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Posts posted by TBar1977

  1. 53 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

    I honestly think the goalposts have moved so many times because the human body and its reaction to disease, drugs, whatever is incredibly complex.  Too complex to completely understand at this point in human science.  (We may never completely understand it??)  

    Still, though, some things we do understand and have understood for hundreds of years seem to be panning out as the medical community could have and many did predict. Virus's weaken. People's immunity kicks in. Life goes on and we deal with it. All of this IS happening. 



    53 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

    I also believe that the vast majority of the medical community has the best interests of the public in mind.  I also believe that Big Pharma is beyond reprehensible when it comes to pushing drugs on the public, as you see in the endless tv ads for drugs and the opioid epidemic.

    Is natural immunity better than vaxing?  I hope/suspect so.  I'm just afraid many, many souls could be lost in the process.  I also realize that the following is not an exact analogy with Covid for a few reasons.  I also think that our government is probably being overly cautious, but that's probably better than being not cautious enough.  I think we're all "flying blind" to some extent.


    40 minutes ago, Mphillips said:


    There are a bunch of dummies who insist it's a conspiracy and not only that, but that it is a global conspiracy to boot...


    There are loads of conspiracy theories, Mphillips, that is for sure. But there are also not enough of the right questions being asked imo. 

    BernieP, I agree with you that the vast majority of  the medical community has the best interest of the public in mind. I think this is so worldwide. I still believe in the hippocratic oath. But it doesn't help when the messaging becomes mixed and much of it seems to lack any common sense. Did/do these Covid Quarantine/Interment facilities work? How could any sound thinking person believe so when Omicron cases have swept the entire globe? Lock down a few hundred people here or there and not one thing changes in the big scheme of things.

    They need to try other things, because their response right now is not working. When we have therapies at our disposal, why is the answer to every question to mask up and take another vaccine shot? Especially in light of recent medical consensus in Europe starting to develop that the shots themselves at such short intervals will weaken immune systems? 

  2. 59 minutes ago, dman115 said:

    Wait for the attack on your news sources Tbar!!  LOL  Still can't believe someone called natural immunity stupid...crazy world we live in.

    Wonder what some on here will do when all the fear mongering stops, and triple vaccination shots aren't recommended any longer??

    Yeah, because Bloomberg is some whacky right wing lunatic fringe publication. 

  3. 14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

    We literally already had this conversation after NCAA's.

    The RBY/Fix finals match posted was the first example and pretty much everyone but you agreed it was stalling.  I also had a clip of Starocci which has apparently been taken down off youtube although not everyone agreed with me that it was stalling.

    Everyone meaning everyone in that thread.

    The announcers in that match both felt otherwise as I have shown above. 

  4. 27 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

    While I'm not an Iowa fan, I would point to any bout Hall wrestled Jordan Kutler.  Here are two bouts.  Common tactic in his matches v Kutler.  Here are two bouts that will provide the evidence you request.

    He would sit on the ankle and pry back on Kutler's hand.  (See 6:30 of the dual meet video).  No real attempts to turn Kutler - only riding.


    In the match you linked and cited the 6:30 point here is my response.

    The official does not call either wrestler for stalling, but implores both of them in period 3 to "work". When Kutler was on top he walked Hall OOB 2x and got about 30 seconds of RT for his effort. Then when Hall was on top Hall moved his ride around from side to parallel and attempted to doa variety of things to improve working his hands to change position and improve. The pry on Kutler's hand lasts 1 second. 

    The ref, imo, does the right thing by calling 4 or 5 stalemates. Those stalemates advantaged Kutler and disadvantaged Hall, but Hall was simply better. We reward riding in this sport. Kutler was unable to ride, Hall was able to ride. Riding in and of itself is not stalling as the underlined of your commentary would suggest. 

    Kutler lost that match 6-1 because he gave up a pair of TD's and a RT point. 

  5. 43 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

    Here's one example I was able to find pretty quickly. Not every criticism against a PSU wrestler needs to be taken as a slight against your mother. RBY is a fantastic wrestler, as is Starocci, and anyone able to break in to PSU's starting lineup (except maybe at 125). But this is stalling, and was rightly called so in this example, but it often isn't. This is not an attempt to work to improve.



    Croatalus, I figured for sure someone would post this match. Let's examine this very match using not my point of view, but rather Gibbons and Tim Johnson's pov. 

    Note that when someone is indeed egregiously or at least obviously stalling the announcers almost always start to point it out. They say things like "Wrestler A is risking getting a stalling call here". That doesn't happen in this match. In fact, the words of Gibbons and Johnson tell a completely different story.

    Just immediately before the first stalling call - the only stalling call where RBY is in the top position

    Gibbons says "Oohs and Ahhs there as RBY almost caught Fix on his back" AND "He did a great job there Tim using his left arm to come back and attack the ankle and far knee"

    Johnson then says "Great Job"

    Gibbons then says "Excellent job. I'm surprised he's able to ride this well"

    Does that sound like stalling? Not at all. But that is precisely where the official hit RBY. 

    Gibbons then says "Stall warning from the top position. Interesting call there. 


    During and around the two stalling calls that occur about 20 seconds apart with both wrestlers on their feet in the final 45 seconds of period 3

    With about 45 seconds remaining and not an ounce of commentary suggesting RBY is stalling, this is stall call #2 resulting in a 1 point penalty. RBY is literally shooting as the call is made.

    With 27 seconds remaining Fix literally pushes RBY out of bounds and the ref hits RBY yet again, thus giving Fix yet another point. Before I get to the commentary, take not only1 of the 3 calls occurred with RBY in the top position.

    Here is the commentary after the two stall calls in period 3. Johnson "Who'd the call the stall on"??? Then the follow up is "Fix pushed him directly out". Gibbons responds "Amazing set of calls there in the last 20 seconds. You just don't see that". 

    Finally, after RBY wins the match in sudden death you hear this comment "In a match that looked like it was going to be taken away from him .........."


    I don't have to defend RBY in this match. Jim Gibbons and Tim Johnson do it for me. 


  6. 1 hour ago, dman115 said:

    But natural immunity is stupid... <eye roll>

    It used to be, but in the near future those who once called it stupid will do an about face on the subject. If there is one thing yesterday's hearings illustrated (along with the prior ones)  is that if they didn't have multiple sets of moving goal posts they'd have no goal posts at all. Loved the imagery of Walensky double masked while speaking and Fauci not masked at all while speaking. 

    EDIT: Btw, go read the front page of Bloomberg News today. European epidemiologists are warning about never ending booster shots wearing down a person's immunity. Europe is moving from a pandemic model to an endemic model. That will come here, and the policies of fear will have to be left to the dustbin of history. Those articles are close to the ones on the 40 year high in inflation and the other ones where Bloomberg opinion writers penned these headlines:


  7. 13 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

    Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

    How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?


    12 hours ago, 1032004 said:


    And I think you were the only one that brought up Hall?

    One, I brought up Hall because he was the one time poster child for the HR crowd and this "sitting on the ankle" narrative that seemingly every official in wrestling did not ever call on him or any other PSU wrestler. 

    Two, if the PSU wrestlers are getting takedowns they are not stalling.  

  8. 59 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

    I have a short memory but I don't recall Hall sitting on the ankle that much.  IIRC RBY and Starocci are probably the biggest offenders I've seen.

    Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

    How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?

  9. 2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

    The Hawkeye tight-waist, push-the-elbow-away, head-in-armpit, butt-in-the-air, drive-foward, e.g. the one Borshel used on Henrich in the semis.

    Spencer Lee uses the butt in the air head in the armpit technique too, but he is working to improve from there and almost always does so. End result being a TF in most cases. 

  10. 14 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

    I conceded everything about that after it happened and have ever since. Have I  not?  Hell, I just did it again. 

    As far as the well done goes, I am not arguing against PSU winning those matches, I am actually arguing that those 2 PROVED to be much better that day and have shown it ever since, especially Brooks. All I was saying was no matter where those matches were wrestled RBY and Brooks were winning those matches that day. Period.  Not sure why it is deserving of a well done, other than you are happy someone else is debating on PSU’s behalf on a topic where I am actually the one arguing RBY and Brooks were clearly better than their Iowa opponents that day and have proven to be ever since.

    I would think what I posted would be what makes you happy…

    The Well Done was not intended for you, but rather for Wrestleknownothing for his keen observation. 

  11. 1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

    Let me add, to put some egg on my face, I absolutely thought DeSanto would beat RBY going into that match.  He had proven to be so much more physical and active in their prior matches.  I simply didn't see how RBY could negate his advantage in the ties and RBY wasn't going to simply wrestle from space because that had never really been his style.  Putting the arm back was ingenious and I never would have even considered it.

    As soon as I saw you write that I knew you didn't watch closely enough, or even listen closely enough. Pretty sure I even brought this up to you at some point that off season, although I won't look for it. 


    1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

    While I appreciate you turning up the volume and spelling your punctuation, you are just using confirmation bias. The reality is that before we knew what we knew after the match, Brooks and RBY were considered toss ups. Try reading the statements from before, since you can't forget what you know after.

    Well done. 

  12. 2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

    The arm back is a hard one for me.  At certain points it was stalling.  But, to me so was Burroughs back stepping to get you to chase before immediately double legging you to the mat.  It may be a set up, but it is also CLEARLY not trying to engage your opponent to get them into a position to your advantage.  Both, can and often are on par with the 4 point stance.  I don't care if you are using them to set up and score from.  WHILE you are doing it, you aren't actively wrestling.  By definition, you are stalling. 

    But, with that said RBY, Burroughs and Ferrari are proven wrestlers that get away with it because they are so good overall.  This is no different with PSU and the ankle ride.  If you think they are actively improving position while sitting on an ankle, there is no point talking wrestling with you, because it just isn't true.  Now it is a tactic like the above to bait you into forcing a position they can benefit from, but it isn't actively pursuing better positioning and that is EQUALLY true of all 4 positions I listed with some really good NCAA Champs using these positions to perfection.

    Iowa fans, you included, were always on Mark Hall for what you claim is stalling via sitting on the ankle. I will grant you Hall's entire career in a PSU singlet to show me a match where he sits on the ankle and does not work to improve. The stage is yours. Show me such a match. 

  13. 10 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

    Do you not think it is fundamentally a stall ride?  Hey, I actually give PSU a ton of credit for how well they use it knowing how unlikely it is to be called for it.  But, that doesn't mean it isn't a stall ride how it is used and I would say the same if Rayvon Foley was using it or Spencer Lee...

    They use it because it is not a stall ride. We have gone over this b4. As long as PSU is working to improve they are not stalling. If you try to put the opponents ankle off limits, then what's next? You could work your way thru the entire human anatomy.

    This is like Iowa fans thinking holding an arm back, something as an Iowa fan you mentioned just today, is stalling. You didn't call it stalling today, but you know how Iowa fans went batty when RBY did this and it worked. If pulling an arm back and disallowing your opponent to easily grab it is stalling, then why isn't pulling your leg back to prevent your opponent from easily getting to it also stalling? You see how this goes?

    Not stalling. 

  14. 15 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

    What of those 4 matches were actually toss ups as proven by the end of the year results.

    133-DeSanto vs. RBY  Going into the match it probably applied.  But, no one was ready for the adjustment RBY made and no crowd in the planet was going to help DeSanto that day.  Since then,  RBY has proven to be the favorite that day and ever since.  That isn't to say that DeSanto can't beat him, but he would have to wrestle a nearly flawless match to do so.

    157-Young won decisively.

    165-Now that was simply a great match.  Joseph won the big 50/50 position that day.  But, Joseph was also unflappable.  Wrestling in Carver probably actually helped to further motivate him.  Having lost to him twice before that probably didn't help Alex's chances at winning 3 in a row much either.

    184-Finally, 184 wasn't a toss up in any way other than on paper.  Brooks made Assad look very slow and flat-footed the entire match.


    Of those 4, the only toss up I really see is 165 and that is taking a 3x NCAA FInalist and 2x Champ against a guy that inarguably has gone 6th, 7th and DNP.  One guy has proven that he LIVED off big time matches...

    Penn State has a bunch of those guys in their line up right now. 

  15. Mine comes under the heading of Other. This was so egregious they basically put an end to it so that you don't really see it any more. It was where the top wrestler grabbed an ankle and picked it up and creatively walked the bottom wrestler out of bounds. Guys used to melt whole periods away doing this, but thankfully they adjusted the rules to put an end to it.

  16. With basically everyone accounted for, Intermat has the following tournament rankings:

    1 Penn State                  Big Ten        112.5 1
    2 Iowa Big Ten 92.5 2
    3 Michigan Big Ten 89.5 3 (T)
    4 Arizona State Pac-12 66.5 3 (T)
    4 Oklahoma State Big 12 66.5 5






  17. 8 minutes ago, portajohn said:

    Nice predictions.  I'm feeling Ayala beats Hildebrandt if he can avoid going underneath, Bartlett beats Murins in OT, Brooks majors Assad, and healthy Kerk beats skinny Cass.

    Healthy Berge takes out GrandPa Young. Starocci beats Great GrandPa Kem. Nick Lee beats the Riddler. 

    DeSanto melts down after RBY rocks his world a second time in Carver. 

  18. Hidlay can be tough with that lefty underhook and his right grip on the upper arm on the other side yanking on that arm. Its that arm that is injured on KemDawg, and that is gonna hurt if that shoulder is still not 100 percent. 

    I'll go with Hidlay. 

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