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PA-Fan

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Everything posted by PA-Fan

  1. There is no way Taylor is in the number 2 slot with so many undefeated wrestlers left. Absolutely no way - weather we beats Dake or not - they ALL will have to drop a match for him to win the Hodge this year. It is not like he is just blowing them away in dominance, just happens to have a loss - they are all just as dominant if not more so. I am as big of a Taylor fan there is - but to say he is in consideration above these guys is just crazy. Also, no way Kilgore is that far back - he is 2/3 at worst.
  2. So you are one of those people who thinks the criteria just doesn't matter? Got it. Learn the criteria and then realize why there have not been two "horrifically brutal" selections. Also, beating the defending Hodge winner has NOTHING at all to do with winner the award...not the slightest bit. If Dake wins a title and loses the Hodge, it will be because Kilgore or Ruth were more dominant...period. I honestly don't know how I missed Kilgore...literally he was not even in my mind :oops: But it seems you are correct, I slightly overestimated the numbers - and now looking at them specifically I actually do think Dake is in the lead (1 less pin than Kilgore, but in 7 less matches). Though I think the pin margin will be closer by the end of the NCAAs, Ruth will catch up. He has the deepest weight of the 3 I believe, and has more techs and majors as well as less decisions than Dake and Kilgore, and has less matches than both (Kilgors has like 11 more)...if he can close the gap in the pins then these other stats could definitely nab him the Dominance criteria and make him very much in the race.
  3. So you are one of those people who thinks the criteria just doesn't matter? Got it. Learn the criteria and then realize why there have not been two "horrifically brutal" selections. Also, beating the defending Hodge winner has NOTHING at all to do with winner the award...not the slightest bit. If Dake wins a title and loses the Hodge, it will be because Kilgore or Ruth were more dominant...period. I honestly don't know how I missed Kilgore...literally he was not even in my mind :oops: But it seems you are correct, I slightly overestimated the numbers - and now looking at them specifically I actually do think Dake is in the lead (1 less pin than Kilgore, but in 7 less matches). Though I think the pin margin will be closer by the end of the NCAAs, Ruth will catch up. He has the deepest weight of the 3 I believe, and has more techs and majors as well as less decisions than Dake and Kilgore, and has less matches than both (Kilgors has like 11 more)...if he can close the gap in the pins then these other stats could definitely nab him the Dominance criteria and make him very much in the race.
  4. The Hodge "controversies" are anything but..and the continuing arguments are mind-numbing. Taylor was a clear winner over Dake last season (who happened to not even be the runner up - that was Ruth - so why this argument still pops up at all is mind-boggling), per the criteria. The same way that Ness was the winner over Varner (although maybe less clear cut...but not at all as close as people imagine), per the criteria. This "forget the criteria, the Hodge is the MVP!!" argument is just nonsense. The award is based on the criteria for the award...when you score according to the criteria the winner is clear - 99.9% of the time. This year, the race is down to 2, and that is clear. Taylor can not win unless both Dake and Ruth lose, neither of them win a title, and he wins the title beating Dake to do it...and even then - hed still not be a favorite for the award. For ALL of that to happen, I think hell may have to freeze over first. Bottom line is, Taylor is not in the Hodge discussion this season. Ruth looks poised to win it this season, per the criteria of course...with Dake close behind. Dake may be a 4 timer without winning the Hodge, but that is no travesty or injustice - just an odd occurance. PER THE CRITERIA - it is easy to see how that could conceivable happen. After all, the Hodge is not a career achievement award - so in reality him being a 4 timer has no real bearing on his chances - unless the main/previous criteria are too close to call ofcourse.
  5. Your a joke. If Dake scores and its 2-0, they might as well call it a wrap. Have you watched their previous matches or just trolling? No way Taylor could score on a reversal? Or ride him well again for a point? I would hope any elite wrestler turns it up in March. Most have said it would obviously benefit Dake, but by no means call it lights out. Dake, Taylor, the coaches, I'm sure would all agree. Likewise the other way around. I wouldn't even wast time responding to someone who doesn't know how to spell "ridiculous". I love how my simple counter point - that saying Taylor is out of the match (finished, its over, no chance to win at all, etc...) if he gives up the first TD is RIDICULOUS - has been warped into somehow arguing that he can/will beat Dake, etc, etc... They are two totally different arguments. As for this: I am just finished discussing this with you. You have to see the simple point I am making, yet you still try to argue your insane and absurd statement. By the way, that is yet anothe r deflection technique from you - restating your idea and flipping it the other way saying "If DT scored a td, Kyle could very well be out of it at well." is just as absurd. Let me make it simple : THE FIRST TD, NO MATTER WHO GETS IT, DOES NOT END THE MATCH. NEITHER GUY IS OUT OF THE MATCH IF THEY GIVE UP THE FIRST TD. It is a very, very simple idea. There is no "other side" that I cannot see. You made a very clear statement. You were wrong. The match simply is not over ater a single TD
  6. You'd do much better in friendly arguments if you would stop building a straw man for what I am saying. I never said anything like "one of these guys can put up points in droves [on eachother] like they have on others" - nothing like that at all. I referenced Taylor's scoring ability to illustrate just how ridiculous it really was when you said him trailing 2-0 after an early TD means the match is over. Speaking of the match being over if Taylor gives up a TD - kudos for manning up and sticking to your position finally - but it is still nonsensical and silly. Even if their next meeting ends a 2-0 win for Dake after he scores a TD in the first 5 seconds - your statement is STILL wrong. An opponent at this level is NEVER out of a match after giving up a single TD - especially if that wrestler you are talking about is on the level of David Taylor. Im sorry, but that is just an outrageous statement. If you don't yet see why then there is nothing more I can say....
  7. You can't be serious? He has had 0 TDs - so what. That doesn't mean he couldn't get one (two, three, etc) in the next 7+ mins they wrestle. You are putting way, way to much weight on the past in this specific instance. He has been in deep, multiple times. Has he finished, no. Does that mean he can't? Absolutely not. To say that because he hasn't scored a TD on Dake yet, the match would be over if he gives up a single TD - just leaves me speechless. Even if you are as anti-Taylor as it gets...that is just absurd to the highest possible degree. Is everybody losing their mind? For one, in theory he wouldn't even need to score a TD to close the 2-0 gap of giving up the first TD- so the match is far from over. Secondly, you are talking about one of the most prolific scorers in the history of D-1 wrestling...how in the world can he be given so little credit to say that a match is over is he trails by TWO POINTS!!!?? I mean honestly, stop it. Would he be at a disadvantage? For sure. A fairly big one given how great Dake's defensive wrestling is? Certainly. Is the match over if he gives up a TD? Not by a mile, if you say otherwise I am running out of adjectives to describe the absurdity of that opinion. TWO POINTS!! :shock:
  8. I wanted to make it very, very clear what I was calling ridiculous - and the following is it. You said, clear as day, that if Taylor gives up a TD to Dake, the match is over. That is absolutely, unarguably, unbelievably, absurdly ridiculous I cannot stress enough how outrageous and silly the statement you made was. You can attempt to spin it around anyway you want, but what you said is right there, quoted above - in black and white print - and it is absurd. This is your attempt to deflect and change what you said and what I was calling ridiculous...so stop it. I am not saying that their match being decided by a single TD is ridiculous - and I think you well know that isn't what I was saying. If not - then please refer back to the first part of this post and refresh yourself on what you actually said instead of what you are trying to spin it into...which was, one more time, RIDICULOUS
  9. The tilt can be attributed to Central Dauphin in general more so than to Peppelman specifically.
  10. I understand the point you made, and I agree generally speaking. But here you are making it sound a little bit too extreme and weak. He was wrestling the top competition in the top wrestling state in the country for 4 years (including when he was an underclassmen himself). Its not like he was just wrestling a bunch of "kids who can't defend themselves" - as if we are talking about pre-teen wrestling. PA is full of monsters and "manly" kids at the HS level - and he mowed through all of them. Your point still stands...but don't make it seem like his HS accomplishments are inflated in any way (I know that isnt your intent - but still)
  11. If he gives up a TD to Dake, the match will be over. The kid averages probably around 11 pts per match in his D1 career (this is a cold guess, but honestly it cant be too far off) and is an NCAA Champ and Hodge winner...but if he gives up the first td to Dake the match is already over...rightttttttt. :shock: Be serious...that is just silly and outrageous. No matter how good someone is (even Dake who is one of the greatest EVER) the match is not over after a single td - and certainly not when you are facing someone of Taylor's level. Please don't even respond - the ridiculousness of your statement can not be defended.
  12. +1 Definitely. But it is still a head-scratcher when you see a guy like Peppelman who was an absolute machine in HS (173-7, 3 State titles and 1 2nd Place, 3 Beast Titles, 4 Powerade titles, and 2 Super 32 titles), and in PA no less, having such a tough go in college.
  13. The honest truth of the matter is that he probably comes out not really fearing the ability of these guys to score on him. It is only natural when you are so much better than everybody you wrestle (save Kyle Dake) to be a bit lax in terms of thinking they can score on you. Everyone in D1 is a gamer though, and its good to see things like this to remind you of that! And I hope this isnt part of his blueprint to beat Dake...the match certainly wouldn't be over if you give him the first td - but you are definitely behind the 8-ball!
  14. Modern Pentathelon. I am still just stunned by that part :shock:
  15. That last 10-15 seconds after Cael signed off was awesome. Jay Mohr is the man.
  16. Unless I am missing something, the matches are not up on flo. As for the BTN thing, I do have a carrier that has the BTN (Comcast). But they arnt listed on BTN2GO!!!
  17. This argument has become so unintelligible at this point :shock: Maybe it is the lack of punctuation though, who knows!
  18. That is correct. Did I forget to mention that politics and horsetrading also plays a role in the seeding process? Regardless, conference record is supposed to play the major role in seeding. That is intended to prevent guys from forfeiting matches to try and preserve their seeding. WOW! Because that is what is happening in this situation? Stieber is ducking his Big 10 competition to preserve his seed? hahahahaha Your arguments in this thread have been ridiculous, I hope it is because you are extremely pro-Iowa/Ramos or extremely anti-Stieber...because if you are honestly and unbiasedly coming to these conclusions then you are just extremely out there. Stop focusing so much on the in-conference thing. Let it go. Stieber is the clear #1 seed - he is the undefeated defending Big 10 and NCAA champ at the weight - there is no basis to argue against it, ABSOLUTELY NONE, period.
  19. Missing part of the season does matter. Ramos is 6-0 in B1G duals, Stieber 3-0. By your logic one could skip all the B1G duals and still be seeded #1. You don't get rewarded for sitting on the bench. 1) Ramos 6-0 2) Stieber 3-0 3) Graff 7-1 4) Dardanes 4-2 5) Quiroga 4-0 6) Thomas 4-2 This argument may be valid if Big 10 duals were the sole criteria for seeding the tournament. They are not. By YOUR logic, Quiroga should be the 2 seed (ahead of Graff and Dardanes with losses, and he has more wins than undefeated Stieber). There is no legitimate argument to be made that would seed Ramos over Stieber, period. No matter how you try to bend things around - it is clear who the favorite is, in spite of the fact he missed part of the Big 10 schedule due to injury.
  20. As to the original question - Steiber has to be the #1 seed at BIGs, period. There is no argument to be had here. It is not like he only has one win over Ramos...he is 3-0. Missing part of this season does not matter, he is the favorite, and rightfully so. That being said, this is still on of the most anticipated matches this coming post season. Personally, I only put in behind Dake v. Taylor 3 (or 2 - or 2.5 - depending on if the AS match counts this week :D ). Either way you slice it, barring any injury or some unforeseen miracle of amazing wrestling by someone else, Ramos v. Steiber will be in the BIG finals regardless of seeds - and that will determine the seeds for Nationals - where it will again not matter, because they will again meet in the finals - regardless of the seeds determined by the BIGs. If this is morphing into a prediction thread, I favor Stieber. I still don't think Ramos can take him down, and that will prove to continue to be an issue. BIG Final Stieber wins 5-3. 2 TDs and 1 escape to 3 escapes for Ramos (fueled mostly by rage and blind hate :) ) NCAA Finals Stieber wins 4-1. 1 TD, 1 escape, and 1 RT point to 1 escape for Ramos. *TD comes in the 3rd period of a 1-1 match here!
  21. Awesome picture. It must suck to be the guy on the other end of it : /
  22. This is silly. He was not trying to hurt his opponent. He was not trying to embarrass him, he did nothing unsportsmanlike, nothing of the sort. He was trying to win, and dominate, as he should- period. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, egregious here on the part of Kyle Dake. He got frustrated with the kid shelling up and looked at the ref/coaches to try to point it out- so what, it happens. I'd also like to note that I do very much believe that the OP was referring to this specific match in order to illustrate his point overall. But the thing is, nothing that Dake did in this match is noteworthy.
  23. Wow. BRGuy, this may be one of the most ridiculous strings of comments I've seen from anyone on a topic. You are speaking as if Iowa proved that, even if the National Champion were decided in a dual format, then they would certainly win the title now that they have beaten Penn State in a very tight dual. That is just silly. Yes, they won the dual. If they wrestled again, possibly not in Carver, who is to say that one (or more) of those razor-thin swing matches doesn't go the other way? Or Conoway doesn't get pinned? Or Ruth gets a fall? Or QW gets a major? etc..etc..etc.. The fact is that in a dual format Iowa matches up very well with PSU, and they are quite close. Nobody argues this...but you take it to the complete other extreme and seem to think that now the are just better - always- period. That is nonsense. Other than that, you are just coming off so unbelievably ridiculous and bitter that it borders on insanity. For example, PSU had more opportunity to score bonus points than other teams the last two years at Nationals? Uhh, ok? Are you insinuating that the draw was somehow rigged? You earn your seeding throughout the season, individually. It has nothing to do with which team you are wrestling for. The seedings are determined, and pigtail matches are random. There is nothing biased or unfair about it, stop being ridiculous. The main point to shut down your nonsense is so simple. Duals are NOT how the National Champion is crowned, so let it go. If you are going to whine and complain about PSU having an unfair advantage, and they are not truely the best team in the Nation (even though they have won 2 in a row), etc, etc...you better go re-write the history books and investigate all the championships of Iowa/Okie St over the past 50 years. To sum up in a few words - JUST STOP IT.
  24. The main point I was making that you guys are both missing in this little quibble (which BTW, technically you both have valid arguments- Vak is right, the logic is faulty...but jam's assessment also holds legitimate weight in the fact that Telford has not beaten a ranked wrestler - so the Nelson v. Snyder comparison is not totally fair) is simply this: the majority of HWT matches are boring/sluggish/toss-ups. What I was trying to illustrate is simply that unless you are talking about some major top-tier guys (those above and beyond HWT's who were able to dominate lower ranked guys - the way the lower weights do - Steve Mocco always comes to my mind) a HWT match can go either way. In this case, no offense meant, Telford is not one of "those" HWT's. Is he a favorite? Yes. Is this technically a "toss-up"? No, not in the strictest sense of the word. All things considered though, it is not even close to being outrageous that Telford loses. Ergo my point from a few posts back..... Not all, no. But Telford is far from a heavy favorite here.
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