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davenowa

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  1. would have to agree with the Sen. on this one...if PA used this as guidance, it is too bad, as there are plenty of 120 pounders who might have a min. wt of 106 (and probably even a few 132's), but as with those upperweights, they are not going that low. would be like WalMart buying t-shirts and ordering 60% mediums because the general public's optimal weight is 150, but most folks are not within a stone's throw of that.
  2. some dual forfeits counts are misleading. Team A and B both have 106 pounders. Team A also has a 113, but Team B does not. Team A wins toss and requires Team B to send first at 106. Team B has a decent 106, but Team A has a state champ who has pinned his kid twice in tournaments. Team B forfeits at 106, bumping their kid up to 113. Team A has an awful 113, so the coach has to decide...do I want to double-forfeit at 106 and have my 106 bump to 113 and get 6, so Team A would be ahead 6-0 after 113, or do I have my great 6 take a forfeit win, and then have my 113 get pinned, leaving us 6-6 after 2 matches. So now Team A double-forfeits at 106. Team B then also decides to not send their 106 out at 113 because his attempt at ducking has failed, so now the box score shows forfeits at 106 and 113. Remember, if Team B had won the toss, and A had to send first, then the score would have been 6-6. As my following proposal does reduce some forfeits (and because I recall how much someone hated the idea), I once again suggest locked line ups. Eliminates the significance of a coin toss determining an outcome of a dual meet (which happens far more often than some would suggest) and reduces forfeits. Combined with matside weigh-ins, the coaches must submit a locked line-up just prior to intros and the anthem. Can't change any weight class after that. Can't swap or sub. Failure to send your submitted wrestler forfeits any right to bump up and duck.
  3. looks like PA caved in to pressure from a few light-weight fans, as their original plan for 12 was very well thought out and distributed, essentially combining the lower 4 into 3, the upper 4 into 3 keeping the middle 6, as almost all data shows the greatest number of forfeits at both ends, especially lights.
  4. seeing nothing about weight classes, so appears PA will pilot their 12 new weights. wonder if any other states will join them. https://www.nfhs.org/articles/2020-21-high-school-wrestling-rules-changes-address-weigh-in-procedures-hair-length-restrictions/ As the result of a concerted effort to accommodate the growing number of female wrestlers, the 2020-21 high school wrestling rules changes are headlined by significant adjustments to weigh-in protocol and appropriate hair length requirements. The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Wrestling Rules Committee met April 5-6 and recommended 11 rules changes to take effect next school year. In accordance with current health safety guidelines, the rules meeting was held in an online format. All rules revisions recommended by the Wrestling Rules Committee were approved by the NFHS Board of Directors. “These rule changes are some of the most prolific modifications in the history of high school wrestling,” said Elliot Hopkins, NFHS director of sports and student services and liaison to the Wrestling Rules Committee. “The rules committee made necessary, drastic changes to attract more young people to our sport without sacrificing the health and safety of the participants.” The weigh-in procedure was altered through a combination of changes to Rule 4, Section 5 (Weighing-In) of the Wrestling Rule Book. Following an amendment to the legal uniform laid out in Rule 4-1-1c, which now permits female wrestlers to wear a form-fitted compression shirt that completely covers their breasts in addition to a one-piece singlet and a suitable undergarment, Rule 4-5-7 was rewritten to require that a legal uniform be worn during weigh-in and that no additional weight allowance be granted. An additional clause prohibiting shoes and ear guards during weigh-in was also written into 4-5-7. Weighing-in with a legal uniform allowed the Committee to break down more gender barriers with subsequent changes to Rules 4-5-1, 4-5-2 and 4-5-4. Previously, weigh-ins consisted of shoulder-to-shoulder lineups of each contestant that: were separated by gender (4-5-2), took place a maximum of one hour prior to competition (4-5-1) and required supervision by a referee of each respective gender (4-5-4). With the institution of the legal uniform (one-piece singlet or two-piece), male and female wrestlers are now able to weigh-in together in the same lineup, allowing gender-specific language to be removed from all three rules. Additionally, the form-fitted compression shirt offers females a more suitable uniform for post-weigh-in skin checks, which are typically done by male officials. “The change to the weighing-in process is remarkably timely, as schools have struggled in the past to identify adult females to weigh-in the female wrestlers,” Hopkins said. “This action accommodates transgender children as well; it respects their rights and dignity and addresses any modesty concerns for any affected children. We anticipate that the entire weigh-in process will be expedited and more efficient.” Significant changes to the hair length rule (Rule 4-2-1) were also linked to the committee’s focus on inclusion. Previously, a wrestler’s hair could not “extend below the top of an ordinary shirt collar” in the back, below earlobe level on the sides or below the eyebrows in the front. Those confinements, along with the requirement that a hair cover be used for hair that exceeded said limitations, were deleted. Considerable support for this rule change from coaches and officials was generated by an initiative of the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association, which successfully experimented with relaxed hair restrictions this past winter. “Removing the hair-length rule is a monumental change,” Hopkins said. “It is important to embrace the current culture of young boys and girls who are expressing themselves through their appearance, making this the perfect opportunity to extend wrestling to young people who otherwise would not be attracted to our sport. While the hair-length restriction has been removed, the requirement that hair control devices/treatment items cannot be hard, abrasive or sharp remains. If a hair cover is used, it shall be attached to the ear guards. Additionally, the barring of oils, or greasy substances on or in the hair is still in effect.” Another modification to the wrestling uniform came through Rule 4-1-3. In order to curtail participants from intentionally lacing their shoes too loosely to cause a stoppage in the action and potentially thwart an opponent’s scoring opportunity, a technical violation will be assessed in any instance where a shoe comes off, and the injury clock will be started to correct the situation. This change is made under the assumption that a wrestler is, in fact, properly equipped to wrestle when the match begins, as a wrestling shoe that is properly laced and secured will not typically come off. Technical violations were the subject of change in Rule 7-3-1 as well. To avoid penalizing a participant twice for the same sequence of events, wording was added to 7-3-1 declaring that points will not be awarded to a wrestler whose opponent has fled the mat if that wrestler has already scored for a near-fall or takedown. Under Rule 8-1-4, a match will now automatically be stopped and restarted in the event a wrestler commits a fourth stalling violation. Previously, if the offender was called for a fourth stall of the match while in the defensive or neutral position, there was no guarantee his or her opponent would be awarded choice of position through a restart if the violation occurred during the third period. “This rule remedies that if the fourth stall occurs in the third period there might not be an opportunity to restart before the end of the match,” Hopkins said. “This rule change assures that the offending wrestler is held accountable and subsequent points are awarded to the opponent.” Based on the hair-length changes, Rule 5-29-1, which addresses unnecessary roughness, was edited to include “pulling an opponent’s hair” as an additional example of the offense. Finally, a new article was added to Rule 8-2 dealing with participant injuries. Rule 8-2-9 has been designed to discourage wrestlers from requesting injury time from the official as an attempt to stop an opponent from scoring. If the referee determines a wrestler would have scored had the injury time-out not taken place, the injured contestant will be charged an injury time-out and applicable points will be awarded to the non-injured party. According to the 2018-19 NFHS High School Athletics Participation Survey, wrestling is the seventh-most popular sport for boys with 247,441 participants in 10,843 schools. In addition, the number of female wrestlers increased by almost 5,000 participants in 2018-19, as 21,124 girls competed in 2,890 schools.
  5. thanks...I think they are pretty much sworn to secrecy like Jeopardy contestants until the public release, but just wasn't even sure it had happened. thanks again
  6. Just curious if anyone out there knows if the annual NFHS rules meeting scheduled for April 5-7 was held remotely or postponed? Rule changes, including any weight class adjustments, usually get released in early May, following the meeting, but not sure what the status is for 2020. thanks
  7. why stop there? for those fortunate enough to select an elite, private out-of-state high school based on athletic prowess, don't they just continue the same process when choosing a college? therefore, when Olympians are promoted and acknowledged, shouldn't they be identified as being from the state in which their college was located? sorry, but I must disagree with your philosophy, and would recognize an athlete's home state as the one in which he or she spent their developing years.
  8. while I disagree with the NFHS ruling, I don't think it is unclear, as it asks if a forfeit counts on a wrestler's record and the answer given is "no"....SITUATION 16: Does a forfeit count as a loss on a wrestler’s record? RULING: No, it is a forfeit when for any reason the opponent fails to appear for a match. (5-13).
  9. NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting as losses has caused an increase in semi-finalists forfeiting to kids they know they can't beat, coming back to take 3rd and leaving the day with an "undefeated"* record. needs to be addressed. see situation 16 https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-rules-interpretations-2019-20/
  10. need to be careful if any state looks to say that those matches don't count toward a win/loss record, as have seen coaches attempt to nullify a kid's loss in a tournament final on his record because post-match flagrant DQ got them booted. in a semi-related matter, I still say that NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting on an individual's loss record is counter-productive and encourages tournament ducking.
  11. as it appears not every state recognizes the NFHS 5-match rule, it is probably only a matter of time before the NFHS issues a medical advisory relating to total matches/competitions in a season. while some states have fairly strict weekly and season limits regarding the number of competitions and permissible amount of multi-team events, whereby it is extremely difficult to accumulate more than 40 matches in an entire season (excluding post-season), to hear of a wrestler missing 30 matches in a 2-3 week stretch will surely set off alarms at some level.
  12. 2 parts to this inquiry. 1. since HS does not recognize MFF like college, just checking to see how most HS state associations count forfeits in individually bracketed tournaments on a wrestler's won/loss record. 2019-20 is the first time I have seen NFHS address the topic, stating that forfeits do not count as losses on an individual's record (situation 16 at https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-rules-interpretations-2019-20/), but this contradicts what some states go into great detail to ensure consistency in records (ie NY). Assuming that most states count tourney forfeits (not "byes") as wins on an individual's record, which leads to.. 2nd question is forfeits in regards to wins, as there are some folks at our state association who are seeking to not count dual meet forfeit wins on an individual wrestler's record (attempting consistency with other sports), but I am unaware of any other states that take this approach, as it rewards ducking and penalizes elite wrestlers who earn an inordinate number of forfeits. granted, there are wrestlers at the extreme weights whose records may be overly padded with forfeits, but hopefully other seeding criteria prevails. thanks.
  13. unfortunately, one major flaw with the NFHS rule book and case book is that items that were previously identified as "points of emphasis" are not expounded upon in subsequent editions. in this case, the 2015-16 NFHS points of emphasis does in fact make the particular biting description shown above...but in the more recent printed editions, I do not see such a detailed explanation. it would be beneficial to everyone if prior items that were worthy of a POE were at least included in future editions, either in the rule book or the case book. as such, there are many officials who still believe that FM/DQ biting MUST be called if upper and lower marks are present, even following a hard crossface to the mouth area. while the presence of both upper and lower should be a qualifier when found on any other body part, a forearm involved in a crossface should be interpreted according to the NFHS point of 2015-16 emphasis.
  14. ok, agree to split the place points (but no "pin" points) and award both 3rd (I always order extra medals and give them both 3rd place medals anyway)
  15. while it would be nice to conduct a 16-man bracket through 3rd and 5th, unfortunately by allowing a 6th match, there would be more schools looking to run marathon multi-team duals with 7 teams wrestling 6 RR matches, lasting 10 hours. however, my biggest issue with the 5-match rule is regarding the awarding of the team points via forfeit to the wrestler who has not had 5 matches (over the wrestler who has had 5, per 1.4.3 detailed in casebook). often, the same wrestler who earns those pin points was beaten in the round of 16 by the opponent he then earns a forfeit over, as that kid hits 5 matches by winning/losing/winning/winning/winning (whereas the kid who lost in the 1st round often does not hit 5, unless a full 16, as he goes loss/bye/win/win/win). no points should be awarded, with both taking 4th.
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