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MSU158

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  1. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from stp in All-Americans who were only good at Neutral   
    This is a testament to "relativity". 
    Is this a question based on "AA's that were only good at neutral" compared ONLY to other AA's or compared to the field at their weight during that season?  Or just AA's, period?
    Simply put, even guys like Micah Jordan were more than good on bottom, except against the top competition and mainly had issues with guys that pretty much decimated EVERYONE from the top position.  Hell, Micah even turned guys from top with 7 falls his senior year and even tilta-whirled a very solid Jared Prince like he was a carousel.
    As good as the neutral wrestling in DI is, what REALLY separates it from High School, let alone any of the "lower" College divisions, is mat wrestling.  What a spectator sees as a weakness, hence this thread, is actually more of a testament to how good the average DI guy is and how freaky good a guy like Retherford was.
  2. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from TexRef in Matches that seemed destined, but never happened?   
    1994 Kolat vs. Jaworski
     
    Kolat lost to Babak Mohammadi in the semis in OT....
  3. Haha
    MSU158 got a reaction from Plasmodium in All-Americans who were only good at Neutral   
    Everyone?  Other than Lizak, whom he "gassed from bottom", who else rode him?  Not Suriano, not Dance, not Piccininni.  The only real issue was the brainfart in not picking bottom against Cruz, which probably helps make some misremember Gilman being ridden more often.........
  4. Like
    MSU158 reacted to BlueWolverine in Michigan   
    I've seen this as a projected lineup and think it's probably their best bet. I think there's some questions still about where Micic and Myles Amine go, but I'd kind of be surprised if this wasn't it.
    125 - Medley / McHenry
    133 - Micic
    141 - Silva
    149 - Storr
    157 - Lewan
    165 - C. Amine
    174 - Massa
    184 - M. Amine
    197 - Embree / Davison
    Hwt - Parris
  5. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from wrestleFan12 in Would you go to dual held today?   
    Yeah, if it was just me I had to worry about,  I would probably go. However, I would have to worry about EVERY other person attending and inevitably risking exposing my family, considering it is a 100% guarantee that a large enough portion of those going would not follow any of the rules put in place to protect everyone. 
    Inarguably, people recently exposed will knowingly still go and I wouldn’t be surprised if people that have it would still go.  Look at Wisconsin as soon as their Supreme Court overruled the order. People raced to the bar and social distancing was an afterthought. 
    I think we should get into the heart of the summer and see if the heat knocks this thing out for the time being. If it does, slowly let sports start back up with limited attendance. Then phase it back in if the numbers stay down. Otherwise, why did we do ANY of this in the first place????
  6. Like
    MSU158 reacted to Gantry in Best Wrestlers in Cornell History   
    I think people are too quick to dismiss senior year Garrett - that dude was an animal.  Undefeated, pinned the defending champ in 21 seconds in the NCAA semis and by 5 earlier in the year.  He was really really good and that version who wasn't cutting so much weight could hang with Travis Lee...
  7. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Jaroslav Hasek in Why is Echemendia the next big thing?   
    Solid transition into a shameless plug!  I like it!
  8. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from ResiliteMarine in Kemerer gets 6th year   
    PSU is still going to be very hard to beat and Cornell could prove to be very tough as well. 
    PSU could go:
    125-Howard
    133-RBY
    141-Lee
    149-Verk
    157-Berge
    165-Manville/Lee
    174-Starocci
    184-Brooks
    197-Beard
    285-Kerkvliet
     
    Cornell: 4 possible finalists in Vito, Yianni, Dean and Darmstadt.  Ramirez and Foca have AA potential  
    125-Vito/Lajoie
    133-Wilson/Vito
    141-Yianni/Moore
    149-Hunter
    157-Santoro/Yapoujian
    165-Ramirez
    174-Foca
     184-Dean
    197-Darmstadt
    285-Fernandes/Cardenas
     
  9. Haha
    MSU158 got a reaction from aknipp in Brands vs Kelber   
    Kelber was actually an Iowa guy taking 2nd as a freshman with 3 losses and then went undefeated his last 3 years winning 3 state titles. One of those was over Tom Brands in 1985.  
    He wasn’t an easy out for Terry the year before, losing to Terry in the 1990 NCAA Finals 3-2. 
  10. Thanks
    MSU158 got a reaction from Peso in Kemerer gets 6th year   
    PSU is still going to be very hard to beat and Cornell could prove to be very tough as well. 
    PSU could go:
    125-Howard
    133-RBY
    141-Lee
    149-Verk
    157-Berge
    165-Manville/Lee
    174-Starocci
    184-Brooks
    197-Beard
    285-Kerkvliet
     
    Cornell: 4 possible finalists in Vito, Yianni, Dean and Darmstadt.  Ramirez and Foca have AA potential  
    125-Vito/Lajoie
    133-Wilson/Vito
    141-Yianni/Moore
    149-Hunter
    157-Santoro/Yapoujian
    165-Ramirez
    174-Foca
     184-Dean
    197-Darmstadt
    285-Fernandes/Cardenas
     
  11. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Perry in Kemerer gets 6th year   
    PSU is still going to be very hard to beat and Cornell could prove to be very tough as well. 
    PSU could go:
    125-Howard
    133-RBY
    141-Lee
    149-Verk
    157-Berge
    165-Manville/Lee
    174-Starocci
    184-Brooks
    197-Beard
    285-Kerkvliet
     
    Cornell: 4 possible finalists in Vito, Yianni, Dean and Darmstadt.  Ramirez and Foca have AA potential  
    125-Vito/Lajoie
    133-Wilson/Vito
    141-Yianni/Moore
    149-Hunter
    157-Santoro/Yapoujian
    165-Ramirez
    174-Foca
     184-Dean
    197-Darmstadt
    285-Fernandes/Cardenas
     
  12. Like
    MSU158 reacted to boconnell in '11 Burroughs v '13 Dake - analysis without the drama   
    It's impossible for most people to look back at Burroughs in college without looking at what he did in Freestyle (shortly after and all the way until today).  Folkstyle wrestling is not freestyle wrestling.  There are hundreds of examples of this.  Burroughs is made for freestyle wrestling and became one of the best Americans and maybe the 10 best humans at freestyle wrestling in the history of the world.  That doesn't mean college Burroughs was better at Folkstyle wrestling than college Burroughs actually was.  That Burroughs could absolutely be slowed down and frustrated by tactical wrestling/stalling and top wrestling.  Tyler Caldwell was less than 30 seconds away from beating him at the conference tournament and gave up a reversal instead of an escape.  In that match Burroughs was the better wrestler by about 5000% but got dragged out of his match.  2 weeks later he avoided that and majored him.  But pretending he was world champion Burroughs in March of 2011 is forgetting he wasn't and he was competing in a different sport.
  13. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Ohio Elite in '11 Burroughs v '13 Dake - analysis without the drama   
    Folkstyle, neutral defense is CONSIDERABLY different than Free.  Just ask Askren.  Dake's defense wasn't nearly as funky as Askren's but he still was able to use the full range of motion, allowing exposure without penalty.  There is a reason Dake was only taken down 2x's in his last 3 seasons, with one of those being to World Champ Taylor out of 3 matches.
    Could Burroughs beat him?  Absolutely.  But, using Freestyle metrics is folly.  Dake's defense was the best of the best in Folk in 2013.  If it took Taylor 3 matches to get a takedown, it is pretty damn likely that he can stop Burroughs from getting 1 in a single match.  It is even moreso, that he can stop Burroughs from the 2 or more he would probably need to win.
  14. Like
    MSU158 reacted to Gantry in "Sorry about your tissues, bro"   
    Certainly not trying to take a side in who would win or how the match would go.   Have no idea in that regard, would love to watch though.
  15. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Fletcher in '11 Burroughs v '13 Dake - analysis without the drama   
    Folkstyle, neutral defense is CONSIDERABLY different than Free.  Just ask Askren.  Dake's defense wasn't nearly as funky as Askren's but he still was able to use the full range of motion, allowing exposure without penalty.  There is a reason Dake was only taken down 2x's in his last 3 seasons, with one of those being to World Champ Taylor out of 3 matches.
    Could Burroughs beat him?  Absolutely.  But, using Freestyle metrics is folly.  Dake's defense was the best of the best in Folk in 2013.  If it took Taylor 3 matches to get a takedown, it is pretty damn likely that he can stop Burroughs from getting 1 in a single match.  It is even moreso, that he can stop Burroughs from the 2 or more he would probably need to win.
  16. Like
    MSU158 reacted to LJB in "Sorry about your tissues, bro"   
    to be fair, the one time they wrestled on an "even" day, JB won in a match where dake scored twice as many offensive points, JB scored no takedowns... punched dake repeatedly in the face enough to bloody him up and rake out his contact, and danny put dake on the clock twice in the second period... 
    it was shameful for JB not to get cautioned at all for those hands to the face...
  17. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Relentless125 in Does anybody honestly believe Zain could hang with Metcalf   
    There is a strong argument that the quality of competition for Retherford was considerably less. Remember, a 15 seeded Perry made the finals Retherfords last season. He wasn’t remotely a Jenkins, Caldwell or Palmer.  Neither was Mayes or Sorenson for that matter  
    Retherford was awesome and I would have a hard time picking Metcalf, even though I am a huge fan. But, Metcalf was extremely dominant as well. 
  18. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Fletcher in Finally! Hendricks vs Churella 2006 NCAA Final at 165   
    I have to agree and I am a state of Michigan guy, even when they wrestle for UofM. 
    1.) I have no issue with the non fall call. Nearly every time a cradle is locked up the call takes some time since it is often hard to find an angle to verify both shoulders are flat. This is especially so since the position came from defending a single leg and the ref wasn’t going to immediately be in position to see and call the fall. 
    2.). Churella wrestled super defensively and Hendricks was getting to his legs at will. I can’t blame the ref for getting caught up in that and being quite liberal with the takedown calls. Still, I would say 1 or 2 of those probably should have been called fleeing the mat instead of a takedown. 
  19. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from TobusRex in Does anybody honestly believe Zain could hang with Metcalf   
    Zain was legit. As I said before, I would have a hard time picking Metcalf over him. However, take some time and look at their respective brackets. If you closely followed the weights during those times, I don’t see how you can’t tell that Zain’s competition simply pales in comparison. 
    For an example, take Brandon’s Sorensen. He was probably the best wrestler those 3 seasons. Do you really see him doing better, or even as well, in the 08-10 brackets?  
    For the record, I don’t think you are off with your opinion of Retherford. In folkstyle, he was every bit as good as you say. However, so was Metcalf.  
    I absolutely believe Metcalf single handedly re-focused most DI teams(at least the high level guys) back to super high level conditioning.  I think there was a stretch where the focus was more on technique prior to him hitting the scene.
    I think this is especially true of Palmer. Watch him his senior season vs. his prior seasons. He was every bit as good as the top guys every season, but he faded late. His senior season, all of a sudden,  his gas tank didn’t falter and he finally squeezed a match from Metcalf!
  20. Like
    MSU158 reacted to whaletail in All 2000s All-Star Team   
    You really don't think Askren improved significantly over his last two years?
    Considering how late he developed (IIRC, his redshirt year wasn't even that special), it seems unlikely he stagnated so quickly. 
  21. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from TobusRex in Will other teams be dropped now?   
    Liability is the issue here, first and foremost. If social distancing is still being called for there is NO WAY football is played. Even if you barebones the teams, staff and officials, you will have roughly 100 people absolutely susceptible to exposure from 1, let alone multiple, infected people. 
    1 lawsuit could cost them more than 1 lost season. It sucks, but this situation is going to have long lasting effects on everyone!
  22. Like
    MSU158 reacted to Class in Spencer Lee and Anthony Robles   
    MSU well said on his senior year and those echo my thoughts as well.  He really reached a new level and his progression from Jr. to Sr. was really remarkable.
    Regarding his freestyle aspirations the rule set at the time was not conducive to his disability.  if you recall this was the 3 period best of 2 wins era and the tie-breaker was starting with your opponents leg, an obvious (and perhaps totally impossible) disadvantage for Robles.
  23. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from Class in Spencer Lee and Anthony Robles   
    Senior year Robles May actually be the best 118/125 1 year version in DI wrestling. His style made him almost impossible to take down. You couldn’t ride him and his tilt was damn near unstoppable. 
    I am a big fan of Lee, but I don’t know if there is a 125 I would pick against Robles. I would definitely say Lee has as good of a chance as anyone, but I wouldn’t bet anything serious against Robles. His senior year, he was just that good!
  24. Like
    MSU158 got a reaction from jon in Winter sports denied extra year of eligibility   
    But, the way wrestling is structured, it can be argued that they truly did NOT get their season. In fact, this year was a big example of the NCAA Tournament being basically all that matters with so many top wrestlers wresting so few matches.
      Hell, if not for the RPI mandatory match limit, many top guys wouldn’t have even had 15 matches after their conference championships.  This was especially true of Iowa and PSU’s schedule. 
    I am not saying that they definitively deserve a full season, I would advocate for 1 semester, but I do believe the qualifying wrestlers have as strong of an argument as possible out of every sport eligible. So much is decided by that last tournament for individual status, while a sport like basketball picks its AA’s The same way they would regardless. 
    I said earlier that it was too much of a logistical nightmare for it too happen, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it should have. 
  25. Like
    MSU158 reacted to Mokoma in NCAA Finals   
    I will take Taylor.  ;)
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