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rpm002

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rpm002 last won the day on June 2 2017

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  1. Both of these analogies are missing something here. It is not simply a matter of KJ passing incorrect information. KJ's claim is USA Wrestling told him that weigh-ins went until 8:30 and then he passed that information he got from USAW onto J'Den. If that is true, then the law seems to indicate Cox be protected for believing information that he thinks is coming from USA Wrestling. For the analogies above to be like our current situation, USA Wrestling would have to tell KJ that four 1s beats one 4 or USA wrestling would have to tell KJ that J'Den's wrestling time was different than it actually was. If those things had happened, then the cases would be at least somewhat analogous.
  2. That's definitely fair... I don't know if there is any administrative component to KJ's duties or not. My sincere thanks for the thoughtful reply. A rare glimmer of rationality in what is mostly an abomination of a message board thread! :)
  3. That is a fair critique and will probably be the other side of the argument in arbitration. Is it reasonable to infer that a statement that the "National Freestyle Development Coach" gives about weigh-ins for the biggest national freestyle wrestling event in the last several years is correct? I still would lean towards yes, but I agree that's not the only possible interpretation.
  4. Someone on Twitter made a great point that will surely come up in arbitration regarding the Law of Agency. So if you understand the relevant legal principles in play here, Cox's argument makes itself: 1) USA Wrestling appointed Kevin Jackson as its National Freestyle Development Coach. He reports directly to Zadick. In the press release from his hiring, KJ is quoted as saying: "I have spoken with Bill about his vision for USA Wrestling and what he sees as my role in that. We can communicate at the highest of levels." (I seriously could not have invented that quote if I tried!) 2) By virtue of USA Wrestling making this appointment, Kevin Jackson becomes a principal in the eyes of the law and has agency to communicate on behalf of USA Wrestling. 3) J'Den Cox knew that Kevin Jackson was appointed to this position. 4) Therefore, per the last sentence above, even if Kevin Jackson doesn't have the authority to change weigh-in times, if he tells a wrestler that they have until 8:30 to weigh-in, Cox is protected so long as he acts reasonably and consistently with what he was told. All of his actions (including the fact that he successfully weighed in prior to the time he was told) suggest that he did that. Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team. I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.
  5. Yes, I'm saying my post was true from 7:20 to, say, 7:50. At that point, he figured out or was told that 8AM was the deadline, but it was too late and couldn't cut enough to make it at that point. I think your last 2 sentences are an example of "hindsight bias". My guess is he thought that everyone else was making weight and recovering because 8AM was the deadline for those wrestling at 10AM, but 8:30AM (the time he specifically was told, which was different because he was not wrestling in the 10AM session) was his deadline, so he was OK? Now that all of this happened, it is very easy to say "it should have been obvious! how could he not realize sooner! he was right there!" but given his unique situation of having a bye from the 1st session, I think it would have been very easy to filter everything he saw through the lens of "they have to rush, I have a bye and a later weigh-in time, I'm good" until he was specifically told otherwise, but then it was too late.
  6. Mostly agree with this. Only quibble is from everything that is known about J'Den and about the timeline of events, there is zero reason to think it was a lie and every reason to think it was an honest mistake, as there is no motive here, and no advantage gained. But the fact that is true makes the actions of USA Wrestling even worse.
  7. (reposted from another thread since it is relevant here as well) Most wrestlers were wrestling in the first session, which started at 10 and knew the deadline was 2 hours before weigh-ins. Cox was not wrestling in that session so may have had no idea when it started, since it wasn't relevant to him, so that was a key reference point he may not have had. Or perhaps, he did know wrestling started at 10, and since he was told he had to make weight by 8:30 or 9, he just figured the best thing to do was to go weigh in shortly after 8 when most of the other wrestlers would have left and it wouldn't be so crowded. I suspect you are correct that at some point in this timeline, he saw cues to indicate that other wrestlers needed to weigh in by 8, but given he had a specific later time he was told and also had a bye from the first session (and therefore had reason to believe that the times relevant to others do not apply to him), I can definitely see how he could have filtered what he saw to think others needed to hustle and weigh-in by 8, but he was OK as long as he weighed in by the deadline he believed was in place when he arrived.
  8. Most wrestlers were wrestling in the first session, which started at 10 and knew the deadline was 2 hours before weigh-ins. Cox was not wrestling in that session so may have had no idea when it started, since it wasn't relevant to him, so that was a key reference point he may not have had. Or perhaps, he did know wrestling started at 10, and since he was told he had to make weight by 8:30 or 9, he just figured the best thing to do was to go weigh in shortly after 8 when most of the other wrestlers would have left and it wouldn't be so crowded. I suspect you are correct that at some point in this timeline, he saw cues to indicate that other wrestlers needed to weigh in by 8, but given he had a specific later time he was told and also had a bye from the first session (and therefore had reason to believe that the times relevant to others do not apply to him), I can definitely see how he could have filtered what he saw to think others needed to hustle and weigh-in by 8, but he was OK as long as he weighed in by the deadline he believed was in place when he arrived.
  9. Taylor just doesn't look as explosive to me, but we'll see.... also, I think many are making the assumption we will get fair or favorable refereeing in Tokyo. I'm assuming the opposite.
  10. 57kg: Gilman wrestles well, but drops 2 to finish 5th 65kg: DNQ 74kg: Bronze, losing on a questionable call or two in a low-scoring match 86kg: 5th 97kg: 5th if Snyder, Silver/Bronze if Cox 125kg: Bronze
  11. People who are "all over" things tend to not repeatedly post about them.....
  12. I highly doubt he weighed in at 7:24 given he arrived at the arena at 7:21. https://news.theopenmat.com/international-wrestling/an-update-on-the-jden-cox-weigh-in-saga/80611 Not certain, but I don't think arriving at 7:21 seems consistent with thinking you need to make weight by 8AM.
  13. Reposting from another thread: My solution: Cox is awarded a special wrestle-off with Snyder with terms as follows: If Cox wins 3 consecutive matches against Snyder, he takes Snyder's spot on the Olympic team. If Snyder wins any 1 of the 3 matches, Snyder keeps his spot and Cox returns to his present situation (not an Olympic team member or alternate). Aside from potentially losing their status as 1st/2nd Olympic alternate if Cox wins, no compensation, etc is changed for Moore or Gadson regardless of what happens. Also USA Wrestling employees can never be the primary coach for a wrestler going forward. This is imperfect, but the best possible option. Cox is in a worse position vs if this never happened (as he should be) because he has to win all 3 matches, not 2 of 3 and may not be on the world team at all. But if there is evidence to support the assertion that he is in this position because he trusted in good faith what a USA Wrestling employee was telling him, he should retain some possible scenario for making the team. If Cox clearly is the best by a considerable margin, there is a way in which he can play his way into the Olympics and improve the strength of the US Team, which is an important consideration here. (Yes, I realize this will not actually happen.)
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