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Posts posted by CA_Wrestler

  1. Now there is going to be a wrestleoff between 2016 Olympic champ, Sara Dosho and Miwa Morikawa for the Olympic spot at 68kg.

    There will also be a wrestleoff for the mens team at 74kg between Mao Okui and Keisuke Otoguro(Takuto's older brother).


    I had mentioned in some other post a while ago that Japan has had A LOT of siblings making their national/world teams over the years.

  2. 1 hour ago, Jim L said:

    I think you misunderstood my point. A D3 wrestler is as accomplished in wrestling as a brown belt is on BJJ. And a world champion in the opposite discipline would get beat by somebody who is relatively unaccomplished. 

    That's true. 

    There are and were BJJ guys that were blue belts that would beat a USAW National team member in BJJ.  Mainly the more accomplished ones who were Mundial(World) Champions like say, BJ Penn since more people would know him from the UFC.  He had only 1 year of BJJ traning and he placed 2nd at the Mundials in 1998 in the Blue Belt division.  He also was the first American to ever win the Mundial in the black belt division in 2000 only having 3 years of BJJ experience.

  3. 1 minute ago, Mokoma said:

    So I get what you are saying, but my question is then what is the point of taking the match?  What you are describing to me means they had zero chance to win, so why try?  

    Why not snap to a front headlock?  Something....anything...  What was their way to win the match?

    I guess they took the match for the same reason Ryan took the freestyle match.  Pride and not backing down.

  4. 10 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

    So you and CA_Wrestler seem to have some experience in both.  Why would Nickal nor Downey make any attempt to win the match about Ryan with a submission?  Like what’s the point in even accepting the match?  I’m not saying either would or could, but why not go for it.  If you have no chance in the 3rd and are down big, lots of inferior wrestlers with nothing to lose go for a big move like a headlock or cement mixer (ie Rohn in national finals).  Why wouldn’t they go for a takedown, throw legs and go for a RNC? Wouldn’t it be absolutely epic if they were able to submit Ryan this way?

    They aren't confident with any submission techniques, that's why they didn't really try anything.  If they tried and messed up, it could be game over. 

    I don't know the exact rules  they used and if they allowed leglocks, but there were several times Gordon could have locked one up easily, so I'm guessing they didn't allow them.

    For example...

    If they went for a takedown, they would literally be feeding Ryan a neck, arm or leg.  With a double, you're exposing your neck almost right into a guillotine choke.  Especially with a head outside double.  With a head inside double, you're still putting yourself at risk for a guillotine (or during the transition to the mat for an armbar, some kind of armlock/some funk position) where Ryan would get a leg lock with ease.  If they went for a single, it would have to be a really fast one to the outside to go behind.  Going for a single exposes you to all kinds of stuff because if your arms are extended and only holding one leg, that means a leg is free to help with another kind of submission.

    If you don't have a lot of submission grappling experience, wrestling and going for takedowns only really works against the less experienced grapplers/BJJ players that don't know how to deal with the pressure that wrestlers come with.  Once the belts start getting to brown, black or red, that stuff rarely works because there all so many different positioning tricks that you can only learn if you've been consistently on the mat in those situations.

  5. 1 minute ago, treep2000 said:

    I think this gets extended a bit.  

    Suppose you have a D1 All-American... let's go with Desanto for sake of argument.  He clearly likes to grapple, and has shown it in wrestling matches.  LOL!

    I propose that in a BJJ match, that many Blue belts would beat Desanto, easily (unless, of course, Desanto is himself a blue belt, which I don't believe he is).  

    However, after Desanto graduates, if he chose to go the BJJ route, I believe he could train and elevate his skills to be that of a black belt level in a few years, and compete effectively.  (seeing him against Musumeci would be awesome).  https://www.flograppling.com/video/6668651-michael-musumeci-jr-vs-seif-eddine-houmine-2020-european-jiu-jitsu-ibjjf-championship   

    Now... on the flip side.  I'm a middle aged, former wrestler, and hadn't been on the mat in 20 years.  I started training BJJ about a year ago.  I attend a highly regarded school.  Granted, we don't do a "ton" of work from our feet, but I have yet to be taken down by anyone that I've rolled with, all the way up through the Brown belts.  (yes... i'm still a newb, and should be getting my blue belt soon!).  What i'm saying is this... in a wrestling match, I'm 20 years removed and can still "out wrestle" the higher level (and much younger) belts at my school.   Where the wrestling stops and the BJJ takes over is where my mind gets blown... lol!

    This is like banging your head against a wall.  Almost nobody here will understand except you, me and some others who have done both.

  6. 40 minutes ago, Jim L said:

    Doe anyone here think that a top BJJ black belt could beat even an average D3 starter in wrestling match? 

    Yes it is D3, but these guys do train hard every day and are focused on a specific set of skills and moves that don't really translate to BJJ,  so unless the BJJ black belt is spending a good amount of time learning folkstyle skills (which would be a huge waste for them) I see the wrestler winning.

    At the same time, I would see almost any Brow Belt who is competing at a high level beating any national team member in BJJ.

    I guess I am contending that NCAA D3 = BJJ Brown Belt


    That wouldn't be possible for the D3 guy to be a BJJ Brown belt at that age unless he were consistently training since a kid and that means that there would be 0 time to practice wrestling.

    A top BJJ black belt would not be able to beat a D3 wrestler in a folkstyle or freestyle match because in order  to get to that level, they wouldn't be wrestling.  

    There are always a few very rare guys that just have the knack for BJJ and can beat higher ranked guys even when they don't have the experience.  A wrestler might almost always get superior position in a wrestling point of view, but sooner or later, they're going to get off balance and mess up.  Especially no no-gi.  With a gi, forget about it. 


  7. 3 hours ago, pamela said:

    Oh yah, didn't Icho start her Senior level career wrestling at whatever 62kg used to be (64kg?)?

    I am supremely bummed out that she won't be competing in Tokyo. What a treat it would be to see her and Helen go the Olympics!

    She started at 63kg, right in there!

    Yeah, it would have been great to see both of them go.  I have no doubt Icho would medal, maybe even win it all.  Hopefully Helen medals, but I'm not even sure where she'd stand if she is our rep since she hasn't been competing at all except for several times since her concussions.  Add to that she moved her training to Oklahoma with Okie State, but she won the Pan Am spot against Ragan, so hopefully she's going to be in peak form soon.


  8. 5 hours ago, pamela said:

    Thank you! I was hoping that Japan Wrestling might modify their Olympic Team rules, as posed in the OP but also because there might have been controversy behind Icho’s loss to Kawai. Is Icho retired?

    Also I think I saw on the UWW site recently that they are moving the Asian Qualifier next month from China to Kyrgyzstan.

    I saw Icho coaching at the Emperor's Cup, I can't remember who she was coaching though.  There's not really any point in her competing right now just because she can't really make the team since there's the Asian qualifier, then the Olympics.  If she went up to 62, I think she would beat Yukako Kawai, but that's a big jump even though she's still amazing.  She took 2 years off, didn't compete, then went 1-1 with  Risako Kawai and in the final match of theirs for the 2019 World team spot, Kawai beat Icho 3-3 on criteria. 

  9. On 7/8/2019 at 8:42 PM, pamela said:

    Aside from being a faulty process that puts world caliber talent out of competition for 2 years in a row (see @CA_Wrestler‘s post above), it will look bad because Icho couldn’t compete during the coaching abuse scandal and because Sakae still has power and clout politically even though he is no longer affiliated with Japan Wrestling, and it’ll reek of stonewalling Icho, which is something he actually has a history of doing.

    Hey pamela,

    So as far as the Japanese women's team goes, the Team USA article was correct.  Since both Kawai sisters locked up spots(57kg and 62kg) by medaling at the 2019 WCs.  Unfortunately, that does also mean that Icho is done.  Susaki didn't enter the Asian championships just because she didn't need to.  That's why they sent Igarashi(1x cadet, 2x Jr, 2x U23 WC).  Susaki is going to go to the Asian Olympic qualifier in a few weeks, but here's the major problem....it's supposed to be in Xi'an, China.  I haven't heard anything about them moving the location, but I don't see why they wouldn't.  Who would want to go to China to qualify the weight if there was a chance to catch the Corona virus?  I don't know, that just seems way too risky based on what's been happening there.  I really hope they move it somewhere else.  It would be plain stupid to keep the qualifier there.



    50kg- Will undoubtedly be Susaki because she'll qualify the weight and I'd pick her as the heavy favorite to win in Tokyo if the Olympics aren't cancelled.  Her toughest competition will be Yun, from China.  Stadnik was thanking the heavens Susaki wasn't there last year.

    53kg rep is Mayu Mukaida(2x WC, 2x silver, 1x Jr WC, 2x Cadet WC) who dropped down and beat her college teammate(2x WC, 1x Jr WC, 2x U23WC, 1x Cadet WC)) Haruna Okuno

    57kg rep is Risako Kawai (1x Olympic champ, 3x WC, 2x Jr WC, 1x Cadet WC)

    62kg rep is Yukako Kawai (1x silver, 1x bronze, 1x U23WC, 1x bronze cadet)

    68kg got qualified by Sara Dosho(she's had a bad shoulder injury the past few years) in 2019 by placing 5th, but she lost in the Emperor's cup in Dec.  Miwa Morikawa(1x Jr WC) beat Naruha Matsuyuki(1x Jr WC) 2-1 in the Emperor's Cup final, but Japan sent Matsuyuki to the Asian Championships last week where she placed 2nd.  No idea who the rep is going to be at the Asian qualifier.

    76kg rep is going to be Hiroe Minagawa Suzuki(1x Jr WC)


    Oh yeah....and on the mens side....Rei Higuchi(2016 Olympic silver, I mean robbed) beat Takatani at 57kg to be the Olympic rep.  He dropped down to 57 after not being able to beat Otoguro the past several years and he was actually up to 70kg at one point.


    That's it!

  10. On 2/10/2020 at 5:14 PM, BigTimeFan said:

    IMHO Spencer Lee’s level of dominance far exceeds Zahid’s. First of all, Spencer has only had eight offensive points scored on him at least five of which were escapes. His closest match was a win by a seven point margin. His next closest match was by a nine point margin and after that he won every other match by fall or at least a fifteen point margin. Only two of his thirteen matches made it to the third period. The problem is he’s wrestled exactly one top ten opponent. 

    By contrast Zahid has wrestled three top ten opponents but has had over sixty offensive points scored on him. Seven of his twenty wins have gone the distance and an additional five made it to the third period. His closed match was a one point margin and his second closest was a four point margin. The rest of his matches were bonus points but five of these were major decisions and not tech falls.

    In almost any other context these differences aren’t worth talking about but if you want to talk about true dominance, Lee’s record this year is to date far more impressive, at least to me. 

    All that said, none of this matters if either of them lose or if one of them has a lot more regular decisions vs top tier opponents.  As it happens this year the highest ranked guys at 125 are mostly not in the B1G but Lee has defeated most of them handily and his loss to Picc was during and off time. For what it’s worth I think it’s much more likely that Lee bonuses all his remaining competition than Zahid does  



    60 offense points against Zahid?  Those aren't actual earned takedowns and nearfalls or is Zahid letting guys up for escapes?  Except for a few matches, all of the scores the other guys have are from Zahid cutting them for 1 point multiple times per match to get another TD/nearfall.

  11. 12 minutes ago, de4856 said:

    Well I thought that if Fix had stayed on the gas a bit more he could've pulled it out in his Bronze medal match. I was disappointed with the tactics he employed in that match. 

    Gilman, kind of the same deal, I thought after spending some overseas, and having some good results at the tourneys he's been in, I thought that he would have been more offensive with some new attacks, but I thought he was kind of the same. 

    Colon, I said this about him before, he's just a tough dude, he's got that junkyard dog mentality, and with his defense that he can turn to his own scores, he's always dangerous. I will be looking forward to seeing how he does in April. 

    McKenna, pretty good performance but he is going to have to find a way to finish better if he's going to get to the next level. 

    Zain, he was kind of all over the place, and his Bronze medal match was pretty sloppy, hopefully he can clean it up. He's talented and tough, and can win matches at the World level, but if he is going to have a chance at a World medal or title, he's going to have to figure out to score and control these matches. 

    J.O. Good tourney, you can see that he is right on the cusp of it all, but he has to be able to hang for a full 6 minutes with the Barjang's of the World. 

    JG, he had a great tourney at the Alan's, I am not sure what happened here, unfortunately for him, I think that he's got a very tough uphill battle domestically for him at 74, but hat's off to him that he's out there trying. 

    Dake, well he was kind of just doing the minimum until the finals where he absolutely steam rolled his opponent. So maybe it's a weight cut thing, and the extra time gave him the much needed hydration/nutrition. But Dake is Dake, so it's him or JB going to Tokyo. 

    Massa, like Gilman had been overseas and had competed pretty well, not sure what happened today. But Massa although a very good wrestler, he also has a very tough task of making the team at this weight. 

    PD3, looks good, and I thought he was in solid control in that Bronze medal match until he tried a throw and threw himself on his back, fortunately it does seem that PD3's gas tank isn't the liability it had been years ago. 

    Dieringer, is good, and you can see that he has is very successful on international level, but with him losing to the Z Man makes me think that domestically he is on the outside looking in, maybe he can have a better performance in April. 

    Z Man, well I will just say it, he looks like he's going to be right in the thick of things come April. Very impressed with him today. He handled Erdin who is a very accomplished guy, so big feather in his cap. 

    Good breakdown

  12. 19 minutes ago, Idaho said:

    Yeah I see where you are coming from since Zahid is probably the best p4p in the country, but at the same time, if you are a "CA Wrestler" you know Colt and you also know that Colt welcomes the opportunity to wrestle with the best. I am sure he would have viewed it as a  good opportunity to see where he was with the best then go back to the room to work. 

    I do know Colt.  He's made a lot of progress since graduating from Poway and has gotten better, but Zahid teched him at the Pac 12 Championships last year.  It's always fun to see 2 guys from CA wrestle in D1 like Zahid vs Doyle, Zahid vs Anthony Mantanona, Anthony vs De La Riva(who has since transferred to NDSU), Anthony vs Anthony Mantanona for "Anthony" bragging rights, etc..

  13. 9 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

    I don't know.  If we're being pacific and saying that anyone at 125, then yes... I agree... nobody from Penn State, if they cut to 125, could beat Spencer Lee.


    If it is just a whoever shows up to wrestle style match, I think Nick Lee beats him(at 141).  J/S.

    Of course it would be at 125.  They have weight classes for a reason although I'm pretty sure he'd still beat RBY. 

  14. 4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

    OK, read the thread, nothing of substance as to why Nickal didn't wrestle.  I see there was some nice fresh hypocrisy on Nickal...choosing not to wrestle Snyder, though.  I remember all kinds of criticism, mostly from the Happy Valley contingent, for certain Iowa wrestlers for wrestling one dual match in a weekend, but not the next one.  Or Spencer for wrestling one day of a tournament but not the next.  However, Nickal wrestling one match and forfeiting his next match the same day....totally cool.  Weird how that happens.

    Plus they're also mad that Spencer would tech anybody PSU threw out there against him.

  15. 2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

    OK, read the thread, nothing of substance as to why Nickal didn't wrestle.  I see there was some nice fresh hypocrisy on Nickal...choosing not to wrestle Snyder, though.  I remember all kinds of criticism, mostly from the Happy Valley contingent, for certain Iowa wrestlers for wrestling one dual match in a weekend, but not the next one.  Or Spencer for wrestling one day of a tournament but not the next.  However, Nickal wrestling one match and forfeiting his next match the same day....totally cool.  Weird how that happens.


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