steamboat_charlie v2

If it was a health issue I think Cael's language would have been different. Berge's been cleared for full go, but it's nearly impossible for him to be close to 100% in just 3 more weeks' time. IMO the questions now are (1) how close can he get, and (2) could his production at NCAA's help PSU win a title. If Cael's read on (2) is no, I think they go the medical redshirt route, which he fully deserves. If the staff thinks he can score ~5 points, I would wrestle him--and I don't think it would be some grand injustice, or mean they don't care about their wrestlers if they do.

There are more than 10 wrestlers on every team.

Why would anyone interpret this as proof of caring? Not that he doesn't, but this is a business decision. Are the team points Cael thinks Berge can score at NCAA's worth burning a year of his eligibility? That's all this is.

I co-sign this movement until he can scrounge together a couple hundred bucks for charity. Not holding my breath.

This ventures into chicken & egg territory, and is totally unprovable, but I don't think you get 4 years out of Snyder if he takes a redshirt. May not have even gotten 2.

I was just messing with you. Given the topic was consistency I agree avg makes sense. I know it's obvious, but it's still mind boggling that PSU's median finish at NCAA's over the past 13 seasons is 1st.

Now do medians : - )

Without a doubt.

No problem! Always enjoy the discussion. Looking just at the past 10 years: Moore, Romero, Smith, Sasso, Tomasello, all three Jordans, Kinner, Singletary, Kharchla, Heflin, L. Stieber -- all redshirted. Notable guys that didn't: Snyder, Martin, Pletcher, H. Stieber, and so far--Heinselman and Decatur. You can point to different reasons to each guy that didn't use one, but the most common reason has been that the team has been close enough to the top for Ryan to believe he should put his best team on the mat.

Did they lose opportunities... that remains to be seen. Decatur looks like a bad call but he's got 3 more years of eligibility and a redshirt still to use if needed. Heinselman you can can try to spin either way, but he doesn't look like a big time future point scorer. The idea that they haven't had great wrestlers on the "same team same year" is a bit silly. They just ran off 5 years averaging over 105 points at NCAAs. Iowa hasn't had enough guys on the "same team same year" since 2010.

Terrific, thanks. Not all that meaningful, but good info nonetheless.

I think you're a little off base on this one. Illinois, California, New York, New Jersey, Texas and Ohio all have more participants than PA. PA isn't even in the top 25 in terms of participation on a % basis (neither is OH, NJ, NY or CA). Participation is a prerequisite but it hardly guarantees a state will produce elite talent. Hell, 40% of the guys ranked in top 20 world freestyle rankings right now come from a region with roughly the same population as Oklahoma.

No, he has not. A specification of our bet was that the loser not return to the forum until posting proof of payment, which he has already broken without acknowledgment.

Agreed if we're counting greys. Even if not I think Vito/Yianni/Dean have the slight edge over Micic/Massa/Amine, although it's pretty close.

Iowa has historically done a nice job filling out their roster with slightly lower tier recruits in the 70 - 100 range. Guys like Wilcke, Turk, Glazier, Cashman, Brands, Costello have all fallen somewhere in there, and they've been able to develop guys and keep them in the program. Taking a quick look at the top 10, if you exclude redshirts and injuries not many others can field a respectable lineup. Ohio State can get pretty close but only if you use Hayes and Singletary. Most have total holes in at least 2 or 3 weights. If we're counting redshirts, Michigan probably has about 65 tournament points on the bench right now.