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Icemeister

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  1. Except Cejudo actually competed as a high school wrestler there, winning Colorado high school state championships his junior and senior years. That isn’t the case for the others you mentioned . Agree, though, that he is primarily a transplant and probably shouldn't be on Colorado's list.
  2. It remains to be seen how his career plays out, but Cohlton Schultz may need to be added to that list. Certainly his accomplisments during high school are more impressive than anyone else's on the list. Ryan Deakin may eventually deserve some consideration, too. Also, I know that Arizona (and apparently California) claim Henry Cejudo, but Cejudo did graduate from high school in Colorado, where he won his last two high school state campionships. So perhaps he makes the list, too?
  3. The four on South Dakota's Mount Rushmore would be Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Lincoln...... Oh, you mean South Dakota's four best ever wrestlers and not the mountain in the Black Hills? Here's what that list looks like (if the Scherr twins can share a single spot on the mountain, which I think should be OK with them, since they did share a womb together): 1) Randy Lewis - 4-time all-american, 2 time NCAA champion, 2-time olympian, olympic gold medalist 2) Lincoln McIlravey - 4-time NCAA finalist, 3-time NCAA champion, 3-time world medalist, olympic bronze medalist 3a) Bill Scherr -- 3-time all-american, NCAA champion, 5-time world medalist, world champion, olympic bronze medalist 3b) Jim Scherr -- NCAA champion, 2-time world silver medalist, olympian, executive director USA wrestling, USOC CEO 4) Dennis Koslowski - 2-time olympian and olympic bronze and silver medalist (greco-roman) Honorable Mention: Brock Lesnar -- 4-time all-american, NJCAA champion, NCAA champion, UFC champion, WWE champion, and more money in the bank than the others combined. :-)
  4. Cael and Holker make the cut because their collegiate wrestling careers spanned into the 2000's. Ojai and Fehlburg's careers were well before that, so they need to come off the list. As a two-time NCAA finalist (with the second coming in 2000), Cody Sanderson deserves consideration. However, Matt Brown was also a two-time national finalist, winning a national championship his senior year. In fact, had he not been sitting behind Ed Ruth his redshirt freshman year, Brown would quite possibly have been a 4-time All-American. Therefore, Utah's list should look like this: Cael Sanderson (4X Champ, 4X AA) Matt Brown (1X Champ, 3X AA) Aaron Holker (1X Champ, 3X AA)
  5. Hmm..... I guess we each have our own unique perspectives. While there were a few close, exciting matches, I thought overall this was one of the more boring, and certainly more frustrating, finals in recent years. It certainly didn't live up to last year's finals in terms of overall excitement. The fact that the team race was completely decided before the finals was even underway, probably contributed somewhat to that. And the expected excitement from Penn State's two Hodge candidates turned out to be somewhat of a dud. But I think the biggest issue might have been all the stoppages. The controversial calls and annoying reviews really were frustrating and a major drag on the overall pace and action of the evening. It took forever to get through the 133 and 141 matches. For those who aren't hard core wrestling fans, and even for those who are, something really needs to be done with how reviews are handled. All of the brick throwing needs to stop. I agree with those who have said that if you challenge a call and it's not overturned, your wrestler should get a one point deduction. I think that change would significantly reduce the amount of challenges we currently see. I also think that reviews should be conducted by an independent party or panel (rather than the refs who are officiating the match). That's probably not practical in all situations, but certainly that could be and should be done for the NCAA Championship Finals. Finally, I'm still scratching my head on what a takedown is and isn't. We had three controversial takedown rulings in the finals, twice in the 141 match and once at 174. In each case the review upheld the original call. However, that wasn't the case in the Nolf/Hidlay semifinal or the Deakin/Young fifth place match. In both of those cases overturning the original call resulted in more controversy than had they upheld it. It's possible that Nolf never had 3 points of contact once Hidlay was behind him, but there definitely didn't appear to be sufficient evidence for that to overturn the original call made on the mat. And the reversal of Deakin's takedown on Young as time expired in regulation was even more egregious. The video clearly showed that Deakin had a takedown well before time expired, yet the 2 points he was initially awarded were taken off the board after review. If we're gong to have a review process, we need to make sure that reviews get it right -- and most importantly, that reviews minimize controversy, rather than create more of it.
  6. The Scherr twins were certainly two of the very best wrestlers ever produced by the state of South Dakota -- a state that has only about 6% of the population of Pennsylvania. Bill and Jim were both NCAA champions and each won multiple world medals (including a world freestyle Gold by Bill). However, as good as they were, I wouldn't rank the Scherrs above Randy Lewis or Lincoln McIlravy, who each won multiple NCAA championships and Olympic freestyle medals (Gold for Lewis and Bronze for McIlravy). Definitely not at the same level as those mentioned above, but undoubtedly the most famous wrestler produced by South Dakota is Brock Lesnar. But unless we're talking WWE, I'd go with Lewis and then McIlravy as South Dakota's greatest wrestlers.
  7. Reiff was a 3X South Dakota state wrestling champ in high school, but didn't wrestle his senior year, opting instead (as I recall) to early enroll at Iowa. Sounds like his decision to forgo wrestling for football was a good one, as he recently signed a $59M contract ($26M guaranteed) with the Vikings in free agency.
  8. I agree that it's not shocking that three really good wrestlers from that region are LDS, but I think you may be missing the point. Let's take religion out of it, and for a moment just go with geography as you've suggested. Doesn't logic tell us that it would be highly likely that some (or certainly at least one) of the winning American wrestlers involved in the most noteworthy wrestling matches of all time would come from states that historically produce the country's best wrestlers? Yet, for arguably the most famous three matches in American history, that wasn't the case. They didn't come from Pennsylvania or Ohio or any of the other hot bed wrestling states. They came from three states (Oregon, Utah, and Wyoming) that combined produced only 2% of the qualifiers for this year's NCAA Division 1 Championships (5 from Oregon, 2 from Utah, and 1 from Wyoming). In the context of these three most noteworthy matches, that statistic by itself is pretty remarkable. But then when you also factor the religion element in, recognizing that only 4% of Oregon's population is LDS and only 9% of Wyoming's population is LDS, the odds of the winning wrestlers in these three uniquely significant matches being LDS is incredibly low -- and that's what makes that factoid such an interesting and crazy coincidence.
  9. For the record, I don't think the fact that they are all Mormon has much to do with it. It's just a crazy coincidence that I find interesting (and assumed others might, too). In my opinion, it would be much less of a crazy coincidence if they were all from Pennsylvania or all from Iowa or Oklahoma. After all, Utah isn't exactly considered the hot bed of US wrestling. And for the record, only Cael is from Utah. Rulon is from Wyoming and Larry Owings grew up in Oregon.
  10. IronChef, I think that's a pretty good list. We could debate the order and perhaps add a few to that list -- I'm thinking that Blubaugh vs Habibi in the 1960 Olympics and Dake vs Taylor in the 2013 NCAA finals might belong for what they represented at the time, but those four are all pretty huge and I would be hard pressed to come up with another match that represents a more noteworthy or well known match than those. Given the current relative status of women's wrestling versus men's in this country, it might seem generous to include the Maroulis over Yoshida match, but that one will probably become even more significant in time with the growth of women's wrestling. It's interesting how time and perspective plays a roll here. If Spencer Lee goes on to become a multiple-time NCAA and Olympic champion, his match with Austin DeSoto probably makes a future list like this. An interesting factoid regarding your short list of the all time most noteworthy matches...... All three of the (male) winners in those matches (Larry Owings, Cale Sanderson, and Rulon Gardner) share the Mormon faith! Pretty interesting when you consider that Mormons represent only 2% of the US population.
  11. With the current top headlines / articles on Intermat being "Number 1 recruit Lee suffers first high school loss" and "15 years ago: Cael concludes perfect college career", it got me thinking about what are the most noteworthy or famous wrestling matches ever in American history? (Not necessarily what were the best or most entertaining matches ever, but what were the most significant in terms of circumstance and outcome?) Certainly at a high school level, Austin DeSanto's upset of Spencer Lee has to be near the very top; and at the collegiate level, Cael's final match in the 2002 NCAA championships would also have to rank at or near the very top. No doubt Larry Owing's upset of Dan Gable would be right up there, too. What about others? In what order would you rank them? And what about at the International level? What matches stand out there as being most noteworthy for what they represented?
  12. The following Denver Post article discusses that final match of Tom Clum's high school career and how he moved on from that last second defeat. It may have been a shocking defeat, but it certainly wasn't a devastating one for Tom, whose words and actions demonstrated a better perspective on wrestling and on life than most of the fans watching that night. http://www.denverpost.com/2009/02/18/wrestlings-shocker-8-years-later/ I suspect that Spencer Lee, just like Tom Clum (and Dan Gable), will also move past this shocking loss just fine....
  13. The Kokesh vs Storley rivalry (and friendship) goes back a lot further than the past three years. These two first started wrestling each other back in the 2nd and 3rd grade of elementary school. They even spent time at each other's homes / farms growing up. It was only fitting that they finished their college careers wresting each other one last time. I'm sure their only regret is that it wasn't for the NCAA D1 championship. For those who are interested, the link below is to a recent Sioux Falls SD newspaper article discussing their friendship and history battling each other growing up. http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/2015/03/20/epic-wrestling-rivalry-ending-ncaa-finals/25104053/
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