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Everything posted by ironmonkey

  1. I would like to see an objective study done to compare scoring. NCAA tournament vs University free for instance. Which style has more points scored per match? How the points were scored? Were more points scored in the early rounds than the later in one style or the other? Which style had refs award points for more subjective calls like stalling or violations versus more objective ones like takedowns (I am aware these are somewhat subjective too). That sort of data would be far more convincing than just hearing over and over that freestyle creates action and folkstyle is boring because that narrative is not convincing. I am however open to seeing actual numbers. That sort of breakdown would make for a great topic. Unfortunately not great enough for me to put it together though...
  2. I wasn't cherry picking so much as disputing that the "vastly superior rule set" creates action. Freestyle has low scoring matches too. I am not even saying the match I referenced was boring. I was just saying the way the points were scored was horrible. The only thing worse would be if they settled it with rideouts. But for people that love the pushout, it is hard to understand how the other half cringes at watching that point awarded. And vice versa I am sure. Maybe you jump out of your seat and cheer. I don't recall many boring matches at the NCAAs. I enjoyed them all actually. There have been some boring matches obviously. But the last two years have been great I think. Not sure about post 114. I am sort clueless about navigating here. I just come to read some college wrestling fans' opinions since I watch most of it alone. That sort of goes along with what Jaroslav said above; we can bicker about styles but nobody wants to watch either with us anyway. They find them equally boring. I get to a Rutgers match or two with some old buddies each season, but the rest I watch solo despite the effort to drum up interest.
  3. 3 pushouts and a shotclock. That was all the scoring in one of the most antipated matches in freestyle recently.
  4. Exactly! Great example. I don't see why someone would remind you that this is a college wrestling forum and what he did after wrestling should be discussed elsewhere? Thanks for the info. Ended up reading about him and learning something new today.
  5. So if a former wrestler succeeds in other professions like teaching or politics, would you object to a thread celebrating their success?
  6. No need to worry. I wasn't offended at all. Nor were my family and friends. It is true that my comments didn't directly relate to what you were saying. However, considering where you are posting them, there is some relation worth noting. I am sure you realize that though. Had you posted your disdain for MMA on a forum about comic books, my response would not exist. I agree there is no valid opinion. There is just opinion. Having worked rehabbing dogs who have been abused in dog fighting, I do find the comparison to MMA pretty off the wall though.
  7. Does it actually work? The protective headgear used by some teammates back in the day who struggled with concussions seemed to do nothing. Have there been advances in protective headgear?
  8. Nor could I. That doesn't change the fact that the opinion you share with many wrestling fans about MMA continues to surprise me, and is similar to those I have heard about wrestling many times.
  9. I know countless former wrestlers limping around from knee injuries and/or unable to get a full range of motion from shoulders injuries. I had guys on my high school team with recurring concussion problems, and two on my college team. Chipped teeth, scarred up ears, and the run of the mill black eyes, bloody lips and bloody noses were never given a second thought. During my time I unfortunately saw a few wrestlers get carried out of matches on stretchers. One landed on his head and his body went limp during an attempted throw. The other drove on a double leg right out of bounds and into a gymnasium wall at a tournament. I saw a college teammate post on a mat return and his elbow collapsed and popped right through the skin. Nevermind the running in plastics and spitting in cups and the long terms impact cutting weight had on us. Wrestling isn't exactly chess. I get that MMA is far more dangerous than scholastic wrestling, but I find it somewhat surprising the amount of wrestling fans that trash MMA for "being too dangerous". You say it is a sick way to make a paycheck. if you asked some of my family and friends, they would say wrestling was a sick way to get your kicks.
  10. Doesn't unusual mean uncommon?
  11. I don't think they are. Rutgers had 2 AAs and 2 Blood Round losses in addition to a tougher schedule and a higher team ranking. Probably too similar for some fans liking, but how is Rider competing better? Why aren't these teams wrestling an annual dual anyway?
  12. Thanks! I have been wondering if he would stick around with the log jam of talent they have around him. Hope it works out for him.
  13. What is it? Because frankly I was surprised more people weren't critical of it.
  14. I agree. I think they are in good shape to have 3-4 AAs next season as well. I think getting some mix of guys like Gravina, Lewis, Dippery, Van Brill, Giraldo, and/or Delvechio AA status would do just as much if not more than an Ashnault finals appearance. Showing development is key and I think we are starting to see it. Not many would have picked Theobold to AA when he came in to the program (which was awesome btw), but many people picked Ashnault to no matter what Rutgers did with him.
  15. vet school is more exclusive than med school
  16. Since when is sport between two consenting adults a sin? You say the rules protect athletes from injury in wrestling but I saw plenty of injuries and pain being dealt out this weekend. The difference is in degrees. The goal in MMA is to win, not to harm the opponent. When you run a power half or a bar arm and stretch out your opponents labrum to no mans land, did you intend to hurt or turn him? I know some wrestlers I competed with who would say both, but I think the majority are just trying to turn their opponent and win the match. The same idea kinda works in MMA. I know plenty of former wrestlers who have permanent injuries to their joints. The rules don't protect you from permanent injury. The threat of a head injury in MMA though is an entirely different thing and much more likely, although I wonder if everyone is as concerned for Cox considering football.
  17. Maybe the companionship of his teammates? The thrill of the team race? These things are a big part of what I loved about college wrestling. I don't see why being super successful would make these any less satisfying for him. Maybe The building of his brand? The NCAA tournament on ESPN draws a lot of viewers relative to other wrestling events. I have no experience whatsoever in MMA except as a fan but from what I have followed, the injury rate there far exceeds wrestling in any style. A significant % don't even make it to their fights, getting hurt in training. I wonder what those that think folkstyle hurts freestyle performance think of jujitsu and training off your back for hours at a time.
  18. better or worse isn't the point. Either you have a strict definition for sportsmanship or you have a more liberal allowance for what sportsmanship includes. I personally think it includes shaking your opponents hand without facing away from him, or slapping it, or having the ref drag your arm to the opponent, and/or sprinting off the mat after a loss following any of the above actions. Excessive celebrations after winning **during** the handshake should be avoided. Anything else to me is fair play. I don't care about preprogrammed and rehearsed speeches or excessive displays of emotion before and after the handshake. Words can be carefully chosen and are not always genuine. Winning and losing are emotional. However, other vocal critics love the former and hate the later. So where are they on this display? I am not really calling out Hall at all. He was great (although I get the stalling argument). I am more calling out the fans that suggest Penn St (and/or every other team) are great sportsman and Iowa are thugs.
  19. Except it clearly mattered this weekend, and he took home a championship both as an individual and as a member of a team on national TV. You can't put monetary value on that type of experience and memory. He is also getting a college education at a nationally recognized university and building a network surrounded by very successful people. You make it sound like this experience is worthless. When David Taylor was asked his favorite memory about his time wrestling in the national tournament this weekend, he responded "winning as a team his senior year". I understand you would like to see these athletes better prepared for freestyle, but they are also getting prepared for life. I think Penn St is doing a pretty good job at that. Could they do equally well while also preparing these athletes for freestyle? Probably, but at the expense of college wrestling if suddenly their best guys go and pursue their own personal goals. It is still a team sport (kinda sorta). It really wouldn't be so much if the model you propose sticks. I would love to see a 2 season sport similar to track and field where they compete in both, but there are so many obstacles I don't think that will ever happen. That would be the best of both worlds for fans, athletes and the teams.
  20. wide open to a select few I should say. In other words, like 6 guys could easily slip in there depending on the day.
  21. Fair enough. I could see making an AA prediction, but 3rd though? Who do you have ahead of him if you don't mind my asking? 1st seems pretty obvious but who do you have taking second? because to me that looks wide open.
  22. Isn't that a little bold considering pretty much everyone in that weight returns?
  23. That would be horrible for college wrestling, although I get that you prefer freestyle.
  24. I don't mind it one bit, thought he wrestled great, and agree he should enjoy his moment in his way, although that pose isn't exactly projecting "fun and Jesus". Where are the critics though who have been so vocal about class and sportsmanship all season? or does that not apply in this case?
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