jp157

What’s more of note is Sidakov is one of the best at using his length to keep Burroughs where he wants him. Sidakov can actually keep Burroughs there whereas most can’t. I would love if folkstyle went to passivity instead of traditional stalking in neutral though.. Cause apparently, even one your athlete is either jacking up underhooks and looking for upper body or pulling the head properly, and the other guy is backing up to the edge and literally shuffling on the line, straight legged a$$ up, and just trying to block off shots.. my athlete was apparently stalling cause “we didn’t shoot Enough.. eye roll . We won the match, but god bless that ref was obsessed with “shooting”

Plenty did. And/or rolled their eyes like it wasn’t actually a good thing. Or now they say Disingenuous things like “why hasn’t participation magically increased already, I thought the 2pieve was to supposed to do that” I’m not saying any of this flippantly or because I’ve only encountered one person say such things. I’ve encountered and seen this sort of thing as a competitor coach and on here. I knew that daring to utter such things would get dragged down into people quibbling over minutiae instead of looking at the actual overall point. I knew the reaction I would get from some, using the example I just did. I know I could be more tactful. But with the Covid and the ramifications, I think anything but brutally honest looks at the sport, including race and how it’s presented, are pointless

Shrug. It was an enlightening conversation. React as you will Edit: though the gospel comment while low key is a little much.

Do you understand how hard many more than is comfortable to admit even with those changes went, kicking and screaming, and still grumble about it? Im not saying they should be looking. I’m saying they’re 20 years too late in finally implementing much of this stuff and actually expanding outside the traditional avenues. It’s not just the micro level stuff. It’s the macro. I had a very enlightening conversation once with a football coach from the south. He had coached in college. Ran his H.S. team like a division I college team. And had been around a lot of wrestling. Talked about things like how wrestling is really perceived, how small it really is compared to bb or fb. How it’s honestly quite amusing when many wrestling coaches whine about always getting screwed because we didn’t do something nearly on the scale those big sports did. We didn’t and don’t put our people into admin or into athletic commissions. Not on the scale of and not for as long as they have. Or how he couldn’t understand wrestling coaches who whined about not knowing how they would pay for a girls coaching stipend. He asked if we were so collectively stupid that we couldn’t understand that we could begin to use Title IX in our favor now.

The trend has been towards upper middle class.

All of those things are magnified when trying to spread the sport outside it’s usual demographic. Add in wrestling’s obsession with being the angry small man in the room. So it comes across as a psychotic sport that will get kids hurt, unnecessarily long tournaments due to poor management. Now I understand many of these points can be quibbled, nit picked, and yada yada till the cows come home. I’ve also been around this on both ends of the spectrum on this issue. It’s based off experience. Looking through sport data, general trends, and a lot of experience growing the sport in non traditional areas. Shrug, at this point. The sport is shrinking. Quite frankly even if you want to say I’m making it up. It doesn’t change how the sport is perceived by most of that population. Wrestling has to stop saying and doing the same ole things and hoping for a different result. And stop acting like we are owed anything

You actually helped make my point whether you realize it or not. Especially because them “wanting To” is massively affected by how the sport presents itself. Not just to kids, but to parents. And “wrestling not being cool” is kinda exactly the point I’m making.. Additionally. Basketball teams are not that big. Plenty of schools of less than a thousand can fill 9th through varsity and that still fill wrestling teams. The basketball excuse is a tired one. That doesn’t even include the kids whose body type precludes making even the local yokel jv team. I can tell you from extensive personal experience that basketball is NOT the number one reason, not even top 3 a lot of the time. The top reasons almost invariably involve perception about the sport because of how it is presented and marketed to the outside world. Almost all of these perceptions are wrestling’s own fault and a result of stupidity not cause “well they just don’t want to” A lot of it comes from most in wrestling not understanding some basic facts, or willful deliberate ignorance. More specifically, not actually accepting and understanding that the people haven’t wrestled, they most of the time have no clue about it. And have a complete outsiders look. Yes I’m aware of the world team. You also are ignoring other points like the type of school and background most Elite wrestlers come from. It

Lol I gotcha. And yeah, 75 schools with a “team” doesn’t matter if 60 have 3-4 kids with massive turnover. As far as actually growing the sport

Honestly even before race enters it. How honest wrestling is with itself and how it’s perceived outside The inner community of wrestling culture. Then more conversations about the the state of wrestling and it’s general trend outside a very small self cannibalising “elite” crowd. Then before all the other stuff comes into play. A lot of people need to be willing to admit they really don’t want wrestling to grow outside of the current club system and culture. Because quite frankly. If wrestling grew and expanded outside its current area and demographic. And the grass roots system and more of “those other people” developed into elite talent... well that would mean all that club money, tournament fees and clinic money, didn’t make you part of the, eye roll, “elite” and wasn’t worth it. and anyone who doesn’t want to believe that this “fuuuuukk you, get mine” attitude. With either deliberate or willful ignorance of the effects on the sport long term are decirving themselves. and yes all relate directly to the race issue in different ways. And all of this is before the straight racist, both unintentionally and intentionally come into play.

Lol bet money on which part? Lol

Insert gif. Of point flying over your head

Don’t feel like quoting. However the New York thing brings up one of the fundamental issues with this whole debate/argument/discussion or whatever you want to call it. Everyone is looking at the “symptoms” of relatively low African American participation in wrestling. (low numbers at Midwest colleges). No one is looking at.. actual causes and reasons. To the person rambling on about the “prowess of the private schools in New York City. I’m willing to bet money that the person was referring to public schools with a lower avg. socio economic class than the average student at a private school. How is the wrestling numbers and participants at your local inner city school? And if so, how have they filled up their line ups? Have they actually elevated the wrestling beyond the youth headlock/cowcatcher phase? Are coaches lasting longer than 1-2 years? Also, I don’t think private schools are the best example to use. Yes I’m aware St. Benedict’s is much more diverse than your avg catholic school. However in general, the normal student there is going to be a better student and easier to deal with than the avg kid at the local public school. The fundamental fact is that in the majority of primarily African American dominated schools. Wrestling is not big or non existent. The places that are exceptions to that rule, are just that, exceptions. A quick glance at most of the African American recruits and top wrestlers show that most of them went to prep schools and/or more well to do suburban schools. Whilst efforts are underway to change that and grow the sport, and more importantly. In an area and demographic that’s new. Some of the things that impede it the most are where the uncomfortable conversations begin.

Omg! I totally forgot about the poster cletus tucker lol.

You know, as I’ve stated before. There are concrete ways ways in which race is an issue in wrestling. There are concrete problems which have and do impair the growth of the sport. There are both empirical and non empirical ways that this can be addressed. From things as simple as not dissing the 2-piece to honest looks at certain perceptions and assumptions. As well as growing the sport outside traditional places. Hell, just actually acknowledging Burroughs for his technical brilliance instead of spouting about just his “athleticism” and “grit”. Is a healthy start. That is actually why this whole thread is irritating. The fact that those issues are there is what makes “gestures” like Class’s, pun intended, whole premise classless. While I’m sure he is very self satisfied and happy to brag to his friends about how “woke” he is, and very thrilled at his imaginary reddit gold and get to claim himself an “ally”. All he’s doing is trying to create a witch hunt that goes after “easy” targets. And In a that one can easily “find” things wrong. Not only is it disingenuous.. it’s lazy. Really really lazy. Not only that it comes across to anyone on the fence or people who lean to the left but don’t put up with bull**** against you as well. Due to how slimy and disingenuous it looks and is. People like you actually make it harder to talk about actual issues because one gets lumped in with disingenuous virtue signalers like yourself. Oh and to the people making the flat bill and hunting comments. Whilst I know reddit tells you otherwise. And it’s both easy and lazy to assume everyone is Either an enlightened liberal or evil radical Joanne and Cletus. Believe it or not, there are far more people on the fence than you think. So every wannabe smug, condescending, douche comment takes that person that might be willing to discuss and listen or even, at the very least abstain from voting a certain way.. drives them away. Cause, while The Orange Tweeter May not be the best available leader, even to them. At least he’s not being condescending or acting smug superior and enlightened because you happen to live in the country or hunt.

**ill also add that 9/10 the only thing I can do is prep my kids for it.