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PA-Fan

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Everything posted by PA-Fan

  1. Honestly, I don't see any reason to think that if Ramos was awarded the 2 NF that the outcome of the match is any different. Like someone said...he had over 3 mins to work after this no call...and he didn't do anything. Add that to the fact that the match was all Stieber up to that sequence - and it was a mistake on his part that caused it. Even with the 2 - Stieber still wins. Also - I stated going into it that Ramos needed a mistake from Logan to win - boy did that opportunity come!!! Strange - Logan is never out of position like that :shock: Easilly one of the most exciting moments of the tournament!
  2. The only reason I open this thread anymore is to see how many people can literally re-state an argument or idea that has already been discussed - in this same thread. :lol:
  3. Off topic I know, but why won't they wrestle next year? What weight are they planning on going? Anyone know? thanks, and sorry, I am definately not in the loop on this. Taylor says he isn't cutting weight at 165 aand I doubt they'd want to bump Brown out of the lineup so I'd say Taylor goes 165 again. As for Howe, I think the word on the street is that he'll go 174. That is what I think. If Taylor can make 165 again how can you bump Brown out as a returning finalist at 174? Very doubtful he goes up. I actually hope they are both at 165 though - I want to see Taylor vs. Howe.
  4. You can't compare the post-college success of guys in college to guys in college because they haven't competed internationally yet. That just isn't a good way to compare them. In time, Dake's opponents will compete internationally and then that comparison may be fair. 4 on that list were National Champs - so it is not as if the guys Cael beat only have post-college International success. Also, lets call a spade a spade. Kevin LeValley is not making any world or Olympic teams. Neither are Marion or Vinson in all probability. DSJ and Molinaro - doubt it. Even Taylor is looking like he is jammed up behind Burroughs. Im not saying Dake beat (or lost to) a bunch of nobodys - obviously not - but I dont quite think we have to wait and see what all these guys do internationally...many of them have no chance to even make the National team.
  5. It amazes me that someone new always jumps in so late and repeats the thing that has been being discussed for 3 pages already...regardless of how many losses Cael had as a RS - he still went 4 years without a loss in NCAA competition. (Not to mention he destroyed Jenn 3 times after that loss) Here are a few thing Dake never did. -Cael went 4 years of NCAA D1 competition without a lose -Cael won the OW at NCAAs 4 times, and the Hodge Trophy 3 times. -Cael didn't move up to face and defeat the most dominant college wrestler - he was the most dominant college wrestler.
  6. I think it will be more common going forward - still an unbelievable achievement though. Stieber is you next 4 timer (barring any injury - knock on wood). I don't see anyone coming up the threaten him - and Ramos is the only one who seems close right now - and Stieber has him #. Ruth is a 3 timer - nobody is touching him. Taylor a 2 timer and 4 time finalist (possibly a 1 timer - wow - and 4 time finalist if him and Howe meet - but I doubt they will) As for what Cael did - I think this one stands un-replicated. Maybe someone soon will have an outside Chance ( pun intended :D )Like someone already said - there are too many variables. It is truly amazing that Cael never got sick/injured/had a bad day etc...
  7. :? Kyle Dake is way, way, way, way, way, way, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than everybody else Taylor wrestled at 165. That is why.
  8. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    The way the Hodge is decided was not changed (as in what needs to be done to earn the award)- the committee who decides it was changed...that is not the same thing. Think of it like this: how does not equal who (although they have the same letters). That is what I said. I said The way the Hodge is decided was not changed (as in what needs to be done to earn the award). Now, in your representation of what I said that you just made you are either being 1) intentionally dishonest and purposely/knowingly misrepresenting what I actually said in order to point out a contradiction that does not actually exist...or 2) you honestly don't have great reading comprehension skills. Either way - job well done. And "counter the principles of mathematics"? :roll: This is the discussion I bowed out of - I stated why I did so in my previous post - and you just demonstrated to me again why I did.
  9. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    Wrong. The Hodge is not the "Most Dominant" Award. From the WIN website : "The Dan Hodge Trophy, considered the Heisman Trophy for amateur wrestling, has been presented to the nation’s best wrestler since 1995." The Hodge is for the Nation's best wrestler - with an emphasis on # of pins since Hodge himself was a great pinner. In fact, the NCAA recently came up with a Most Dominant Award - seems unnecessary considering the Hodge is for most dominant, no?
  10. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    No, no, no. Here you go again telling me why im doing something, or what my argument would be, or what I think - and then responding to yourself stating what you think I would or did say. Give it a rest already - it's called building a straw man. The way the Hodge is decided was not changed (as in what needs to be done to earn the award)- the committee who decides it was changed...that is not the same thing. Think of it like this: how does not equal who (although they have the same letters). Bully huh? Interesting. Im a bully because I don't agree with someone -and state why I dont agree- stating that Ruth wins criteria over Stieber when he clearly does not. And when You continually attempt to tell me that Ruth was "more undefeated" than Stieber. Gotcha - crystal clear. Discussing on a discussion board = Bully. Im not even going to address any of the other points you made because it's become a moot point (see this is why I actually bowed out of that mind-numbing discussion with you) - you just continue to state things over and over in different ways after I counter them instead of moving on with the discussion (how many different ways can you say that undefeated National Champion does not equal undefeated National Champion?)
  11. Ehh I gotta say that Stieber kid is pretty good! Im as big a DT fan as there is - but I dont have a problem making it Ruth/Taylor/Stieber in any order you wish - they are all on the same level it seems.
  12. Why exactly would Taylor not have been "likely" to win? I don't even want an answer because it will derail the thread. I just want you to consider that. He is a clear favorite at 174 if he went up - hence making him "likely" to win.
  13. The stall call I wouldn't say was 100% bogus. Dake was riding that high half with intent to keep Taylor down and not turn him - so getting hit with it after such a long ride wasn't all that crazy. Although if the roles were reversed Taylor does the same - so who knows really. By the standard that they call stalling in NCAA today I don't think Dake was stalling there - by normal standards maybe he was - although I think he did it effectively enough to not get called at all. Dake flat out deserved the win. I really, realllyyyy, though Taylor was going to do it the way he came out (especially after his post-semis interview comments!!). But there is a reason Kyle Dake accomplished what he did - even giving up the first TD in such a huge match to such a solid opponent didn't phase him. The kid is a winner and the definition of a Champion - I am going to miss watching his boring defensive style of dominance!! :D
  14. Yes, that does matter. A lot of Hawkeye fans are saying that there is an issue with McDonough's shoulder, which does add up with some of the things we saw him struggling with that he used to have no issue with, most notably when he would get in and grab a leg, and just suck it in even if he was stretched out. He seemed to have much less strength and was struggling to do that. So I think it will depend on the individual where he goes. I think he was a great Hawk, but I think I need some time and separation from this season to unbiasedly put him in the All-Time Hawkeyes rankings. I think something had to be going on this year (even if it was just weight cutting problems)...he just wasn't the same this year as his first 3. Sure, some great rising talent came up this year...but I would never have though McD was not going to place. Regardless of where he ranks among the all time Iowa great - he is certainly still among them. Great career, even with this disappointing finish. I mean how many people in NCAA history, not only Iowa history, have been to 3 Finals and won 2. Hats off to McD. I hope all is well and it wasn't anything long-term that caused things to end this way.
  15. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    When did I say 38 isn't greater than 31? Sure it is. But you cant take that fact and turn it into 38-0 with an NCAA title is "more undefeated" than 31-0 with an NCAA title - that is just ridiculous. Opinions are opinions...but this is common sense - and is about as easy a concept to understand as 38 > 31 is for a 3rd grader. In terms of "Record" as a criteria for an award...if there is a 0 at the back end, and you didn't do something ridiculous like wrestle two matches and stop at 2-0, undefeated Nation Champion = undefeated Nation Champion, period. Since you do think that someone can be "more undefeated" than someone else...im just going to bow out of this conversations now after this thought.
  16. Yea I think it was similar to JO's statement. I think it was a legit injury time out. And him saying what he said was consistent with him having his bell rung I think.
  17. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    You arn't serious, are you? They were both undefeated - # of victories is not a tie breaker when two wrestlers are undefeated - they are both just undefeated. Because Ruth wrestled more matches since Stieber was injured - he is not "more undefeated" than Stieber. They are both undefeated National Champions, period. Their records are a wash. It is very, very simple. As for your rant you just went on about Ruth in the finals and Stieber having close matches, and techs and pins vs majors and blah blah (i got lost in your nonsensical ranting) - talking to yourself is just weird, so stop it. My favorite part of your post is the last part. I have no idea what "record" means since I don't work for WIN - but you sure do! They way to differentiate who was "more undefeated" is by who's team schedule had more matches on it, obviously! :roll: Finally, yes I think Dake should get it and he deserves it according to the criteria. That is besides the point, we were talking specifically about Ruth vs. Stieber.
  18. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    Not meant as an insult at all - I don't do that on here unprovoked. If it came off that way I apologize.
  19. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    Another thing you may not know, or at least seem not to, is that the NCAA tournament counts as well. Stieber beat two of the AAs (&th and 4th) in his bracket by tech fall on his way to the finals...where he beat Ramos - who beat Graff twice - again. It is not as if he doesn't just destroy AA quality opponents - he does.
  20. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    Him missing the Wisc and Iowa duals changes nothing, at all. Do you think he loses to Graff or Ramos? No. Him not wrestling these matches kills criteria 1 and 5? What are you even talking about? He was still undefeated, and he still wrestled Ramos - and injury doesn't change things. Ill say it again, you obviously don't understand the criteria. Ruth has him on 1, 4, 5 ,6, and 7? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? 1. Record - Ruth doesn't have him beat - they are both undefeated - its a tie. 4. Past Credentials - I already explained this to you - Stieber is 2 for 2 in terms of National titles - Ruth has a 3rd place finish. No matter how much you want this for Ruth - it goes to Stieber. (at best its a tie) 5. Quality of Competition - Give this to Ruth. 6. Sportsmanship/citizenship - What gives this to Ruth? Stieber is known as one of the nicest kids around. 7. Heart - Same here...why Ruth over him now? You are trying soo hard to turn the criteria for Ruth so he gets more of them - but you are wrong, and that is not how it works. The criteria are weighted - it is not who has more wins. Finally, Dake should win - I want to mention that again. But Ruth shouldn't get it over Stieber - close but no. There are ways to argue that he should... but the arguments you choose to support Ruth over Stieber are just nonsensical.
  21. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    I just don't see the Hodge as a guy who wrestled 27 matches, especially since he missed some of his biggest opposition during that injury as well (matches with Graff and Ramos), so that bolsters his pin %. It doesn't matter if you think that 27 matches isn't enough - literally it does not matter one bit. It is becoming clear that you don't understand the criteria - so it is a good thing you are not on the voting board for the award. The Hodge isnt a "most dominant award" - it isnt a "toughest competition award" - it isnt a "who wrestled the most matches" award - it is a commemorative award based on 7 criteria - of which the things you are citing are only 2. It is not that hard to understand.
  22. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    According to who, you? Wouldn't Stieber having as many pins as Ruth in less matches be more impressive? (Hint: the answer is yes - it means he pinned at a higher % than Ruth this year) He did wrestle enough, period. But again, it should be Dake's - so it shouldn't matter. He wrestled in a MUCH weaker weight class. That isn't even close. I like Stieber and Ohio State, but I think Ruth should be ahead of him. Ok...but that isn't what I was responding to. You said Stieber didn't wrestle enough...sure he did. And again - strength of competition is just one of 7 criteria - and the 5 one at that.
  23. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    According to who, you? Wouldn't Stieber having as many pins as Ruth in less matches be more impressive? (Hint: the answer is yes - it means he pinned at a higher % than Ruth this year) He did wrestle enough, period. But again, it should be Dake's - so it shouldn't matter.
  24. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    2. You have to count the NCAA tournament also. 4, You give Ruth past credentials because they both have 2 titles - and Ruth also has an AA finish? REALLY? Stieber doesn't have an AA finish because he has only been to two NCAA tourneys and won both! Stieber gets this criteria over Ruth. You are just wrong here. And Like I said in my last post...I believe the criteria are weighted top to bottom...so if you wash 1 and 2 for Ruth and Stieber...Stieber wins the next 2. But it shouldn't matter - because Dake should win it.
  25. PA-Fan

    Hodge

    Unless Im wrong...the criteria are not weighted evenly. They are set up from top to bottom - basically the idea being that if one is a wash the next is considered as a way to break that "tie".
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