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MSU158

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Everything posted by MSU158

  1. Duals amongst the top teams are VERY matchup dependant. Iowa is heavily favored at 133 and 141. They are also solid favorites at 125, 157 and 285. PSU is heavily favored at 149, 165, 184 and 197. This dual basically comes down to who wins at 174. Iowa is VERY good at not giving up bonus in duals. With that said I would still say Taylor and Ruth get 3 bonus pts. Iowa should get 2 bonus between 133 and 141. If Brown wins I see the dual as 18-17 PSU. If Evans wins Iowa wins 20-15. Iowa may actually matchup best with PSU out of any team.
  2. You are wrong about Storley having a youth redshirt. He was 18 when he graduated high school, turned 19 his freshman year of college, and is now 20 as a sophomore. In Michigan he would absolutely have been too old by almost 3 months! What state did he first start school in? I did not realize that this is regulated by individual states. I thought there was a uniform federal requirement. The cutoff date for entry into kindergarten in Michigan is Dec 1. I looked through the US Department of Education and apparently 25 states, including North Dakota have an earlier cutoff date before or on Sept.2 So when I noticed his age he is nearly 3 months older than ANYONE in Michigan would be for his grade year. So if he was in Michigan or 17 other states he would have HAD to be held back a year or "Youth redshirted". Two states do not even have a cutoff date and 5 allow the local school district to decided if the child is age appropriate. Very surprising that this is not uniform throughout the country. I think you'd find even in Michigan it is the parents discretion. For example, I would expect many kids born in October will not start Kindergarten that year they turn 5. Many parents would hold a kid this age back for them to start the next year. Your statement that he is nearly 3 months older than ANYONE in Michigan would be for his grade is thus likely not correct. Also, seems like many in Michigan feel this way (Dec 1 cutoff is too late). http://news.yahoo.com/michigan-house-ap ... 00629.html I guess I shouldn't have used "ANYONE" since there are no absolutes but I actually had several friends born in November of the same year as me that were in my class. I have been 18 years removed from grade school and things may have loosened since, but when I was in school the deadline was strongly enforced. I had noone in my classes born earlier than December and asked quite a few friends and also my younger brothers if they remember anyone in their classes born earlier and other than a couple being held back a year noone remembers it happening.
  3. You are wrong about Storley having a youth redshirt. He was 18 when he graduated high school, turned 19 his freshman year of college, and is now 20 as a sophomore. In Michigan he would absolutely have been too old by almost 3 months! What state did he first start school in? I did not realize that this is regulated by individual states. I thought there was a uniform federal requirement. The cutoff date for entry into kindergarten in Michigan is Dec 1. I looked through the US Department of Education and apparently 25 states, including North Dakota have an earlier cutoff date before or on Sept.2 So when I noticed his age he is nearly 3 months older than ANYONE in Michigan would be for his grade year. So if he was in Michigan or 17 other states he would have HAD to be held back a year or "Youth redshirted". Two states do not even have a cutoff date and 5 allow the local school district to decided if the child is age appropriate. Very surprising that this is not uniform throughout the country.
  4. Thank you for all the responses. As a fan of Michigan products first and foremost this topic really reinforces my feeling that UofM is making a big mistake with not shirting their freshman. Especially Taylor Massa. It seems, which makes perfect sense, that all the best of the best that managed great careers struggled the most as true freshman. I really think Massa had the skillset coming out of high school to be a 4x AA multi-finalist. A year in the room with guys like Pritzlaff sure seemed like a perfect preparation to make that a reality. I am now worried he can get discouraged and go the way of Alex Tsirtsis.
  5. With all the talk about Dake not redshirting I would like to see how many 4x AA's there have been who did not redshirt. Did they do it wrestling 4 years in a row starting immediately after graduating High School without deferring a year or "Greyshirting"? In addition, did they do the youth redshirting? I am very impressed with Logan Storley coming out as a True Freshman and now as a True Sophomore. However, I noticed he is born in September of 1992. So he essentially did the youth redshirt. Does that tarnish anything? How about Megaludis? Does he fit all the criteria? Knowing how hard it is to walk into a DI room as a true freshman, to actually be one of the best in the Nation that quickly at 18 years of age amazes me.
  6. With the depth at 133 Graff sure seems likely to add to this number. Another is Ben Bennett. I would really like to see him make the finals in his last year but he is in meatgrinder of a weight. Anyone else currently out there wrestling who looks likely to 4x AA where they are yet to project into the finals?
  7. This is the rational thinking I was looking for. I did not start this thread to attack Brown as a wrestler. He may very well be the 3rd best at this weight. I simply do NOT see, with the current results we have for the top 8 at this weight, ANY reason for him to be ranked so high. It even further threw me when the #2 guy moves 5 spots for losing in OT and the number 3 stays the same after losing by pin. In all seriousness this wasn't really a Brown ranking thing to me as it was a WHOLE mess at 174.
  8. It sure would be a fun match to watch but it would have ZERO benefit to OSU. The way Oliver is scoring bonus at 149 OSU gets big pts at 149. It's also not worth pulling Kindig's redshirt to try to win at 149 still. In addition, St John has NOT been putting up bonus. Why risk a loss when you will get more pts between the 2 weights staying status quo? As a fan I would LOVE to see the match but NO WAY it happens....
  9. Not that this affects the rankings, as someone pointed out a loss is a loss...but I think you are severly misrepresenting this match up for anyone who may not have seen it. If my memory serves correctly, the score was 0-0 when the scramble/reversal/fall happened. Not taking anything away from Storley, he is a monster. But he is not far and away ahead of Brown...certainly not by fall. Also, not to mention, they are now 1-1 in their careers (Brown beat him at last years Scuffle). In NO way did I misrepresent ANYTHING. Storley pinned Brown. That DID happen. I didn't say Storley dominated Brown or he is head and shoulders better than Brown. I simply stated he was pinned and didn't move a spot. Brown is a very solid wrestler and I believe he will AA. But he has beaten NOONE to date to be ranked 3rd. I would put: 1. Perry 2. Storley 3. Evans (no issue with Kokesh here instead) 4. Kokesh 5. Heflin (AA last year with only loss OT to Evans) 6. Blanton (AA last year has 2 bad losses but beat Asper) 7. Asper (Could see him ahead of Blanton even with head to head since it is his only loss and he beat Blanton at All Star) 8. Brown
  10. This is the first time I have felt compelled to ask WHY? I understand rankings are very difficult to do and am nearly always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but the Intermat ranking in this case has me BAFFLED! Perry 1, Storley 2 makes perfect sense. Matt Brown at 3? Going into the week Heflin was 2. He gets beat by an undefeated 7th ranked Evans in OT. Evans only moves up one spot to 6 and Heflin drops to 7? Matt Brown gets PINNED by Storley and doesn't drop a spot? Kokesh dominates at Midlands his only loss of the season being in OT to Storley and he stays behind Brown at 4? Asper has a loss to Blanton currently ranked 8th who is behind Evans but the undefeated Evans at 6 stays behind Asper at 5? I don't want to be critical because I truly appreciate the hard work those in charge of the rankings do. However, this looks like either a diehard PSU fan did the rankings or it was slammed together super fast with limitted thought behind it. I would really like to hear a "rational" explanation of this because I simply can not wrap my mind around it.........
  11. He did graduate before Minkle's arrival so I don't see any loyalty issues stopping him from pushing Minkle out the door. The only real issue is what would get him to leave a very well established program to come to the mess that MSU currently is. Other than challenging his competitive spirit to try to bring his former school back to its former prestige, along with a lot of money, I don't see how it would benefit him to leave MISSOURI.
  12. Looks like Wirnsberger read my post last night and felt bad for his former coach(j/k). Lear didn't wrestle and they voided 174. Admittedly, it most likely wouldn't have been enough to win but if Lear won by Tech5 or better and McPeek avenged an early season 5-2 loss to Wolfhert MSU doesn't pull of the win.
  13. I have to concur. Something is wrong at Indiana and it has been for quite sometime. I like Coach Goldman as a person, but when you have a history of guys being better as freshman than they are seniors, something is most certainly wrong. Andrae Hernandez, All American as a sophomore, doesn't even make it to the NCAA's as a senior. Matt Coughlin All American as a freshman, has a losing record as a senior and doesn't make to to the NCAA's. Coincidences happen, but not at the level that these occurrences are happening at Indiana. There is no reason at all why Taylor Walsh and especially Adam Chalfant shouldn't be contending for All American status this season, and they might. Yet even already based on results, I think Chalfant has slipped a bit since last season. Walsh seems to be at about the same level. A talent like Ryan LeBlanc should be fairing better as well. Something needs to change at Indiana. The talent is there, that isn't the problem. You can concur all you want. Look at the numbers I posted. Tell me who MSU has had that actually got better over their 4 years in the same time frame. Other than the 3 CAN'T MISS recruits(2 Simmons and Gomez) of which none really seemed to get better while there, who else has AA'd? It is sad to say but I would be happy to take Indiana's last 10 years over what MSU has done.
  14. I can't believe you made me have to do this. Arguing over your Alma Mater being far worse is shameful. Easy to prove but still shameful. I went back the last 9 years leaving this year to make it an even 10 years. I don't think anyone would deny that is enough time to qualify as a significant trend. The last 9 years MSU has finished in the Big 10 TOURNAMENT: 10th-t, 11th, 7th, 11th, 11th, 11th, 8th, 8th and 10th. That is and average of 9.67th place. Indiana has finished: 10th-t, 10th, 8th, 9th, 8th, 5th,10th, 5th and 9th. That is and average of 8.22. So as bad as Indiana is they STILL average 1.45 spots higher than MSU. Now to even FURTHER show how bad the difference is I looked at both teams dual records against Big 10 opponents. MSU has gone 1-7, 2-8,2-6,1-7,0-8, 2-6, 2-6, 4-4 and 1-7. That is a total of 15-59. Of those matches MSU wrestled Indiana 7 times going 2-5 with one of the wins(LAST YEAR) being a 20-20 win by criteria. Indiana went 0-8,1-7, 5-3, 2-6-1, 2-6, 4-4, 2-6, 4-4 and 1-6. Total: 21-50-1 So as, admittedly, bad IU has been they have still SIGNIFICANTLY outperformed MSU the last 10 years. SO THERE!
  15. The head coach has to go. Today's wrestling has passed him by. The assistants are good guys and really not bad coaches but without new blood this program is going to stagnate into oblivion. The problem is they have fallen so far their only chance is to spend ALOT of money (HIGHLY UNLIKELY) and go after a young big name, like a Mark Perry or Pritzlaff, and throw big money at them while there is still a program to salvage. This may help them with recruiting but the other major thing you touched on is the facilities. Nearly ALL the top 10 programs have state of the art facilities. A new facility would be another costly endeavor for the University and although it could turn the program around they would most likely need a MUCH more wrestling friendly AD to pull it off. Lastly, establishing a Regional Training Center is a must. Michigan has done ALL of this, except they kept a top notch head coach and brought in the 2 best assistants money could buy. They are now recruiting off the charts and will be a powerhouse VERY soon. As sad as it is I wouldn't bet a dollar with 1,000,000 to 1 odds that ANY of this happens. Everything I have heard is that Minkle has his job until he decides to retire. I will always cheer for my Alma Mater but I have resigned myself that they are the doormats of the B1G.
  16. Which is why I ask. So Dake is top 3, but Taylor is NO WHERE NEAR TOP 20, when the first match with Dake went into an OT rideout, and 2nd match went to whoever you felt won. How is the margin that different? I'm just asking. It doesn't make a ton of sense. Usually the difference between the 2nd best and 100th best is DECISIVE. I am by no means a Taylor fan, but come on everyone drop the bias. Taylor is currently one of the most dominating wrestlers ANYONE has ever seen. He lost once as a freshman to an amazing talent with a HUGE chip on his shoulder. Without that motivation Taylor's first official collegiate loss would be a VERY close match to a 3 time NCAA champ. He is ABSOLUTELY a top 20 wrestler of ALL TIME. If he loses to Dake again, wrestling him very close, He would be a 3 time finalist with 1 championship with 1 year remaining. If he doesn't have Howe in his weightclass next year, barring an injury he would undoubtedly finish with 3 losses(losing to Dake in this years finals) as a 4 time finalist and 2x champ. That puts him top 10 in my book. The kid is REALLY good. WE just have been super lucky to see some amazing talent the last few years.
  17. At 9:45 Dake has the merkle locked and Taylor puts his hand on the mat while his foot is still in bounds. If they were neutral and went out of bounds in that position it would be a takedown. I do not see why it wouldn't be a reversal. It was close but it was NOT the wrong call. The escape with 2 secs left was a VERY close call but Dake was still on his leg and Taylor bellied down on top of him. A judgement call but not sure there was clear separation to warrant an escape call. Great match but calling this a screw job has to make what happened to Oliver last year straight up cheating. I simply could not even compare the 2.
  18. The best way to say it, so as not to allow any further confusion, is Jordan is a true freshman who is currently Redshirting. I wish I could use the above sentence for Taylor Massa, but alas, Michigan felt it was best to put their best out at each weight. Their true freshmen are taking some major lumps as a result.
  19. According to CMU's facebook page, Bennett won OW. Yes before SHP signed off he confirmed Bennett won MOW and Brascetta won Champ of Champs(voted by the 10 2012 champs). Kokesh scored the most tournament pts, Mangrum had the fastest fall and Beazely had the most falls in the shortest time.
  20. The best way to do this argument is a mixture of SHP's tournament rankings with some optmistic (yet realistic) calculations. Remember each team is figured with its ideal lineup and everyone HEALTHY> OKSTATE should get 0 at 125(dnq), 6 at 133 (8th place), 1 at 141(1-2), 25 at 149(1st), 6 at 157(8th or r12 with a little bonus), 18 at 165 (3rd), 25 at 174 (1st), 6 at 184(8th or r12 with a little bonus), 8 at 197 (7th) and 18 at 285 (3rd). Anywhere someone may place a little lower could easily be offset were someone could place a little higher. SO realistically this puts OKSTATE at 113. Minnesota should get 11 at 125(6th), 15 at 133 (4th), 4 at 141(r12-r16), 22 at 149(2nd), 2 at 157(2-2), 6 at 165(8th-r12), 15 @ 174(4th), 13 at 184 (5th), 6 at 197 (8th-r12) and 23 at 285 (1st). This puts MINNESOTA at 117. IOWA should get 27 at 125(1st), 23 at 133(2nd), 6 at 141(8th-r12), 1 at 149(1-2), 26 at 157(1st), 0 at 165, 11 at 174(6th), 9 at 184(7th), 0 at 197, and 14 at 285(6th). This puts IOWA at 117. I would say the above 3 are DAMN NEAR EVEN. Problem is PSU is still a solid 8-12 or so ahead. PSU should get 18 at 125(3rd scored 18 taking 2nd last year), 0 at 133, 0 at 141, 12 at 149(5th), 13 at 157(4th), 25 at 165(2nd), 12 at 174(5th), 27 at 184(1st), 16 at 197(3rd) and 2 at 285(2-2). This puts PSU at 125. If you look at what each guy did last year and how they sit in their weight this year, Iowa and Minny sit a tad closer to PSU than OKSTATE does but PSU still sits in the driver's seat.
  21. People keep saying Dake is a very defensive wrestler WITHOUT pointing out his best defensive attribute. COUNTER WRESTLING. I agree that Taylor's best chance to beat him is to open up and get the first takedown. However, IF he gets it he HAS to shut back down and force Dake to come to him. Opening up on Dake ALL match would be a HUGE mistake. Also, using losses from 2 years ago when Dake was OBVIOUSLY having weight management issues as a blueprint is a mistake. Taylor is good enough to beat Dake, but he has less room for error than Dake does. The Taylor faithful seem to take it as a given that if he tries to takedown Dake he will succeed. I respect the dedication of the PSU/Taylor fans and, since I really have no dog in the fight, wish you the best of luck. I do, however, STRICTLY advise you not bet your house on the outcome.
  22. Not going to argue that winning the first is the hardest, because it is but McD won as a freshman and then his competition get much better. Actually his freshman year 125 was stacked. However, injuries held back Escobedo and especially Nickerson and McDonough was able to get to the finals without hitting either. I would say that was the deepest bracket of the 3 Nationals he has participated in.
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