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Starocci in the semis - start around 6:45, Romero is trying to stand up and Starocci is literally sitting on his ankle

I mean if you don't want to "reward a lesser wrestler who simply doesn't have the strength, skill or technique to escape over a better wrestler who is keeping him under control," then no one should ever get called for stalling on top. I'd start with when RBY got hit for stalling in the finals...most blatant example starts around 6:05

So how does sitting on an ankle help in "working for a turn"?

You really don’t think the hook an ankle ride is stalling? LOL. It most certainly is. Just like the spiral (Marinelli) or double boots (Fix) if they don’t do anything with it.

It wouldn’t have required a total collapse though. If Beard made it 5 PSU champs and they got like 4 more points combined from Joe Lee/Kerk/Berge/Howard, they would have won if Iowa’s results didn’t change. I do think that would have been an all time great performance by PSU, but it wouldn’t have been a collapse by Iowa. The only one that really “collapsed” in terms of actual points vs projections was Marinelli, and many people thought that could happen anyway. Even if you think Beard winning is far-fetched, in theory they could have won with the combo of Beard/J. Lee/Berge/Kerk/Howard scoring an average of 3.1 more points each. I know Beard outperformed his seed but given how wide open 197 was he had the most upside of those guys IMO (leaving less points needed for the other guys), so even if he didn’t win he very realistically could have finished 3rd. That technically would have also impacted Iowa since if Beard could have beat the 26 seed he would’ve been in the semis, and even if he lost that he would’ve had Warner in the consi-semis (which still wouldn’t have been a collapse for him since he was seeded 5th), then Amine who he previously took to SV in the 3/4 match.

...except for the part about you being surprised it wasn't a blowout?

I don't think it's been confirmed that he's not wrestling/going to school next year

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gable either becomes a huge star in the WWE or he only lasts a year. I mean one of their most popular guys recently was some random dude with a beard whose catchphrase was “YES” so I feel like anything can happen. Gettjng back to the OP though, even though it was a joke it may be true. Maybe Ferrari goes to and then they’d have a built in rivalry. Them being a tag team might be even better.

This was before Howard and Beard had wrestled a varsity match, Starocci was coming off a loss to DJ Washington, and Nevills was their heavyweight. Flo’s rankings of course also famously included Brooks at #5 and Lee at #3. Tbar rightfully complained about those, but of course now is claiming “ranking services had Iowa with a 90 point victory!” Flo in particular has continually stated that rankings aren’t predictions and with Brooks especially I believe were picking him to win (they did have an infatuation with Rivera though, so might’ve legitimately thought Lee was #3). Anyone with a brain that had watched wrestling for the last 10 years (well, maybe except for the “greatest brain in wrestling”) knew that Iowa was basically maxed out with their rankings and PSU had upside, in addition to the knowledge that they always showed up on Saturday night, so it shouldn’t have been a surprise that it wasn’t a blowout. So yeah, PSU has the best coaching staff. Was anyone saying they didn’t?

I still think grayshirting in order to train pretty much full time at a school-affiliated RTC is gaming the NCAA system because in the case of Beard and Joe Lee it effectively gave them 2 redshirt years while still training for the most part with the team (and for that reason I don't I don't think the OTC is the same thing and don't have an issue with that). But you bring up good points. I'm honestly not sure how to negate the advantage either (or if we really "should" be trying to negate it), I just think something should be done to remove the gray area of RTC's as I doubt something similar would fly in most other sports. In order to not lose the advantages it gives to our international team, maybe it's just literally removing the gray area and actually making them officially part of the school? Allow currently enrolled students (and of course graduates and "resident athletes") to train there without restrictions, maybe even still allow high school students to train there (edit: although I kinda feel like there should be more restrictions on HS aged kids training there too, or else we'll probably see more stories of families moving to the town of a particular college), but restrict those that have graduated high school but are not currently enrolled (unless taking an Olympic redshirt). Yes you'd have to come up with a solution for guys that don't go to college, but could probably even allow that too but then penalize them if they later enroll there. I'm not sure if there's much more that you can do without severely impacting our international styles, so I don't think there's anyway to take away much of the advantage PSU in particular has by having an RTC that's so much better than everyone else's. But I do think limiting grayshirts training there will help, since currently they're using the RTC as a place to stash them while juggling scholarships/starting spots.

I think it would “help” NCAA wrestling. I don’t know what exact restrictions to put in, but while I know RTC’s are good for the US’s international wrestling, I think there has to be way to maintain that while removing or at least reducing the gray area that they create for NCAA wrestling.

All Ivies have kids take years off school for injuries and such. But to my knowledge Cornell is the only one that sends most of their recruiting classes to community college first. You really don't think Koll is trying to sell the kids on doing that? Obviously he's not "forcing" them to do it, and yeah it makes sense if they want to get some credits out of the way while also training as a traditional redshirt would. But as I said in my prior post I think it's more of an RTC issue. If the grayshirts weren't allowed to train at the RTC (or there was at least some sort of restriction) then I think it's a lot tougher sell.

I never said it wasn't within the rules. I just think it can be considered "gaming the system." I'm pretty sure the NCAA doesn't "intend" for guys not yet enrolled at the university that's very closely attached to the RTC (yet somehow not officially affiliated despite official university coaches also being the official coaches of the RTC) to live in town and train pretty much full-time at the RTC. I think it's more of an RTC issue honestly. Put more restrictions on what the RTC's can do with high school - college aged kids and I think the grayshirting gets greatly diminished.

I’d argue that the grayshirt/redshirt combo that PSU did with Beard and Joe Lee could be considered “gaming.” I don’t mind one or the other, but both seems like a bit much. Some would say Cornell sending most of their recruits to a community college is “gaming” and I’d say it is for the Ivy League, but it’s only because they can’t redshirt. It’s funny that Koll would say guys should be done in 4 years though...

Maybe Darmstadt has better academic credentials than just “Honors/AP student in HS,” but it usually takes a lot more than that for non-athletes to be accepted into Ivy League schools...

He is in the portal, but I do think he was originally entered at EIWA’s but then ruled out due to covid reasons

Why is it a disadvantage for guys to start their careers after 5 years of college? Do you mean international wrestling career? Or “regular” career? I think someone pointed out earlier that many non-athletes take 5+ years to finish undergrad too, not to mention many athletes probably take 5 years too since it allows them to space out their courseload and balance it with a D1 wrestling schedule. I don’t have a problem with allowing redshirts simply from the competition side either. Many guys do “need” a redshirt in order to successfully transition to D1 wrestling. But I’ll agree that not everyone “needs one,” honestly I feel like we are seeing more and more true freshmen wrestle and hopefully this free year helped show that many of them are actually ready right away. I think your suggestion is basically penalizing the Mormon missions though if they wouldn’t be able to compete in 4 NCAA’s...

Tom Brands

If anything he’s just putting an asterisk on the individual titles. Even if they did what he said they don’t win the team title. But Yianni and maybe Dean could’ve taken an individual title from PSU.

Just thought of it from the Cornell thread but Dean will be a 6th year junior, and Arujua and Mekhi Lewis will be 5th year sophomores.

4 finalists and 7-8 AA’s is believable but would’ve required no one underperforming, and they wouldn’t have beaten Iowa. Yianni of course likely does make the finals, Arujua too but we’d have to assume Glory is there as well so would have had to beat him. Dean has losses to Venz and Deprez and Darmstadt has taken a bunch of losses too so neither of them would be a sure thing. Did Koll really say people should “wrestle for 4 years and move on? I’m sure Yianni etc would have used the “free year” if they could. And since we’ve been talking about age recently I believe all 3 of Arujua, Dean and Darmstadt will be 7 years out of HS once they’re seniors. Vito and Dean grayshirted their first year, Olympic redshirted in 2020 then I believe their whole team grayshirted this year after the Ivy’s decision, so Vito will be a 5th year sophomore and Dean a 6th year junior. Darmstadt didn’t do an ORS, but did do the initial grayshirt and 2021, I believe he may have grayshirted in 2019 when he was injured as well but not sure.

I agree, I don’t think he would’ve won in his current state, but I’m sure he doesn’t think that. It’s still D1 wrestling though so if the concern is further injury risk I don’t think it’s all that different. But I thought the “medical experts” were basically saying he couldn’t hurt it any worse? So really IMO the only real reason to withdraw is so that he can start the rehab process sooner for 2022 NCAA’s.

4-5 years from now the “7th year” won’t be that uncommon. Iowa is just getting flack for it since they have guys that are seniors now that will be that next year. In addition to the guys already mentioned: Phillippi will be a 6th year junior next year If Beard and Joe Lee use the free year they will be 7th year seniors since they grayshirted + redshirted. Seth Nevills will too if he takes a regular redshirt. Basically if any freshman this year uses all 5 years but takes a regular redshirt then either a medical or Olympic redshirt, they’ll be a 7th year senior. People need to get over it, because it’s not going to be that rare.

So is your argument still that it’s OK to wrestle on 1 torn ACL, but not 2? If so, that’s dumb. However I am surprised by this decision since it certainly seems more focused on Iowa and not the Olympics. If he could wrestle at NCAA’s, he could wrestle at OTT’s IMO, so the only explanation for pulling out is I assume to get surgery now so that he’s back for NCAA’s next year (and the main reason to not redshirt next year is to try to repeat as team champs).

I know you’re just a troll but it’s not “2 or 3 extra years of school,” it’s only the 1 “free year” that everyone that competed this year is getting that’s different than how it’s been for years. Redshirts aren’t new. If ISUChip’s post is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) then it’s actually teams like PSU that had lot of young guys this year that will have to do more juggling 4-5 years from now when all of those guys are “super duper seniors.” oh and pay your debts