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CA_Wrestler

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Posts posted by CA_Wrestler


  1. 5 hours ago, cowcards15 said:

    I really don't (well I do but it purely has to do with gender) understand this whole "This woman couldn't beat this dude so she can't be ranked higher" thing. If that's the case this should just be a list of 97 and 125kg. John Smith isn't beating Zach Rey in a match. Rey has to be higher then. I keep seeing women are too new in this sport and have the "knowledge" of the men. Can't throw anyone out there before say 2000/2010 then since the sport has evolved quite a bit. But also women's competition isn't as good because there isn't as many "good" wrestlers in their world brackets. So now you have to go through each bracket anyone has medaled (or not) and see who the competition was to make sure it was worthy of that medal (or to excuse not placing). But also lower weights have more good guys so automatically they need a bump up over the heavier. 

    This is not a list of who is going to beat who. It's a list of who is the greatest (who has the most/better accomplishments). You can debate on Olympic vs World vs College vs injury vs retiring to coach vs whatever all you want. That's fair. Debate Gray vs Cael or Gable or Dake or Snyder. That's cool and valid. It's not valid to think Gray isn't in their class or potentially better because she is a woman. 

    This was  how I viewed this list.  Just based off of accomplishments.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Guys around here making their blood pressure rise and exploding blood vessels because they think this is some ABSOLUTE All-Time list that's set in stone by Flo.


  2. 7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

    Lol sure.

    So based on the list above, that would basically put them exactly the same except a Olympic Silver for Gray vs Bronze for Maroulis, and a World Silver for Maroulis vs Bronze for Gray.

    I guess that would technically put Gray above Maroulis, but as Lurker pointed out I think Maroulis needs bonus points for being the first.

    But interesting IMO that there’s 5 guys between them.  I’d say one argument for not putting men and women on the same list is it’s not really fair to the women because they don’t have college accomplishments.  But since that is obviously included I think I would put Snyder, Cael, and maybe Gable above Maroulis.

    Yeah, but the women actually do have college accomplishments. 

    The first, 4 time collegiate wrestling champions were...Victoria Anthony and then not too long after(same tournament)Helen Maroulis.  Both from the same university, Simon Fraser in Canada.

    The problem in the US is that although women compete in freestyle while in college, the skill level throughout all of women's collegiate wrestling isn't consistent across the board compared to mens wrestling in say NCAA Div 1.  I think a big reason for that is everybody grows up doing folk, then have to switch right over to freestyle unless the womens athletes have been competing on the US national freestyle circuits from cadet/junior/senior levels. 


  3. 5 minutes ago, jross said:

    Objectively on hardware, yes, Adeline is one of the all time greats. Subjectively, men and women's wrestling are not the same sport.  Same is true for other physical sports...

     

    There should definitely be a mens and womens list, but you know....


  4. 29 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

     

    To be fair guys, Helen did place in two out of those three WC's.  She took 5th in 2011, where one of those losses was to Yoshida, and she took 7th in 2013.  Adeline's DNP was a straight-up DNP.

    The other thing you fail to consider is level of competition.  Helen has always had Yoshida, Kawai, or another strong Japanese woman at her weight, whereas Adeline competes at heavyweight where the women are less skilled at there are few strong Japanese competitors.

    When I typed "DNP'd", that meant "did not podium" aka  no medal.

    But, I get what you're saying and YES I did consider level of competition.  Nobody is doubting that Helen competes at a weight where the skill and technique are much higher and has had better competitors.   That's a fact which can't be denied.  Adeline has been slightly more consistent, which is why I gave her a razor thin edge. 

    Helen was pinned twice by Yoshida.  Once in the finals(2012) and the other time was the year before in the round of 16(2011).  That's what prompted Valentin to tell Helen that he would train her when Valentin was with a rival wrestling club(TMWC).

    Helen also lost to 2012 Jr WC Chiho Hamada at the 2014 Senior WC in the semis.

    Everybody always complains about this person had a bad draw, that's why they didn't win. 

    If you're great like any of the great wrestlers we've seen past or present, you're the bad draw no matter what.

     

    Flo's rankings developed some chatter!


  5. 49 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

    Makes sense if Adeline's beef is with Flo putting Helen over her.  However, she's still crazy.  Helen has an Olympic gold over the second greatest female wrestler of all time.  Adeline does not have an Olympic gold.

    While that's true, Helen still has 3 WC DNPs...


  6. Who should really be ranked higher?

     

    They both started competing at the senior world championships the same year- 2011.

    Adeline

    -1 Olympic silver

    -1 Olympic DNP

    -6 WC golds(1 WC at a non-Olympic weight)

    -2 WC bronzes

     

    Helen

    -1 Olympic gold

    -1 Olympic bronze

    -3 WC golds(1 WC at a non-Olympic weight)

    -1 WC silver

    -1 WC bronze

    -3 WC DNPs

    I'd give the edge to Adeline at this point, but if Helen wins another WC(has to get through Kawai), then I would put her ahead. 


  7. 45 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

    Snyder is one of the most beloved freestyle wrestlers in the world. I would bet the farm that more people outside the US would watch this if they are able.

    One of the most beloved freestylers in the world?  Do you mean, Maryland, Ohio and Happy Valley?

    The only American I see and have seen that is universally beloved in wrestling and opposing countries has been JB.

     

     


  8. 19 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

    I suspect COVID is the determining factor for Japan and China.

    2017-2019, Dom had Okuno, Igarashi and Igarashi again at U23s.

    Covid definitely is the main reason why both countries didn't send anybody.  Japan didn't send a team to this year's Cadet and Junior World Championships also because of rising covid numbers and I'm pretty sure if their girls/womens teams went, their cadet and junior teams would have easily won the team titles and I think our junior team would have only won one title(Kennedy Blades).

    As far as Dom's matchups go this just proves my point, in 2017 Okuno was 18, not a vet on the senior circuit at at that time and she'd just won the senior world title.  Igarashi was 18 at the 2018 U23 World Championships as well, then of course 19 the next year.  Okuno was set to rule 53kg until Mukaida dropped for the Olympics and took that spot, but Fujinami is still 17 despite what the UWW website says(she turns 18 in less than 2 weeks).  Saki Igarashi has never been able to make the senior world team because of Mukaida, Okuno and this year, Tsugumi Sakurai at 55kg, so it's a good tournament to keep sharp, but like I've been saying, it's generally a tournament for wrestlers that can't make their county's Senior World Team.


  9. 21 hours ago, spladle08 said:

    Are they skipping this as well? What's with those guys giving sickness it's due respect? 
    Get out there and compete!!!!! 
    Dom on the team? No Clue of her age, I'd guess 22. 
    But checking on the girls team now. 

    It's because it's a tournament just to get international experience and it's not that important. 


  10. Though it might sound good, there's no way we're changing our college wrestling from folk to free or our boys youth/cadet/jr/hs to freestyle.  Old dudes would have heart attacks or complain so much that they'd die of high blood pressure.  Too much tradition behind folkstyle here and people would complain and say freestyle is boring compared to folkstsyle, the rules are confusing, a PA state title means more than a senior World or Olympic title, if it were folk instead of freestyle around the world, Zain would be a 1000 time senior world champ, etc....


  11. 15 hours ago, denger said:

    Except Russia's women were competitive. They were 7th out of 36, in the hunt for 3rd place team, put 4 in medal matches, and had 7/10 place top-10

    USA Greco was 18th out of 49, and 7/10 didn't win a single match. It's surprising to me how close USA is to Russia in combined scores. 

     

    I know, but that's Russia's lowest team score.  Had to compare it with something lol

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