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rpm002

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Everything posted by rpm002

  1. Both of these analogies are missing something here. It is not simply a matter of KJ passing incorrect information. KJ's claim is USA Wrestling told him that weigh-ins went until 8:30 and then he passed that information he got from USAW onto J'Den. If that is true, then the law seems to indicate Cox be protected for believing information that he thinks is coming from USA Wrestling. For the analogies above to be like our current situation, USA Wrestling would have to tell KJ that four 1s beats one 4 or USA wrestling would have to tell KJ that J'Den's wrestling time was different than it actually was. If those things had happened, then the cases would be at least somewhat analogous.
  2. That's definitely fair... I don't know if there is any administrative component to KJ's duties or not. My sincere thanks for the thoughtful reply. A rare glimmer of rationality in what is mostly an abomination of a message board thread! :)
  3. That is a fair critique and will probably be the other side of the argument in arbitration. Is it reasonable to infer that a statement that the "National Freestyle Development Coach" gives about weigh-ins for the biggest national freestyle wrestling event in the last several years is correct? I still would lean towards yes, but I agree that's not the only possible interpretation.
  4. Someone on Twitter made a great point that will surely come up in arbitration regarding the Law of Agency. So if you understand the relevant legal principles in play here, Cox's argument makes itself: 1) USA Wrestling appointed Kevin Jackson as its National Freestyle Development Coach. He reports directly to Zadick. In the press release from his hiring, KJ is quoted as saying: "I have spoken with Bill about his vision for USA Wrestling and what he sees as my role in that. We can communicate at the highest of levels." (I seriously could not have invented that quote if I tried!) 2) By virtue of USA Wrestling making this appointment, Kevin Jackson becomes a principal in the eyes of the law and has agency to communicate on behalf of USA Wrestling. 3) J'Den Cox knew that Kevin Jackson was appointed to this position. 4) Therefore, per the last sentence above, even if Kevin Jackson doesn't have the authority to change weigh-in times, if he tells a wrestler that they have until 8:30 to weigh-in, Cox is protected so long as he acts reasonably and consistently with what he was told. All of his actions (including the fact that he successfully weighed in prior to the time he was told) suggest that he did that. Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team. I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.
  5. Yes, I'm saying my post was true from 7:20 to, say, 7:50. At that point, he figured out or was told that 8AM was the deadline, but it was too late and couldn't cut enough to make it at that point. I think your last 2 sentences are an example of "hindsight bias". My guess is he thought that everyone else was making weight and recovering because 8AM was the deadline for those wrestling at 10AM, but 8:30AM (the time he specifically was told, which was different because he was not wrestling in the 10AM session) was his deadline, so he was OK? Now that all of this happened, it is very easy to say "it should have been obvious! how could he not realize sooner! he was right there!" but given his unique situation of having a bye from the 1st session, I think it would have been very easy to filter everything he saw through the lens of "they have to rush, I have a bye and a later weigh-in time, I'm good" until he was specifically told otherwise, but then it was too late.
  6. Mostly agree with this. Only quibble is from everything that is known about J'Den and about the timeline of events, there is zero reason to think it was a lie and every reason to think it was an honest mistake, as there is no motive here, and no advantage gained. But the fact that is true makes the actions of USA Wrestling even worse.
  7. (reposted from another thread since it is relevant here as well) Most wrestlers were wrestling in the first session, which started at 10 and knew the deadline was 2 hours before weigh-ins. Cox was not wrestling in that session so may have had no idea when it started, since it wasn't relevant to him, so that was a key reference point he may not have had. Or perhaps, he did know wrestling started at 10, and since he was told he had to make weight by 8:30 or 9, he just figured the best thing to do was to go weigh in shortly after 8 when most of the other wrestlers would have left and it wouldn't be so crowded. I suspect you are correct that at some point in this timeline, he saw cues to indicate that other wrestlers needed to weigh in by 8, but given he had a specific later time he was told and also had a bye from the first session (and therefore had reason to believe that the times relevant to others do not apply to him), I can definitely see how he could have filtered what he saw to think others needed to hustle and weigh-in by 8, but he was OK as long as he weighed in by the deadline he believed was in place when he arrived.
  8. Most wrestlers were wrestling in the first session, which started at 10 and knew the deadline was 2 hours before weigh-ins. Cox was not wrestling in that session so may have had no idea when it started, since it wasn't relevant to him, so that was a key reference point he may not have had. Or perhaps, he did know wrestling started at 10, and since he was told he had to make weight by 8:30 or 9, he just figured the best thing to do was to go weigh in shortly after 8 when most of the other wrestlers would have left and it wouldn't be so crowded. I suspect you are correct that at some point in this timeline, he saw cues to indicate that other wrestlers needed to weigh in by 8, but given he had a specific later time he was told and also had a bye from the first session (and therefore had reason to believe that the times relevant to others do not apply to him), I can definitely see how he could have filtered what he saw to think others needed to hustle and weigh-in by 8, but he was OK as long as he weighed in by the deadline he believed was in place when he arrived.
  9. Taylor just doesn't look as explosive to me, but we'll see.... also, I think many are making the assumption we will get fair or favorable refereeing in Tokyo. I'm assuming the opposite.
  10. 57kg: Gilman wrestles well, but drops 2 to finish 5th 65kg: DNQ 74kg: Bronze, losing on a questionable call or two in a low-scoring match 86kg: 5th 97kg: 5th if Snyder, Silver/Bronze if Cox 125kg: Bronze
  11. People who are "all over" things tend to not repeatedly post about them.....
  12. I highly doubt he weighed in at 7:24 given he arrived at the arena at 7:21. https://news.theopenmat.com/international-wrestling/an-update-on-the-jden-cox-weigh-in-saga/80611 Not certain, but I don't think arriving at 7:21 seems consistent with thinking you need to make weight by 8AM.
  13. Reposting from another thread: My solution: Cox is awarded a special wrestle-off with Snyder with terms as follows: If Cox wins 3 consecutive matches against Snyder, he takes Snyder's spot on the Olympic team. If Snyder wins any 1 of the 3 matches, Snyder keeps his spot and Cox returns to his present situation (not an Olympic team member or alternate). Aside from potentially losing their status as 1st/2nd Olympic alternate if Cox wins, no compensation, etc is changed for Moore or Gadson regardless of what happens. Also USA Wrestling employees can never be the primary coach for a wrestler going forward. This is imperfect, but the best possible option. Cox is in a worse position vs if this never happened (as he should be) because he has to win all 3 matches, not 2 of 3 and may not be on the world team at all. But if there is evidence to support the assertion that he is in this position because he trusted in good faith what a USA Wrestling employee was telling him, he should retain some possible scenario for making the team. If Cox clearly is the best by a considerable margin, there is a way in which he can play his way into the Olympics and improve the strength of the US Team, which is an important consideration here. (Yes, I realize this will not actually happen.)
  14. My solution: Cox is awarded a special wrestle-off with Snyder with terms as follows: If Cox wins 3 consecutive matches against Snyder, he takes Snyder's spot on the Olympic team. If Snyder wins any 1 of the 3 matches, Snyder keeps his spot and Cox returns to his present situation (not an Olympic team member or alternate). Aside from potentially losing their status as 1st/2nd Olympic alternate if Cox wins, no compensation, etc is changed for Moore or Gadson regardless of what happens. Also USA Wrestling employees can never be the primary coach for a wrestler going forward. This is imperfect, but the best possible option. Cox is in a worse position vs if this never happened (as he should be) because he has to win all 3 matches, not 2 of 3 and may not be on the world team at all. But if there is evidence to support the assertion that he is in this position because he trusted in good faith what a USA Wrestling employee was telling him, he should retain some possible scenario for making the team. If Cox clearly is the best by a considerable margin, there is a way in which he can play his way into the Olympics and improve the strength of the US Team, which is an important consideration here. (Yes, I realize this will not actually happen.)
  15. Not sure, but my guess is he'll be right in the mix with Graff, Colon, Gross, and others to try to make the 61kg world team and compete in Oslo.
  16. Gilman in 2, Oliver in 3, Burroughs in 3, Taylor in 2, Snyder in 2, Gable in 2
  17. I don't think this is possible. While there are scenarios where individuals with dual citizenship can change to represent a different nation, Olympic bylaws state you can't represent a new country if you have competed representing your prior county in the last 3 years, which J'den has.
  18. To me, talent is primarily genetic. Wrestling at a high level requires strength of many muscles, flexibility, speed, and body type that is conducive to being able to efficiently execute certain techniques. Among elite wrestlers, some have have more of these innate attributes that others. You are right that work ethic is key as well. Some people have the genetic makeup to potentially be stronger, but others out-train them. There are certainly cases where if both wrestlers fulfilled their full potential, wrestler A would be favored to win. But in reality, wrestler B worked harder and wrestler B at 99% of their potential was good enough to beat Wrestler A at 90% of theirs. And your last point has merit as well.... even how diligent of a worker one is has a genetic component as well, which complicates things even further.
  19. I would happily apply that exact phrase to Fix, Dake, Taylor, Snyder, Amos, Spencer Lee, Nick Lee, Gwiz, Coon, Parris, and many others.
  20. He's poking fun at Marable. It's pretty funny IMO.
  21. No, I think USA Wrestling has an out here. In their procedures document, they have a bracket that looks something like the one everyone is assuming they will use, but where there are 2 world medalists with byes to the semis, not one (so like the bracket they would use if Dake came down to 74kg and Green won a medal at 70kg and came up to 74kg). It is clearly labelled "Example Bracket". And in that scenario, that would be a reasonable bracket. But that is not the situation we have, so for the case of one wrestler getting a bye to the semi, I don't see why they would not have the flexibility to change to a different, less idiotic bracket. Some of these wrestlers have been training for this for day 20+ years.... you can't have a system where half of the wrestlers get a bye in the semifinals and the other half face a world medalist.... this is not hard people!
  22. This is much better than what USA wrestling came up with, but still not the best. Barring upsets, the 3 seed would need to beat the 2 seed, Dake, and the 1 seed. The 4 seed would need to beat the 5 seed, the 1 seed, and Dake. So in this proposed bracket, being #4 is still better than #3 (although at least not getting a bye to the semis!) The best is to look at Dake as the true #1, move everyone else down a seed, and put Dake in the semis. Then put 2 and 3 (1 and 2 on USA wrestling seeding document since Dake didn't get a seed) on the opposite side. So barring upsets, Dake wrestles the winner of 4 and 5 and then the winner of 2 and 3.
  23. Vito, Yianni, Burroughs, Taylor, Cox, Gable
  24. Last time, the surprise run was by the 9 seed at 65kg. This time, that is Nahshon Garrett. Maybe history could repeat itself? He's immensely talented. He made a world team at 61kg, but never had great results at 57kg... that cut looked brutal for him. He's only competed once at 65kg and that was 3 months ago. He's further from his injury now and should be in top form. If can add power and keep his speed at 65kg, I don't think it is crazy to think he could make a run. I expect whoever wins between Garrett and Ashnault to give Zain a test in the quarters, and I could see Ashnault struggling a bit the first match after weigh-ins.
  25. Colon as well. If this field competed at 60kg, he would probably be my pick. But think the cut might be a little tricky for him.
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