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Posts posted by TBar1977

  1. 12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

    So you agree that Mark Hall was also “held out” of the matches before his redshirt was pulled?

    The decision to redshirt or not redshirt, coaches make that for different reasons obviously than how fans look at it when comparing wrestlers. Regardless, if two fans are arguing the record of different wrestlers, it matters who that wrestler beat and what the level of their competition was. Spencer's was not as high as the other 4 timers. 


    1 hour ago, wrestlingphish said:

    That’s because he was still in redshirt and they needed to see how the knee held up. If he wrestled in the dual his redshirt is gone. He competed unattached at the UNI Open preserving his redshirt.


    1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

    can you read? i never suggested he wasn't ready. they hadn't decided if he was going to redshirt or not. the common view heading into that year was that they weren't good enough to win a title with him, so why not save his eligibility for a year when they would be? the acl recovery keeping him off the mat until november added more weight to this view. it was a surprise when they pulled him.

    it's like asking why cael held mark hall out against jim wilson and ryan preisch while he was clearly "ready" because he was wrestling opens. because they hadn't decided to use him yet. any person with common sense could figure that out.

    In the words of the great wrestling mind NJDan...


    2 hours ago, NJDan said:

    You could say that a redshirt year is the ultimate duck. In essence, you are ducking the field for a whole year and doing it when you are at your weakest.


    Here is the bottom line for me. Sure, they were deciding on whether he'd wrestle or not that year, but that is what a pitch count is. A coaching decision. Could be short term, could be longer term. But the bottom line is he was held out vs Suriano there and then later held out multiple times vs Glory. He's missing the matches where the other wrestler is conceivably good enough to beat him. So they hold him back. 

    Also, he will still have the 5 years and less than 90 wins thing compared to other guys who won an average of about 125 times. Significant. 

    Mark Hall isn't being offered for consideration as among the best of the best of all time. His freshman year is of no consequence here.  

  3. 32 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

    1st: no he was not on a pitch count until day 1. He came in recovering from ACL surgery and got on the mat as soon as he could given the timeline.

    Freshman year: He did not wrestle vs Rutgers on December 8. He then DID wrestle 3 matches in the UNI Open December 9. 

    To suggest he wasn't ready on the 8th and then magically was ready on the 9th is silly and anyone with common sense could figure that out. 

  4. 159 wins Sanderson

    135 wins or thereabouts Dake

    121 wins Pat Smith

    119 wins Steiber

    Never mind Hodge, Uetake, Dan Gable and Gable S.


    Now here is Spencer Lee. His career on the most carefully managed pitch count from literally Day 1. He shows up late this year he ends up with what? 85 maybe 90 wins in 5 years?

    Btw, that word literally means just that. He could have wrestled Nick Suriano in the Iowa-Rutgers dual in December of his freshman year and they held him out of that dual only to have him wrestle 3 times the very next freaking day at the UNI Open. 

    Sorry, he's 5th out of that group.  

  5. 9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

    You act like the list of 4 timers is long…

    Pretty sure I called it a "pack". I don't think of pack being a long list.


    9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

    Huh?  The sentence you bolded said he beats those guys at 50% (and I’d agree)

    I thought it was obvious I was disagreeing that Lee could simply beat those guys at 50%. He might not need to be 100%, but I don't think 50% cuts it. 


    8 hours ago, Twooooo said:

    It's just a way for Tbar to take another cheap shot at an Iowa wrestler.  YES Tbar you are correct, because of his oh so many L's, Lee would be at the very bottom of a list of 5.  Good thing you pointed that out though.

    Just stating the case. You can't miss that many matches against your primary competition and then use wins against lower ranked guys as a differentiating factor vs someone else with the same number of titles. They however can use their superior record vs their primary competition as evidence to the contrary. They showed up, Lee is sitting. Sorry, but facts are facts. 

  6. 1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

    I was about to make a post "Lee will wrestle the least amount of college matches of any 4x champ, between now and forever "



    Combined with his numerous L's, this will place him at the absolute very bottom of the pack of 4 timers. Still a great wrestler, but the others would have to be higher for sure. 

  7. 11 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

    Big 10 is not super deep at his weight. SL beats guys like Schroder, McKee, and Heinselman at 50%.  If Hildebrant wrestles, I would include him in that group.  Only Suriano poses a threat at conference, and SL could just forfeit the finals match and still get a high seed at the NCAA tournament based on being the returning 3x champ.

    For the NCAA tournament, the committee will split up SL, Suriano, Glory, and Vito into different quarter brackets.  This is all assuming that both Vito and Suriano wrestle at 125.

    Assuming he is 100% healthy, yes. 

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