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Posts posted by NotReady

  1. Yup because everyone equates Burnett's international success with his tenure at Navy rather than his run with our past Olympic Teams that produced big results.


    I'll chalk this complaint up to lack of understanding the roles of these coaches and how they worked with the National Team.


    Not to mention how different coaching at a service academy (at a time of war no less) is than coaching at any other college.

  2. Nice Virginia Tech mention...haha


    It will be interesting to see how this all plays out as Ramos is out the door.  Like Ramos said, Dennis was pretty close to going to Blacksburg with Zadick and St. John and ended up getting a great offer in the 23rd hour. 


    If I'm Storniolo, I've already reached out to Tony. Wonder if Illinois has room?


    Also, wonder what drove Brands to make that offer to Dennis. Best wishes, middle finger to VT, a mix of the two?

  3. The guy is pretty legitimate.  I'm not an ace at submissions or BJJ, so about the only thing I can do well is control from the top position.  When I first started he was able to sweep me or catch me off balance, but I've learned how to mostly avoid that now.  There's a few other guys who are pretty big and strong, and I'm not very strong myself, but strong enough to be able to hold them off.  There was a young guy who was there a lot, he wrestled in college and we were pretty even against each other, but he got busy with school and doesn't have time anymore.  I think what annoys some of them is that they pull to guard but can't really do anything because I know enough now feel wise to avoid leaving my arm or head out in a dangerous place for them to grab onto it and twist it or something.  I rarely try to pass or try what they consider a basic one, or use the can opener a lot.  One of the purple belt guys in there hates it because he says I don't really do anything other than sit in his guard, avoid getting tapped and don't try to pass.  The last time he didn't pull guard I took him directly into side control and held him between there and knee on belly for the whole round.  He really didn't like that.  I'm not saying I'm a great competition grappler or anything either. 


    As far as people from the school competing, they seem to do pretty well.  True I don't know enough about the different tournaments or who's in them.  I did ask about competing once and at what level the instructor thought I should go, because I have no idea where I really stand, and he said I should go advanced/expert without a gi but in a gi he said going to compete in a blue belt division wouldn't be out of the question.  As far as I know his black belt is legitimate and his lineage and affiliation is legitimate.  If you want to look into it yourself PM me and I can give you his name. 


    The people there are usually very nice, it's not strict and formalized like some BJJ places I've heard about.  I think part of it is you can't really run practices like a wrestling practice intensity wise, because like you said, people who aren't there to compete, would get turned off by it and not stick around very long. 


    I get your frustrations. They are pretty common for wrestlers coming into jiu jitsu. From what you describe in sparring, I think a comparison to wrestling might make sense. Imagine if a really big and strong jiu jitsu player came to a wrestling practice. During live goes on the feet, he avoids ties, circles away, and doesn't take any shots. On the mat, he clams up on bottom and doesn't try to escape. On top, he will throw legs in and can ride you out, but doesn't try to turn.


    That's basically what rolling with a raw or relatively new wrestler in BJJ feels like. Wrestlers hate stalling and so do jiu jitsu players, stalling just looks a bit different in each sport. I think coaches in either sport would rather see someone in practice get pinned/submitted/scored on trying to score themselves rather than stalling.


    So, don't worry about getting swept or tapped. Try to pass, play bottom, pull guard yourself. I think that will make the sport a lot more enjoyable for you and your partners. 

  4. Brent Metcalf would be the culture shock and change MSU desperately needs.


    Roger Chandler may have different thoughts and methods than Coach Minkle, but he was on that staff for a very long time. He appears to be as much a part of the mindset that has been established in the Spartan program as the former HC.


    Seems like Chandler's appeal is his ability to convince others that he was held back by Minkle? Okay, but what does it say about someone that they would stick around and deal with that for 18 years?

  5. Starting on the knees is the thing that I absolutely hated the most.  It's stupid because guys just jump to guard right away and play the who can flop to their back the fastest because they can't handle neutral.


    When I first started BJJ ages ago, I'd get takedowns so easy on guys because I'd stand up just to be in neutral position.  Of course then when the instructors would spar with me, they'd insist that I start from the knees because they didn't want to get taken down or thrown.  I'd tell them-If you got into a fight on the street, would you be fighting from your knees or your feet?


    Well, luckily BJJ is not MMA, and MMA is not a street fight.


    When you wrestled, were strikes involved? Why not? If you got into a fight in the street, wouldn't the other guy be trying to hit you?

  6. The worst excuse for this is when they say starting on the knees is to avoid injuries due to takedowns.


    I've actually seen lots of beginners get hurt in class and in competition when they start on the feet. They don't know not to post their hands out, where not to step, how to sprawl right. It sounds crazy to wrestlers but I've seen it enough to take it seriously.


    Starting on the knees makes sense for beginners basically as training wheels to learn the proper reactions, and for those with limited mat space. Check out Erik Paulson's DVD on takedowns from the knees if you are curious. 

  7. Appreciate the reply.


    To answer those 3 questions, I actually don't know what he has done competition wise.  He did compete in a catch wrestling tournament placed 2nd, but I take him at his word.  I have rolled with him a number of times and have only come close to submitting him maybe twice.  And I think it's because he allowed me to get into a position where that was possible.  I have gone neutral against him when nobody else was there maybe 2 or 3 times and he's pretty solid, extremely strong.  He also has about 60-70 lbs on me too.  He did throw me from a position that I normally am pretty good from.  As far as what his students have done, apparently we've done well competing.  There's a bunch of medals hung up out front so I see them anytime I go in there.  His lineage as an instructor, from what he's said is legitimate.  He mentioned who they're affiliated with/under and it's legitimate.  I have no reason to question his black belt at all. 


    One of the problems I seem to face is that few people even from the knees will want to do anything but pull guard.  One guy says it's just easier than fight me for the takedown because the few times he's done that he winds up in his guard anyway.  The assistant guy who sometimes teaches on his own actually has us do takedown drills from the feet, but I've never rolled with him before.  He's in pretty good shape, but the only people I've seen him go live against are guys smaller than him or people who aren't really explosive enough to aggravate whatever injury he has.  I think it's his back.  Part of it too is I don't think some of the people who train there appreciate the wrestling attitude.  One guy flat out just refuses to ever roll with me because the one time we did I attacked him with stuff he'd never seen before, since he never wrestled.  He said I was "being too rough" and was afraid I'd hurt him.  I know a few other people don't like to roll with me, probably for similar reasons. 


    The instructor has had me show a few things in the past, but seems less interested now.  A few times he's said for people to just do what he's teaching and not try to change it even if we think we know better, which is a not so subtle jab at me for helping one guy correct his positioning on a sit out drill.  It's like they have the right idea on these things, which is good, but they don't really understand the proper way to do them.  Like they just do the sit out, but don't move the hips out and away, and they don't explain why you're supposed to do that or just ignore that part completely.  Or if somebody is in a base position, none of them can break down a good wrestler from there.  They throw the legs, or try anyway without any real understanding of why you're supposed to keep your hands under the elbow, or even basic hand/wrist control from the top.  And then they accuse me of "wrestling stuff" when it takes me all of 2 seconds to reverse them to their back because they don't know how to maintain control from the top. 


    I can say one thing that did bug me and I never said anything, was rolling with the instructor once I kind of turtled up in the base position.  And he wasn't having much luck breaking me down.  So he's trying a bunch of stuff, pulling on my neck, shin across the calf, and I'm just scooting forward, not trying to escape or anything.  So finally he realizes I'm not really trying to get out or improve position, so he jumps on top of me with both knees in my back and starts trying to reach for my head to pull me over or something.  And he's not a small guy, he's probably about 280?  Fortunately I'm not small either, but it was annoying and it did hurt, but it wasn't really necessary. 


    Dude, you sound like a nice guy, so I'm not trying to be a jerk, but from what you describe, the gym you are at and the instructors are not very good. Seems like you are trusting and take what they say and present as face value, and just my two cents, but I get the feeling they are taking advantage of that with you and others.


    There are so many random, small BJJ tournaments, let alone "catch" tournaments where there are so few competitors you automatically get a medal, even without having to win a match. Or just win one match to get a medal. You could rack up an "impressive" display pretty quickly. So, don't take that presentation as an automatic sign of legitimacy. Somebody could display all their PeeWee wrestling medals at the front of their gym and that would look impressive to the untrained eye too. But what if they had no State medals, or anything beyond that?


    Some affiliations in jiu jitsu can be bought and sold quite easily, with no quality control. The seller gets money, and the buyer gets legitimacy - but the students get the short end.


    In jiu jitsu, technique is king. If the only person that can "out technique" you is 60-70 pounds heavier than you that's not a good sign. The other thing about jiu jitsu is, not everyone competes. That's so different than wrestling. In wrestling, you spar with competition intensity because everyone competes. In jiu jitsu, you have to learn how to roll with competitors differently than you would casual practitioners. It would basically be like rolling with a middle school kid the same way you do a college wrestler. Jiu jitsu rooms are much more diverse in skill level, background, talent, etc than a wrestling room, which is generally fairly homogenous. If people claim to be "competitors" at a gym, but complain that you go too hard, that's another bad sign. Some BJJ gyms are very competition focused, others not so much. You'll never find a wrestling club that "doesn't compete".


    The guard pulling thing can be annoying for wrestlers, but as long as guard pulling is not penalized in bjj competition, people would be dumb NOT to do it. Wrestling has 1 not 2, the guard pull in BJJ is basically 0 not 2. It is what it is, learn to pass guard and love that game is my only advice. That's still not an excuse for many gyms to never start from the feet, or do so very rarely. Especially around 180 pounds and up, takedowns decide lots of matches in bjj.


    Like I said, I'm not trying to come off too harsh, but as long as you were respectful in the way you roll or offer advice, you should not have been rebuked or cast off the way you were. A bjj gym is lucky to have someone with extensive wrestling experience, but some instructors are threatened by that since it shows a gap in their skill set. There's a lot of fog and mirrors in jiu jitsu, and some folks cling to the mystique they create for themselves. 

  8. I just re-read NotReady's post again.


    The guy who teaches/owns the place I'm training at is a legitimate BJJ black belt and I don't know if he has one in Judo as well but he has some experience.  He's a skilled grappler.  You can say what you will but he does have legitimate skill.  As far as where or what he's competed in, I don't know.  The other guy helping him, I have no idea.  I think he's either a purple belt or a brown belt in BJJ.  He doesn't roll much because he has some kind of injury, so he only occasionally drills.  There's another guy who comes in who just got a black belt, but he hurt his knee so he hasn't been seen for a while. 


    I think one of my biggest problems is that there's very little of anything done in neutral.  Almost every technique we are taught, except for the rare takedowns, is on the mat.  When we actually go live we start on the knees and don't come up to standing.  The takedown he taught us is basically a watered down version of an arm drag to a high C and finish by doubling off.  Maybe as somebody said, in junior high you can get away with staying right in front of somebody, but against anyone decent you're going to get big brothered over because you're attacking somebody at their most powerful and stable point.  I kind of wonder whether I should tell these guys any of this or not.  It's not that I know better, it's just what high level coaches will teach you, guys who've won NCAA titles and things like that.  I just want them to be able to do better in competition, and not worry about getting some kind of certification in catch wrestling. 


    Re-read your OP, and this one, so I think maybe I took the opportunity to go on a tangent about catch wrestling than try to answer your question. Sorry about that.


    To your point, I think 3 questions need to be asked to determine the "legitimacy" of a BJJ school or the curriculum it focuses on, to be precise 1) what has the coach accomplished in competition 2) what have his students accomplished in competition 3) what is the lineage of the instructor. 


    Now, legitimacy and a school you enjoy are two different things. Taco Bell might not be "legitimate" Mexican food, but many people love it.


    Barring injuries, instructors should roll with their students. PARTICULARLY if the instructor and/or the students are not actively competing. And, this is just my opinion, but that includes live goes starting on the feet.


    It's pretty hard for an instructor to gauge the ability of their students without rolling with them. If your instructor rolls with you, from the feet, he would catch on that you have something to offer there. Now, if you are scoring, making him work - a good jiu jitsu instructor will ask you to show him what you did, and probably ask you to show the class as well. That said, even if he is just watching, he should be able to notice this and make use of your particular skill set.


    All that aside, if people at your school want to compete, they need to start on the feet to learn how to pull guard. Once you hit a brown belt level, perhaps even purple, if you just sit with no grip fighting, some folks will pass or pull before you hit the mat.


    I'm not trying to attack your instructor or the school. In some ways, takedowns have to be modified for BJJ/MMA/Grappling from wrestling. One example being head position on a double, being aware of the guillotine. That said, good grappling is good grappling and bad technique is bad technique, for the most part.


    Anyhow, hope that helps. Just something to consider.

  9. Riky Lundell is a Grappling coach, Ricardo Liborio was the USA Grappling national coach. Randy Couture has also experience in Grappling and Catch Wrestling. Grappling is a very open style with techniques from Bjj to Luta Livre.

    Grappling is popular in Russia and Europe. Now Iran, Pakistan and India have a national Grappling program.


    You have to be trolling. Ricky is a BJJ black belt under Pedro Sauer. Ricardo is a BJJ black belt. Randy is a folk/greco wrestler.


    Just like there are MMA coaches, there may be "grappling" coaches - but nobody trains "MMA" - that is a rule set, not a style.

  10. If you want a submission WRESTLING style with a decent standup you can try Grappling. Two points takedowns, three points throw and -1 if you jump in close guard...





    Barnett is an active fighter and catch wrestler who won a world title in the nogi champion. He isn't a full time coach.


    Who teaches "grappling" - the same gyms where people train UFC?


    Find a BJJ instructor that wrestled free/folk/greco or did judo.


    Sambo is also totally legit as a combined grappling art, although most people in the US assume sambo is like 100% leglocks, which is not how its done in the Former Soviet Union. 

  11. It just seems like they have a lot of unnecessary motion or wasted movement and a lot of their technique seems to be geared towards people who are very strong.  Like the arm drag setup from the collar tie, why extend all the way out just to come back down to the wrist?  It seems like such a wasted motion.  I asked one of the instructors and he said that was how they were taught and they weren't going to deviate from it because that was how they had been taught to do it.  It seems inefficient, like lifting somebody in a double leg head on instead of looking for an angle and trying to use leverage to finish instead of strength. 


    The guy in the video link wrestled for the Air Force, it says on the catch wrestling website he was a 3x All Air Force team member and lists his coach.  The only results of his for wrestling I could find were the military dual meet championships from a few years ago. 


    Their technique is different because of 1) trying to look different for marketing and 2) being untested in competition.


    With factor 1, that HAVE to do it differently, because otherwise it would look just like BJJ, or Judo, so there goes their marketing angle.


    With factor 2, it's kind of like how you see certain moves taught and executed in JV Wrestling that are very rare or very different at NCAAs.

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