball were scored 2 pts. Yet everyone understands that the marginal difference in the perfection of the vault 9.98 vs 9.99 for example or the additional point for a basket shot from outside the 3 pt line requires more skill and differentiates among the competitors. Likewise they continue, a gut-wrench, cross-ankle turn or crotch-lift in wrestling where the opponent is forced across his/her back is executed better than one where the opponent goes hand-to-hand and not to recognize and reward the difference will promote sloppy wrestling.
  23. A hand-to-hand exposure is still 1 point.
  24. I'd expect sooner, perhaps within the year. The primary concern of the Technical Commission is that the material used in the Greco-Roman uniform be conducive to securing a better grip than the current singlets.
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