sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in New Wrestling Documentary
A great wrestling documentary, illustrating the similarities between international Beach Wrestling and one of the dozens of sand-based folkstyle wrestling. This movie was made prior to the rule changes on the international style, which has since expanded to three points to win, along with the elimination of the "knee down" rule.
If you'd like to take a peek at the listing of beach wrestling events scheduled in 2016 (so far), check out this link. https://www.facebook.com/Sand-Wrestling-179868248782719/events?key=events
sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in How to boost the adult divisions?
I've seen quite a number of videos about the Sardinia International, always happy to see it when Canadians place. But only because Lutte Canada won't sanction the beach style, ad excited that there are Canadian wrestlers are willing to travel to these international events even without their governing body's backing of the style. I'm going to look at those again, never paid attention to their uniforms. Might be one reason the American women don't come out for the style in large numbers, the idea they must wear bikinis. But I've never heard of a contest that didn't allow for them to wear other types of swimwear that wasn't bikini's or the one-piece.
Interesting concept about the Europeans. I've known that their sports teams aren't school associated, but hadn't thought fully how that effects wrestling. Another double-edged sword that we face. Taking it out our schools might increase the opportunities for adults, but could have the reverse effect for the kids. While not all states have this view, but when mentioned I mentioned that I wrestled while living in Georgia, the typical response was, "Isn't that just for kids?" So it would still be a hurdle in number of areas if sport teams were disassociated from the schools. That might never happen anyways, but I wouldn't say it's impossible with the growing trend of 'pay-to-play' sports at the school level, the growing view that sports are a drain on the school's resources, and the growth of sports clubs (all sports, not just wrestling). Even then, a lot of adults who were athletes had their glory days in high school (again, all sports), so that isn't going to be a popular view for quite sometime, if it ever will.
sandwrestling reacted to WreslingSuperior in How to boost the adult divisions?
I'm agree with you.
USA Wrestling and UWW could support the creation of new adult programs...
In Europe the situation is different because the 90% of wrestling clubs aren't school teams so you have a program with junior and adult classes.
The uniform is a big problem. Over two years of words and you can't see a new Olympic wrestling uniform. The singlet is unpopular. A modified singlet with an upper body compression t-shirts and integrate shorts is possible.
I'm agree about the change of beach wrestling uniform in woman's division. NoGi Grappling / Pankration uniforms is simply perfect.
The Italian "Sardinia Beach Wrestling" is an example. It is organised after an international Olympic wrestling tournament and you can see a lot of freestyle/greco athletes wrestling under a different ruleset.
sandwrestling reacted to crablegs in How to boost the adult divisions?
One of the major impediments is not the tournaments, but the opportunities to practice. There are few if any gyms for adult wrestling. That may be on the rise due to mma, but there still aren't many. If you aren't coaching high school/college there really isn't much opportunity to wrestle.
Personally something that has kept me away is not having practiced. Who wants to show up at a tournament to wrestle and completely gas in the 1st period since they haven't wrestled since the tournament last year?
sandwrestling reacted to Zebra in Chance Marsteller quitting the sport of wrestling?
I wrestled 4-years in college and at no point did I ever consider quitting. Even after college I never quit I just transitioned to coaching ad reffing.
I have taken a temporary break while my kid is in high school as I don't wan there to even be a whisper that he has gotten preferential treatment because his dad is a ref. Once we get him enrolled in college I will dust off my striped shirt and get back on the mat.
sandwrestling reacted to WreslingSuperior in wrestling internet rabbit hole
One objective of Beach Wrestling is to serve as an introductory style to our mat-styles, totally agree. I think that others styles like grappling and pankration have an important role : the martial aspect of Wrestling. You can also see a lot of wrestlers over 35 fighting in these styles...
Today there are also young wrestlers attracted to submission and mma/striking so if you have a club with pankration and grappling programs you have a big advantage.
sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in wrestling internet rabbit hole
There has been a lot going on with Beach Wrestling over the past year, but I agree that should be a better job of spreading the word. Just over a year ago, UWW created an international Beach Wrestling meeting, and UWW board members have been quoted on many occasions that they would like to get this style included into the Games. They also included a Beach Wrestling Pan-Am Championships in 2015, although it wasn't held alongside the rest of the Pan-Ams. More nations are participating every year, and it's starting to grow in South America now too (including the growth of the Brazil Cup). A great change made last January was switching out the touch-rule to takedowns, which is something I've been pestering them for a few years, citing that one objective of Beach Wrestling is to serve as an introductory style to our mat-styles, they should use the same takedown scoring as the mat style. Even though they have made the chance to takedowns, there were still many nations using the touch-rule, which tells us we aren't getting the news of the rule-changes efficiently. Something we need to work on, and something I work hard at trying to help.
With that being said, I'm also willing to help clubs who are hosting beach wrestling contests spread the word with the Sand Wrestling website, and this year want to create "facebook events" for all of those contest to help boost the numbers. If anyone has a contest and would like me to spread the word, or have questions about this style, please send me an e-mail at email@example.com. I will do my best to help.
And I totally agree about Grappling, we need to do more to get the info out there. The U.S. has been a 5-style country for over a decade now, yet far too many wrestlers don't realize it, which means we are slipping at promoting our sport. If wrestlers don't know about them, then the general population doesn't have a clue.
sandwrestling reacted to HurricaneWrestling in Easy-to-Read Beach Wrestling Guide
Thanks for that info, Mr. Sandwrestling. I've been interested in checking out this new beach thing for a while now.
I haven't been able to get the missus to go with me to other wrestling events. And she's always complaining that I spend too much time at them. However, she loves the beach. This might just be what the doctor ordered.
sandwrestling got a reaction from HurricaneWrestling in Easy-to-Read Beach Wrestling Guide
Thought I'd share this, hope it helps encourage more wrestling clubs to plan an outdoor fundraiser for their club next summer. And now is the perfect time to talk with your team about a beach wrestling fundraiser.
Please remember, that this does not need to happen at the beach (although the beach is always nice). If your local park has a sand volleyball pit, then your good to go.
Best of luck to everyone this upcoming scholastic season! :D
sandwrestling reacted to Cletus_Tucker in Best of Iowa: Gable vs Gotch?
Fans tend to get defensive over their heroes when one points out defeat, particularly defeat of the most definitive and dominant fashion.
Obviously when the options are senior high school and junior high, either falls into the category of high school, albeit undetermined which level. Furthermore, add in it was 9th grade, not 7th or 8th, and to me at least, that qualifies as high school. Perhaps it's best to simply call it 9th grade. From 9th-12th grade he was pinned once. Very impressive no matter how one words it.
sandwrestling reacted to HurricaneWrestling in Best of Iowa: Gable vs Gotch?
No doubt Douglas was the clear favorite to win the 1968 Olympic Trials. Gable, coming off his first NCAA title, was one of a few considered to have an outside shot at upsetting Bobby. Dave Pruzanski wasn't expected to do that much. He wrestled the weight above Gable for Temple and had just gone 2-1 at NCAAs where he DNP. (Pruzanski was knocked out of the tournament by Willigan of Hofstra, who finished 4th.) Nonetheless, he managed to hold Gable to a draw in a low-scoring 2-2 bout.
Tom Huff was six years older than Gable. Like Dan, he had wrestled for Siddens at West Waterloo, where he was also a 3x state high school champion. Huff attended the University of Iowa and garnered 3rd and 2nd place place NCAA finishes in his junior and senior years, respectively. His runner-up finish was an overtime loss to Bill Dotson of Northern Iowa (5-5, 3-2). Dotson was also from Waterloo, although he attended East Waterloo High School.
After graduating from Iowa, Tom Huff stayed at Iowa City and and enrolled in Dental school. After earning his DDS, he joined the Air Force and in 1968 was stationed at Colorado Springs. That provided him with an opportunity to resume his wrestling career. Tom began working out and wresting for the Air Force team. That Spring he won the Regional Qualifier in Colorado, which earned him a spot at the Olympic Trials.
Huff recounts his bout with Gable at the Olympic Trials in James Moffatt's book, "Wrestlers At The Trials":
"...I had to wrestle Gable for a chance to finish second...Now this was more than just another match - both of us being from Waterloo and all. For years Iowa fans were asking, 'Wonder who would win a Huff-Gable match?' We were both big deals in our careers at Waterloo West and then in college, although I never won the NCAAs."
"I took Dan down with my fireman's in the opening seconds and had him on his back, but we went off the mat. Back up on our feet, I took him down again - this time in the center of the mat - and put him straight on his back. His body got locked and his shoulders pinned and he didn't have a chance to bridge or turn. I didn't even have time to put in a half-nelson. He was pinned in just over a minute into the match."
A review of Gable's record discloses that the above was one of only two matches that he lost by pin during his wrestling career. The other loss by fall was to Ron Kesiter, as previously discussed. Interestingly, both of those losses occurred at the hands of wrestlers from Dan's hometown, Waterloo, Iowa. Uncanny!
Unfortunately for Gable, he never had an opportunity to avenge either of his losses to his fellow Wahawk alumni. So, two other guys from Waterloo (population 68,297) can lay claim to - not only defeating, but also pinning - one of America's most decorated wrestlers. In fact, Gable was quoted in a 2005 Des Moines Reister articles as stating; "Keister works for Deere in Waterloo and to this day he kids me about that."
Postscript: Another West Waterloo product who wrestled Gable tough was Dale Anderson. Dale was a 2x high school champ under Siddens and 2x NCAA champ at Michigan State, where he helped the Spartans win an NCAA title in 1967. Anderson was undefeated his last two years of college except for a single loss, which occurred in an overtime match against Gable at Midlands.
West Waterloo High School Wrestling History - 1937 thru 2008 (link)
sandwrestling reacted to rossel3 in Best of Iowa: Gable vs Gotch?
In addition to Keister, the other wrestlers who defeated Gable in official matches are:
Rick Sanders Masaaki Hatta Tom Huff Bobby Douglas Larry Owings Vasily Kozakhov Lee Kemp (Two other wrestlers were able to hold Gable to draws - Dave Pruzanski and Nasrulla Nasrualaev)>>
This list is correct, but to fill in some details...most of those losses came at the start of Gable's career in FS - 1967 and 1968 - he was 18 and 19 yrs old. And then the loss to Kemp after having been retired for nearly 3 years.
Gable lost to Hatta and Sanders at the same AAU FS tournament in 1967. At that early point in his career, FS was something Gable had very little experience in. Sanders was an undefeated ncaa champ and OW winner, and a World Bronze (1966) and World Silver (1967) medalist, Olympic Silver (1968), and World Gold (1969) and Hatta a former ncaa champ and World Silver medalist. Gable was 18 yrs old at the time, and hadn't yet started his varsity career at ISU.
The losses to Huff and Douglas came in 1968, at the OTT's, along with a draw with Pruzanski. Douglas was 4th in Olympics (1964) World Silver medalist in 1966, World Bronze in 1970 and had many US FS titles. Gable was 19 years old at that time.
The loss to Owings is the famous one, the lone blemish on a HS/collegiate career that finished 182-1.
In 1971, Gable was done with collegiate, and fully devoted to training FS. He had a loss to USSR's Kozakhov at Tiblisi by 3-2. Gable avenged this loss at the 1971 Worlds, beating Kozakhov 5-1 for the Gold medal.
Though his international career was not a long one, but at his peak - from World 1971 through Olympics 1972, he was on a tear. Some notable wins included:
Beating Lloyd Keaser of USA for the finals of OTT's in 1972, by 22-0 and 11-0. Keaser was World Gold medalist in 1973, and 1976 Olympic Silver.
4 duals matches vs Nasrullayev of USSR in 1971. Gable won 2 by decision, 1 by fall, with 1 draw. Nasurllayev would win World Silver in '73 and Gold in '74. Gable's last FS match, before retiring, had him facing USSR's Pinigan in a dual meet. Pinnigan was a World Gold medalist in 1975, 1977, and Olympic Gold in 1976.
The last loss to Lee Kemp came after Gable came out of retirement, not having competed in almost 3 years, and wrestling at 158#, losing to Kemp 7-6.
While suffering very few losses in his career, Gable's record is even more remarkable when one considers that most of them occurred in FS as a teenager wrestling against World/Olympic medalists. Once in his prime in FS, he was extremely dominant.
sandwrestling reacted to rossel3 in Best of Iowa: Gable vs Gotch?
Gotch was born in 1877. There was no NCAA back then. His first match was at age 22. He was a heavyweight professional wrestler ~ 200 lbs. He started out with some losses, including one to "Farmer" Martin Burns, but eventually won the world heavyweight championship and held the title for almost 5 years. Some of the matches lasted an hour or two.
Gable v Gotch.... this is beyond apples and oranges...might as well bring Samson and Abe Lincoln into the discussion.
sandwrestling reacted to HurricaneWrestling in Best of Iowa: Gable vs Gotch?
Gable had one loss in the ninth grade to Ron Keister. In the Iowa City Press Citizen's "Untold Gable" series, Craig Foss recounted that Gable had "made mince meat out of his competition" prior to meeting Keister. Foss went on to describe the match as follows:
"Both wrestlers were undefeated when their respective schools met for a show down between the two top junior high wrestling programs in Waterloo at the time. The match between Gable and Keister ended much quicker than anyone expected as Keister caught Gable off guard, took him down, put him on his back and pinned him!"
The following year, Gable matriculated from Waterloo's junior high to its senior high, where he went 64-0 and won 3 state titles.
In addition to Keister, the other wrestlers who defeated Gable in official matches are:
Rick Sanders Masaaki Hatta Tom Huff Bobby Douglas Larry Owings Vasily Kozakhov Lee Kemp (Two other wrestlers were able to hold Gable to draws - Dave Pruzanski and Nasrulla Nasrualaev)
sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in First International BW Gold Medal
I know that there hasn't been any updates on the USA Wrestling or UWW websites, but I'd like to conratulate 2x U.S. National Champion and 2014 World Bronze medalist, Ike Okoli, on being the first U.S. wrestler to win a gold medal in an officially sanctioned UWW international event. Okoli won the gold medal at the Beach Wrestling Pan-Am Games, which were held last week in Columbia. Canada, Venezuela, Brazil and Colombia were also represented at the Pan-Ams.
I hope that Ike can carry this momentum into the Brazil Cup next month, and help motivate other members of the U.S. Team to also earn medals for the U.S. The date of the 2015 World Championships was pushed up, which caused many nations (the U.S. included) to not have ample time to send representatives to this year's World Championships. Instead, this year's U.S. Team will get a chance to make an impact at the Brazil Cup.
Despite these events being predominatley countries from the west, I beleive this is a great step in the right direction for the oldest version of mankind's oldest sport to continue to grow here in the western hemisphere, as this style has been dominated by the eastern hemisphere. If you are looking for a star for this style, I believe in Ike. I hope you follow his wrestling journey too, and let's cheer him on as he continues his Beach Wrestling career and possibly be the first American to win the gold at next year's World Championships...actually, let's cheer him on to be the first wrestler to win a gold for the western side of the world.
If anyone is interested in tryin to make the 2016 U.S. Team for Beach Wrestling, the qualifier is already set for Carolina Beach, North Carolina on the weekend of May 20th-22nd. There is the unique opportunity for adult wrestlers to qualify for a spot on TWO U.S. Teams, as the Grappling World Team Trials are also that same weekend in Carolina Beach.
The 2016 World Championships are tentatively set for September 10-11 in Fazana, Croatia, but there is already discussion about hosting next year's Worlds in Jamaica. We will just have to wait and see, as after the completion of the 2011 World Championships it was being said that the 2012 Worlds was going to take place in Miami, Florida, and that didn't happen. I would love to see it moved to Jamaica, as it would be the first Beach Worlds in the west (all 10 previous World Championships have been in the east).
sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in Freestyle vs Greco vs Folkstyle
Good topic, and no real right or wrong answers. I'd like to expand it to all 5 American styles, since the U.S. hasn't been a 3-style country in over ten years now.
Based solely on important strength is to a particularr style, I'd rank them as follows:
1. Greco-Roman, since the style is mainly focused on upper-body techniques
2. Beach Wrestling/ Sand Wrestling, more so with the pre-2015 rules that the rest of the world was using, but if you want to consider mightymouses post, no style is more challanging on the stabalizer muscles than this style
3. Freestyle, since throws are also used and oftentimes the ground wrestling points can sometimes be determined by who's strength can finish or prevent a score.
4. Folkstyle/ Scholastic- strength is nice but it isn't necessary at all to be successful. It's like a secondary trait to technique, balance, and endurance; the same level of importance as speed and flexibility.
Incomplete- Grappling- I only put this here because I don't know much about Grapping. I hope someone who does chimes in...in fact, I really wish we'd see more about Grapping on the International forum. The UWW Grappling World Championships just took place and would love to see more clubs an states offer that style to local wrestlers. Still hoping to see some major 5-style events going, and only wishing I was young enough to compete at these potential 5-style events.
sandwrestling reacted to mightymousejm125 in Are Beach Wrestling Matches Too Short?
What about adopting a similar set of rules like a Freestyle or Greco match?
1 pt.- Pushout 2 pt.- Takedown 4 pt. - Feet to back takedown 5 pt. - Grand amplitude feet to back I will say this, I went to a beach/sand tournament this summer and saw a lot of younger kids getting after it. Any opportunity to get dirty and having fun vs. playing video games is a good one in my book.
sandwrestling got a reaction from WreslingSuperior in Are Beach Wrestling Matches Too Short?
I was a little tired when I got online today, just finished up a 20 hour shift at work. Can only laugh at myself on how I can try to provide answers even when I'm half asleep, lol. Guess the whole 10-20 hours a week of studying this style for the past 9 yeaers is paying off :D A few other things that I missed that I'd like to address...
Isn't that what we international-style minded wrestlers feel about the current collegiate structure, lolol. Just kidding, but all jokes aside, we should be supporting the entire sport of wrestling. I understand that we all have our favorite style, but each style has it's benefits to the wrestling community. Let's try to be a little more supportive please.
I know I'm highlighting this post again, I missed the part about the "name guys". While that may be true for the moment in terms of U.S. wrestlers, that isn't true with the rest of the world. Georgia has been known to send their Olympians (including medal winners) to the Beach Worlds on a regular basis (in fairness, their folkstyle wrestling is sand based), and a few Olympians from other nations have given it a shot at the Beach Worlds too.
I don't see any current stars on the U.S. roster in an Olympic style doing beach wrestling in the immediate future, but not because this is somehow an inferior style, but because those men and women tend to focus on their particular style. Much in the same way it isn't likely for a freestyle Olympian to suddenly make the jump to Greco, and vice-versa. Just like the other styles, beach wrestling has it's own set of rules and it's own strategy to win...shoot, there are extra stances to learn to be sucessful at the international level of beach wrestling that doesn't really translate well on the mat. But down the road, and one of these stars just might make a jump. The reason? Those men and women who are nearing the end of their careers just might make a run to see how many Olympic/World medals they can accumulate before they hang up the singlets (or board shorts). Who's to say that Jordan Burroughs wins Gold at the next two Olympic Games and a World Championship in the non-Olympic years (and he certainly could, since he is still a year away from being in that biological prime for male athletes, which is the 28-32 year old bracket). That would put him at 12 World/Olympic Titles. Who's to say that he wouldn't want to pad his total number of World/Olympic medals and start gunning for the Beach World gold? A hypothetical scenario, absolutely, but not one that is out of the question. Even if Beach doesn't get into the Olympic Games (an absolute travesty if it doesnt'), the World Championships aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
I love the feedback, wheter it's positive, negative, or inquisitive. Still didn't hear about anything with regards to the main point of the blog, which was that I believe that this style can help the nations that struggle to get any wrestlers into the Olympics with the current two styles finally send wrestlers to the Games, which will only help promote wrestling (that is, all styles of wrestling) in those countries. I can't be the only person who sees less than 10% of UWW member nations competing on the biggest stage of our sport as a HUGE problem. How about this, what suggestions are there to help increase the number of nations to participate? I gave beach wrestling as an example, that it would be possible to run an entire 64-person bracket in one day (as it seems that they want to finish a weight class the same day it starts), which would certainly incease the number of participating countires. Getting more countires involved would help keep wrestling in the Games, or am I truly way off base with that asperation?
Geez, feel like I'm writing a book. Could've sworn I just published a book on beach wrestling...
sandwrestling reacted to JasonBryant in Are Beach Wrestling Matches Too Short?
I think this style is probably the only real way for wrestling to be a lifestyle sport. I've announced Beach events in VA and they do draw interesting crowds on the Oceanfront. It's got roots in traditional wrestling, but we arent going to see any "name" guys ever do this ... I understand the push from that community, but its biggest benefit is expanding the reach of wrestling itself (in the US) than trying to break itself out as a spectator and competitive style.
sandwrestling reacted to WreslingSuperior in Are Beach Wrestling Matches Too Short?
Beach wrestling is a form of wrestling and uww isn't only an Olympic wrestling federation. It a world Wrestling federation. Beach wrestling is an important style in some countries where the sport of wrestling isn't so popular.