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TBar1977

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Everything posted by TBar1977

  1. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    This is rich. You and Lurker thinking the reputation of Cornell University or Rob Koll can be besmirched by anything posted here at themat.com, lest of all the phrase lawyer up. And either of you thinking you need defend Cornell or Koll's reputation from use of such a common phrase. I have news for you two. The reputation of the discourse here on this board would need rise exponentially to equal the position of the silt at the bottom of Fall Creek Falls. Here is how this board is most likely to be described elsewhere on the www.
  2. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    I engaged you for multiple pages yesterday and that was enough. It was especially enough when you claimed you were done with it. I never thought you would simply walk away from it because you are hard headed about these things. The only claim I made yesterday, which would have died on the spot if you hadn't decided to fight so hard, is that Koll had lawyered up. You took offense to the term and decided to fight it, why I have no idea. People take shots on this board at all things PSU every day. Don't get all huffy when shots go the other way.
  3. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Congrats, ugarte. You figured out in 5 minutes what Lurker knows but just can't seem to handle anyone saying here.
  4. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Felicia??? Too funny. Well, since we are done here now and can't agree. That's fine with me.
  5. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Lurker did this one. He tried to suggest that the idea Koll had lawyered up was misleading. Sorry, its not and I have enjoyed using Koll's own words to make this point.
  6. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    No, there is more evidence of lawyers. Koll stated his intention to "go in there with representation" to augment his 18 page appeal, which is almost assuredly written by lawyers because, as Koll stated "I (Koll) don't speak legalese and I certainly don't write it". I am not even going down your rabbit hole argument that implies since I can't prove he has followed thru on his clearly stated intentions thus far that I can't show he has lawyered up. I take the man at his word.
  7. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Now we are getting somewhere. You agree. Koll lawyered up.
  8. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    I'll play along with this one, even though it has no bearing on whether Koll lawyered up. Would Cael get counsel? Consider this. Two years ago David Taylor lost a very controversial match to J'Den Cox. The issue was the condition of the wrestling mat. Cael could have appealed. Did he? No, he did not. The fact pattern is not identical, but the situation re: controversy in how the final X match played out is. Koll lawyered up, Cael did not. This is all you can know, yet you state as if it is certain Cael would in fact go out and get counsel. The fact is, given a very similar result he did not do any of this. That is a fact.
  9. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    The ruling or hearing hasn't been reported on, so we only know what Koll intended to do as he prepared for and entered into any appeal hearing. This included contacting lawyers and "going in there" with representation, meaning lawyers. He stated he was filing with multiple higher levels. Why are you even fighting what is so patently obvious? Koll has lawyers involved on his/Yianni's behalf. That is obvious. Btw, I tried looking for something else but can't find it, so I assume you'll accuse me of making this up to. I recall a mention, maybe from Yianni maybe from someone else a bit about "Athlete's Court". I took this to mean the Court of Appeal for Sport, but perhaps it could be something else. I think we will all find out eventually what happened and I am content with my point of view so far.
  10. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    This has nothing to do with Koll's actions. Not analogous at all. Let's just stick with what Koll did. According to Koll himself, he filed an appeal to all of the above: USA Wrestling, The USOC, he spoke to the USOC Ombudsman seeking advice on how to file that particular appeal for relief, he said he would file with "the UWW, whoever that is" (his choice of phrase). He spoke of lawyers. He said "you gotta do what you gotta do" . He said it would be naive to go in there without representation. Those are all Koll's words. He chose them carefully. So Koll lawyered up. You trying to minimize this doesn't change anything, and your crazy analogies don't help your case either. Having other Cornell or Yianni fans come into the argument to tell me he didn't lawyer up is less persuasive than Koll's own words. Lurker, I believe in facts and evidence, and they state clearly that Koll "lawyered up".
  11. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Firstly, you too have defended Koll at every turn in the road, so forgive me if I don't find your support of Lurker as the leader in this debate very compelling. And I bring up the Tan fellow not because he himself sheds light on anything, but because of how duped a significant number of Cornell students were in spite of significant evidence he was guilty as sin. Your bringing in hypotheticals isn't helping you make any case at all. The only question for me was whether Koll lawyered up, which he most certainly did LAWYER UP.
  12. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    I think it is 10x more likely that such an 18 page document exists than that Koll has not consulted with lawyers. One, when you make any legal argument you start to think of things to bolster your case, and your documents start to expand. That's just the nature of argument. Two, he stated he was not going in there without representation. I am on solid ground here whether you agree or not.
  13. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    So since I was the only mention of it, you thought I just made it up? Lol. I got it from Christian Pyles at the 34 minute mark on FRL 389. This is the episode where they smack Kyle Dake around for the first 30 minutes, then transition to Yianni-Zain. Witness Pyles remarks at about the 34 minute mark. 18 pages. https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6525141-frl-389-how-kyle-dake-is-taking-advantage-of-the-system You can believe what you want. You heard him talk about lawyers. You heard him mention that to go in there without representation would be naive. That you gotta do what you gotta do. You still won't believe it. Now the 4 page document has expanded to 18 pages and you don't think lawyers wrote that either. I guess a Cornell "associate" who is a member of the bar could walk up to you and acknowledge it and you'd still deny it. The Charlie Tan Denial of Fact Pattern Effect on full display here.
  14. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    One, see the post above for the broad use of the phrase "lawyer up". Two, he stated as fact he was not going in there without representation and to do so would be naive. You are clearly missing some things here. "I'm not a lawyer, my brother is one. I despise the profession, but at the same time its what you gotta do. If you go in and you think you are going to handle it by yourself then you are naive". EDIT: Btw, you asked where I got the 18 pages in an earlier post. It wasn't the interview with Dernlan, because at that time he spoke of 4 pages. The 18 pages comes from something more recent. I can't find it easily, but assure you that number is not made of whole cloth nor arbitrarily made up.
  15. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Sorry, but the phrase "lawyer up" exists well beyond the criminal defense world. From yourdictionary.com. lawyer-up Verb (third-person singular simple present lawyers up, present participle lawyering up, simple past and past participle lawyered up) (intransitive, chiefly US, informal) To exercise one's right to legal representation, especially on the occasion of refusing to answer law-enforcement officials' questions without the presence of such legal representation. Lawyer up, delete Facebook, hit the gym. (intransitive, chiefly US, informal, business) To conduct matters in accord with legal formalities or so as to avoid legal risk. Whenever we do business with those guys, we lawyer up to protect ourselves. (informal, business) To arrange in a way reflecting legal advice. By the time we finished lawyering up the agreement, we didn't want to sign it. https://www.yourdictionary.com/lawyer-up
  16. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    My reaction to your post wasn't because of your inability to recall that Koll has indeed (lawyered up) mentioned the word lawyer, it is because you claimed I misrepresented his comments when I clearly did not. And, I included more of what he said because it proves the point. Duh. At this point you are now acting as a group of Cornell undergrads did a few years ago in their blind support for Charlie Tan, the drug dealing student who his second judge stated clearly murdered his father. Those students witnessed and read plenty of the evidence that could have easily led them to understand the truth in that matter, but they didn't want to see it so they blindly supported him despite the evidence of his guilt. I am not comparing anyone to Tan here, but I am comparing you to Cornell students who when shown evidence of a fact pattern were just unwilling to see it. I stand by what I said before. Koll has obviously brought lawyers into the equation. By his own words this is so.
  17. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Nice try. Koll does use the word lawyer and the only one forcing this issue is Koll, and he is bringing lawyers to the table so HE is the one making it a legal situation. I will use Koll's own words to illustrate how wrong you are. At the 14 minute mark: Koll mentions the USOC, USA Wrestling, UWW and Article 9. He brings up literally and every possible avenue to appeal this to. He talks about how "I don't speak legalese and I certainly don't write it". How this caused him to utilize "Cornell people" and "Cornell Associates" to assist with writing the documents (which are now up to 18 pages at last count). Koll then goes on to say "I'm not a lawyer, my brother is one. I despise the profession, but at the same time its what you gotta do. If you go in and you think you are going to handle it by yourself then you are naive". At the 21 minute mark: Quote: "I just want to have legal representation to make sure we put our best foot forward. To make sure they look at the rules and interpret them the right way. I'm not saying we're taking this to a higher level, I'm just saying we are preparing documents for people to make it as clear, as concise, and as accurate as humanly possible". Not only does Koll mention lawyers, he ties the writing of the documents to his legal representation by mentioning both in the same sentence. I think it is obvious by his choice of words that the "Cornell Associates" are lawyers, even if he did not state so outright. Koll's own words clearly show your claim that he is not "lawyering up" to simply be false. I further stipulate Koll is disingenuous when he claims "I'm not saying we're taking this to a higher level" when, by definition taking it beyond the arena is taking it to a higher level. He even makes sure that everyone knows he is thinking of all possible higher levels because he named them. Geez, open your eyes. Koll has indeed lawyered up.
  18. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    But even with Equal Rights, they HAVE Equal Rights. Nobody is stopping them from generating the same cash flow as the men, they just can't do so. If everyone must be paid the same based on gender equality and the only argument is they do the same thing, then I am going to pick up a microphone and start singing. Then, despite the fact I stink on ice at singing, I am going to demand equal pay as Madonna and whomever else makes huge money singing.
  19. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    There is one idiot in the Senate trying to open up an inquiry into why women basketball players in the WNBA make less than their male counterparts in the NBA. Is she just stupid, or is ignorant a better word for her? 1. They draw flies. 2. Ticket prices are less than $10 is some cases because otherwise they wouldn't even draw flies. 3. Their TV contract is peanuts because nobody wants to watch their product. And she can't figure out why they get paid less? Why is she wasting tax payer money on crap like this?
  20. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    I got nothing.
  21. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Go watch the Rudis Podcast where Dernlan interviewed Koll the Monday after Final X. He brings up lawyers and is very specific about it.
  22. TBar1977

    Commits at Fargo

    Gallagher vs Valencia was wild. Also, and this match isn't done yet, but the scoring in Plott vs Foca seemed whack. Plott had Foca totally off the ground and initiated a roll thru and it seemed to me in real time the pts should belong to Plott, but they gave points to Foca. Gotta see that one again.
  23. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Because Koll brought it up. And if you think lawyers were in no way involved in the draft of his 18 page complaint then I think you are either naive or in denial.
  24. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    Not you, the guy you responded to. If you are going all in on the protect what is in the best interest of the wrestler, then by all means go ALL IN. Don't try to have it both ways. Chamizo was looking out for his own interests. The guy at 65 was looking out for his own interests. How is this any different than Koll lawyering up to look out for Yianni's interests? They are all motivated by what is in their own self interest here.
  25. TBar1977

    Final Forfeits

    You would think someone who would defend lawyering up to "protect" a wrestler's interest would understand why another wrestler would forfeit (ostensibly to protect ranking or against risk of injury) in the finals of a lesser tournament.
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