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davenowa

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  1. matside weigh-ins would essentially do away with the need for current weight control programs, as having to wrestle immediately after weighing in would require participation at a healthy weight.
  2. I was looking at maintaining the 12 wts for post-season, allowing teams to enter a 2nd wrestler at any 2 of the 12 classes, in keeping with concept of 14 entries (as opposed to increasing to 14 wt classes for post-season)
  3. would any states hesitant to go to 12 be more amenable if post-season permitted 14 (so 2nd entrant in any 2 weight classes), similar to what some states already implement?
  4. my proposal of 7 pts for a forfeit is in conjunction with locked line-ups. Full explanation below, but I believe that if a wrestler is submitted to wrestle, and is then pulled (whether from the above-described 82 pounder mismatch, or from the more common ducking of competition), there should be team score consequences to minimize forfeits. with a locked line-up, it would be coach choice to enter the 82 pounder. however, if you list and then pull, would be 7 instead of 6. if the other team has a known power at 106, and you intend to forfeit that weight, you would not submit that kid on the line-up. however, if I am coach B and know that you would be so inclined, I might pencil in my back-up 106 and enter my 106 at 113. Matside Weigh-Ins & Locked Line-Ups (improves weight control protocol by discouraging excessive weight loss and reduces forfeits by locking in line-ups, as well as negating the overly significant impact of the coin toss on the outcome of a dual) 1. Increase all weight classes by 2 pounds to allow for uniforms, shoes, headgear etc. 2. Procedures will vary slightly based on dual meet (or multi dual) and individually bracketed tournaments 3. Dual Meet Procedure A. Require each coach to submit a locked-in line-up to the official 10 minutes prior to start of dual, just prior to any introductions or playing of National Anthem. Rationale: a coin toss should not have such an impact on a dual meet result, and forfeits and ducking of quality opponents will be reduced. B. Weigh in when reporting to table ready to wrestle (scale available prior, including during warm-ups, to check weight) C. For a dual-meet team tourney or multi dual, a wrestler can’t compete in more than 2 different weight classes for the event. Wrestler may compete in class for which qualifies OR may wrestle up 1 (one weight class) above which initial weigh in of the event allows. Ex: Wrestler A makes 132 for first dual. This allows him to wrestle 132 or 138 during event, provided he makes weight for subsequent rounds. If he does not make 132, he may still wrestle 138, but MAY NOT wrestle 145. Also, a wrestler may not “go down a weight class” during the course of the dual meet tourney (for instance, if over by a half pound for initial dual, can’t proceed to lose weight for subsequent rounds). D. Weigh ins will be held prior to each “odd” round of the dual tourney/multi meet. Scratch weight for round one, with one additional pound for round #3 and a second additional pound for round #5 (maximum number of matches in 1 day per NFHS). E. If wrestler who is listed on lineup for that dual does not make weight when called matside, it is a forfeit and that wrestler may not wrestle at a higher weight class in that same dual. That wrestler may not be replaced by a teammate--it is a forfeit. If a team lists a wrestler on their match line-up and proceeds to forfeit that weight class (either by failure to make weight or by electing to not wrestle), that forfeit will be worth 7 points.
  5. I'm fine with an even number, but would like to see that in conjunction with modified margin of victory team scoring which would eliminate the need for a tie-breaker in 99.7% of matches. Details as follows (please don't fear the decimal, as with computerized scoring, it would be simple for even the non-math folks): Team Scoring (rewards all points scored, increasing action for duration of the match) Implement “Margin of Victory” bonus. a. 3 pts remain for a win (including any OT win), plus 0.1 to 1.4 for MOV (for a “Margin of Victory from 1 pt to 14 pts), resulting in team pts of 3.0 to 4.4 for any decision, with TF still 5 (for MOV or match lead of 15 pts or more) and pin or default 6, but a forfeit at a weight class with a wrestler becomes 7 points (when accompanied by locked line-ups). b. For tournaments, simplify by eliminating advancement points and simply award team pts as shown (3.0 to 6.0 pts), with consi bracket points cut in half, maintaining placement points. Byes (when followed by a win) would be worth 3 points on championship side and 1.5 points in consi bracket.
  6. Will be interesting to see if there is any consensus. If the dual meet tie-breaker were addressed, perhaps more would opt for 12, but current format may cause 13 to be preferred. While I like the 12 weight plan, and agree with distribution through the lower and mids, would have rather seen a slight change in the upper weights, as the jump from 152 to 160 is 8, then 160 to 170 is 10, then a doubled increase to 20 pounds from 170 to 190. Probably too late, but based on distribution of athletes and weight class differences in terms of % of body weight, perhaps 160 could have been 162 (10 pounds jump), and 170 could have been 174 (12 pounds), making the next jump to 190 slightly less than 20 (16 pounds). https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2021/April/20/NFHS-release-new-weight-classes-for-girls-and-boys-with-options NFHS RELEASE: SEPARATE WEIGHT CLASSES FOR GIRLS; A CHOICE OF WEIGHT CLASSES ESTABLISHED IN HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLING By NFHS | April 20, 2021, 11:55 a.m. (ET) INDIANAPOLIS, IN (April 20, 2021) — States will have a choice of 12, 13 or 14 weight classes for both boys and girls competition in high school wrestling, effective with the 2023-24 season. This will be the first separate weight classes established for girls in high school wrestling, and it marks the first time that state associations will have a choice in the number of weight classes. The landmark change in weight classes was one of several significant revisions recommended by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Wrestling Rules Committee at its April 7-9 meeting held virtually this year. All recommendations were subsequently approved by the NFHS Board of Directors. States must select one of the three sets (12, 13 or 14) of weight classes for girls and one of the three sets (12, 13 or 14) for boys. States cannot adopt all three sets and cannot switch back and forth during the season. The following weight classes (in pounds) were established for girls competition (girls wrestling girls), effective July 1, 2023: 12 Weight Classes – 100, 107, 114, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 165, 185, 235. 13 Weight Classes – 100, 106, 112, 118, 124, 130, 136, 142, 148, 155, 170, 190, 235. 14 Weight Classes – 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 155, 170, 190, 235. The following weight classes (in pounds) were established for boys competition (boys wrestling boys or girls wrestling boys), effective July 1, 2023: 12 Weight Classes – 108, 116, 124, 131, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 190, 215, 285 13 Weight Classes – 107, 114, 121, 127, 133, 139, 145, 152, 160, 172, 189, 215, 285 14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285 “Previous surveys have indicated a varying number of weight classes that states wanted, so the committee attempted to meet the needs of as many people as possible,” said Elliot Hopkins, NFHS director of sports and student services and liaison to the Wrestling Rules Committee. “We have more and more state associations sponsoring girls wrestling and holding state championships for girls, so the committee believed it was time to establish uniform weight classifications for girls. “The recommended weights were established based upon more than 215,000 assessments from the National Wrestling Coaches Association. We are excited about these changes to weight classes in high school wrestling as we believe it will provide more opportunities for male and female student-athletes to be involved in this great sport.” In another major change affecting risk minimization, a separate 5-minute time-out has been established for the onsite health-care professional to evaluate potential head and neck injuries involving the cervical column (HNC) and/or nervous system. “There was a desire to establish a separate injury time-out that concerns the head and neck involving the cervical column and/or nervous system and not connect it with the existing 1½-minute injury time-outs or any other stoppage of the match,” Hopkins said. “This separate time-out is supported and covered in existing rules that give the referee the authority to observe the signs, symptoms and behaviors of a concussion and respond appropriately.” As a result of the separate HNC time-out, which takes effect next year, a number of other rules in the 2021-22 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book will be altered. The other significant change in high school wrestling rules for 2021-22 addresses the number of matches allowed in one day of competition. Currently, no wrestler shall represent the school in more than one weight class in any meet or wrestle in more than five matches, excluding forfeits, in any one day of competition. A change provides an exception to Rule 1-4-3 as follows: “No wrestler shall wrestle in more than six matches (championship or consolation), excluding forfeits, in any one day of a tournament conducted by the state high school association for qualification to the state high school championships or the specific state championships.” This change was enacted as a result of a successful experiment by the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association. Hopkins said that increasing the number of matches from five to six would allow postseason tournaments with more than eight competitors in a weight class to complete the tournament in one day. He said, in many cases, this change would eliminate the need for schools to stay overnight to participate in respective state qualifying tournaments and state championship events. “Since this exception would only allow six matches per day to be wrestled in the postseason qualifying tournament or state championship event, the impact on the total number of matches that an individual wrestles in an entire season would be minimal,” Hopkins said. “We do not want to extend this change to the regular season, and this exception would not come into play for the majority of participants.” Two other minor changes were made in the rules for next year. Rule 4-5-7 no longer will require low-cut socks to be worn as a part of the weigh-in procedure, and one change was made in Rule 5-1-1 dealing with choice of position during bad time. A complete listing of the wrestling rules changes will be available on the NFHS website at www.nfhs.org. Click on “Activities & Sports” at the top of the home page and select “Wrestling.” According to the most recent NFHS High School Athletics Participation Survey, wrestling is the seventh-most popular sport for boys with 247,441 participants in 10,843 schools. In addition, a total of 21,124 girls are involved in the sport in 2,890 schools. About the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) The NFHS, based in Indianapolis, Indiana, is the national leadership organization for high school sports and performing arts activities. Since 1920, the NFHS has led the development of education-based interscholastic sports and performing arts activities that help students succeed in their lives. The NFHS sets direction for the future by building awareness and support, improving the participation experience, establishing consistent standards and rules for competition, and helping those who oversee high school sports and activities. The NFHS writes playing rules for 17 sports for boys and girls at the high school level. Through its 50 member state associations and the District of Columbia, the NFHS reaches more than 19,500 high schools and 12 million participants in high school activity programs, including almost eight million in high school sports. As the recognized national authority on interscholastic activity programs, the NFHS conducts national meetings; sanctions interstate events; offers online publications and services for high school coaches and officials; sponsors professional organizations for high school coaches, officials, speech and debate coaches, and music adjudicators; serves as the national source for interscholastic coach training; and serves as a national information resource of interscholastic athletics and activities. For more information, visit the NFHS website at www.nfhs.org.
  7. would have to agree with the Sen. on this one...if PA used this as guidance, it is too bad, as there are plenty of 120 pounders who might have a min. wt of 106 (and probably even a few 132's), but as with those upperweights, they are not going that low. would be like WalMart buying t-shirts and ordering 60% mediums because the general public's optimal weight is 150, but most folks are not within a stone's throw of that.
  8. some dual forfeits counts are misleading. Team A and B both have 106 pounders. Team A also has a 113, but Team B does not. Team A wins toss and requires Team B to send first at 106. Team B has a decent 106, but Team A has a state champ who has pinned his kid twice in tournaments. Team B forfeits at 106, bumping their kid up to 113. Team A has an awful 113, so the coach has to decide...do I want to double-forfeit at 106 and have my 106 bump to 113 and get 6, so Team A would be ahead 6-0 after 113, or do I have my great 6 take a forfeit win, and then have my 113 get pinned, leaving us 6-6 after 2 matches. So now Team A double-forfeits at 106. Team B then also decides to not send their 106 out at 113 because his attempt at ducking has failed, so now the box score shows forfeits at 106 and 113. Remember, if Team B had won the toss, and A had to send first, then the score would have been 6-6. As my following proposal does reduce some forfeits (and because I recall how much someone hated the idea), I once again suggest locked line ups. Eliminates the significance of a coin toss determining an outcome of a dual meet (which happens far more often than some would suggest) and reduces forfeits. Combined with matside weigh-ins, the coaches must submit a locked line-up just prior to intros and the anthem. Can't change any weight class after that. Can't swap or sub. Failure to send your submitted wrestler forfeits any right to bump up and duck.
  9. looks like PA caved in to pressure from a few light-weight fans, as their original plan for 12 was very well thought out and distributed, essentially combining the lower 4 into 3, the upper 4 into 3 keeping the middle 6, as almost all data shows the greatest number of forfeits at both ends, especially lights.
  10. seeing nothing about weight classes, so appears PA will pilot their 12 new weights. wonder if any other states will join them. https://www.nfhs.org/articles/2020-21-high-school-wrestling-rules-changes-address-weigh-in-procedures-hair-length-restrictions/ As the result of a concerted effort to accommodate the growing number of female wrestlers, the 2020-21 high school wrestling rules changes are headlined by significant adjustments to weigh-in protocol and appropriate hair length requirements. The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Wrestling Rules Committee met April 5-6 and recommended 11 rules changes to take effect next school year. In accordance with current health safety guidelines, the rules meeting was held in an online format. All rules revisions recommended by the Wrestling Rules Committee were approved by the NFHS Board of Directors. “These rule changes are some of the most prolific modifications in the history of high school wrestling,” said Elliot Hopkins, NFHS director of sports and student services and liaison to the Wrestling Rules Committee. “The rules committee made necessary, drastic changes to attract more young people to our sport without sacrificing the health and safety of the participants.” The weigh-in procedure was altered through a combination of changes to Rule 4, Section 5 (Weighing-In) of the Wrestling Rule Book. Following an amendment to the legal uniform laid out in Rule 4-1-1c, which now permits female wrestlers to wear a form-fitted compression shirt that completely covers their breasts in addition to a one-piece singlet and a suitable undergarment, Rule 4-5-7 was rewritten to require that a legal uniform be worn during weigh-in and that no additional weight allowance be granted. An additional clause prohibiting shoes and ear guards during weigh-in was also written into 4-5-7. Weighing-in with a legal uniform allowed the Committee to break down more gender barriers with subsequent changes to Rules 4-5-1, 4-5-2 and 4-5-4. Previously, weigh-ins consisted of shoulder-to-shoulder lineups of each contestant that: were separated by gender (4-5-2), took place a maximum of one hour prior to competition (4-5-1) and required supervision by a referee of each respective gender (4-5-4). With the institution of the legal uniform (one-piece singlet or two-piece), male and female wrestlers are now able to weigh-in together in the same lineup, allowing gender-specific language to be removed from all three rules. Additionally, the form-fitted compression shirt offers females a more suitable uniform for post-weigh-in skin checks, which are typically done by male officials. “The change to the weighing-in process is remarkably timely, as schools have struggled in the past to identify adult females to weigh-in the female wrestlers,” Hopkins said. “This action accommodates transgender children as well; it respects their rights and dignity and addresses any modesty concerns for any affected children. We anticipate that the entire weigh-in process will be expedited and more efficient.” Significant changes to the hair length rule (Rule 4-2-1) were also linked to the committee’s focus on inclusion. Previously, a wrestler’s hair could not “extend below the top of an ordinary shirt collar” in the back, below earlobe level on the sides or below the eyebrows in the front. Those confinements, along with the requirement that a hair cover be used for hair that exceeded said limitations, were deleted. Considerable support for this rule change from coaches and officials was generated by an initiative of the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association, which successfully experimented with relaxed hair restrictions this past winter. “Removing the hair-length rule is a monumental change,” Hopkins said. “It is important to embrace the current culture of young boys and girls who are expressing themselves through their appearance, making this the perfect opportunity to extend wrestling to young people who otherwise would not be attracted to our sport. While the hair-length restriction has been removed, the requirement that hair control devices/treatment items cannot be hard, abrasive or sharp remains. If a hair cover is used, it shall be attached to the ear guards. Additionally, the barring of oils, or greasy substances on or in the hair is still in effect.” Another modification to the wrestling uniform came through Rule 4-1-3. In order to curtail participants from intentionally lacing their shoes too loosely to cause a stoppage in the action and potentially thwart an opponent’s scoring opportunity, a technical violation will be assessed in any instance where a shoe comes off, and the injury clock will be started to correct the situation. This change is made under the assumption that a wrestler is, in fact, properly equipped to wrestle when the match begins, as a wrestling shoe that is properly laced and secured will not typically come off. Technical violations were the subject of change in Rule 7-3-1 as well. To avoid penalizing a participant twice for the same sequence of events, wording was added to 7-3-1 declaring that points will not be awarded to a wrestler whose opponent has fled the mat if that wrestler has already scored for a near-fall or takedown. Under Rule 8-1-4, a match will now automatically be stopped and restarted in the event a wrestler commits a fourth stalling violation. Previously, if the offender was called for a fourth stall of the match while in the defensive or neutral position, there was no guarantee his or her opponent would be awarded choice of position through a restart if the violation occurred during the third period. “This rule remedies that if the fourth stall occurs in the third period there might not be an opportunity to restart before the end of the match,” Hopkins said. “This rule change assures that the offending wrestler is held accountable and subsequent points are awarded to the opponent.” Based on the hair-length changes, Rule 5-29-1, which addresses unnecessary roughness, was edited to include “pulling an opponent’s hair” as an additional example of the offense. Finally, a new article was added to Rule 8-2 dealing with participant injuries. Rule 8-2-9 has been designed to discourage wrestlers from requesting injury time from the official as an attempt to stop an opponent from scoring. If the referee determines a wrestler would have scored had the injury time-out not taken place, the injured contestant will be charged an injury time-out and applicable points will be awarded to the non-injured party. According to the 2018-19 NFHS High School Athletics Participation Survey, wrestling is the seventh-most popular sport for boys with 247,441 participants in 10,843 schools. In addition, the number of female wrestlers increased by almost 5,000 participants in 2018-19, as 21,124 girls competed in 2,890 schools.
  11. thanks...I think they are pretty much sworn to secrecy like Jeopardy contestants until the public release, but just wasn't even sure it had happened. thanks again
  12. Just curious if anyone out there knows if the annual NFHS rules meeting scheduled for April 5-7 was held remotely or postponed? Rule changes, including any weight class adjustments, usually get released in early May, following the meeting, but not sure what the status is for 2020. thanks
  13. why stop there? for those fortunate enough to select an elite, private out-of-state high school based on athletic prowess, don't they just continue the same process when choosing a college? therefore, when Olympians are promoted and acknowledged, shouldn't they be identified as being from the state in which their college was located? sorry, but I must disagree with your philosophy, and would recognize an athlete's home state as the one in which he or she spent their developing years.
  14. while I disagree with the NFHS ruling, I don't think it is unclear, as it asks if a forfeit counts on a wrestler's record and the answer given is "no"....SITUATION 16: Does a forfeit count as a loss on a wrestler’s record? RULING: No, it is a forfeit when for any reason the opponent fails to appear for a match. (5-13).
  15. NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting as losses has caused an increase in semi-finalists forfeiting to kids they know they can't beat, coming back to take 3rd and leaving the day with an "undefeated"* record. needs to be addressed. see situation 16 https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-rules-interpretations-2019-20/
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