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drag it

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Everything posted by drag it

  1. Complete with classic Cael quote. "He was cleared to compete, so he competed." I agree that, although Iowa remains a heavy, heavy favorite, this makes the team race interesting in a way that they it wasn't before, given the first place ceilings that PSU has at 133, 141, 174, 184, and 285. That would be filling the most inside of inside straights, but it is legitimately within the abilities of each of those wrestlers.
  2. The Suriano and Mueller finals weren't close to a different result. The combined score was 10-1 and the one point came on a give-away escape at the very end against Suriano, a top-shelf wrestler whom Lee clearly outclassed. He was never close to giving up an earned score in either match, even after getting cradled by Mueller after making a bad choice to take down; Mueller, as big a hammer on top as there was in the country (ask Rivera), couldn't move Lee a smidgeon off his base despite having his hands locked.
  3. It's a really good point. Dake in OT, or even a one or two point match of any kind, you figure he wins an inordinate amount of them, more than Lee. I think it's a bit of an open question as to what to make of Lee's mixed results in the closer matches, when you consider the major knee injury that affected his freshman year and the unspecified illness that affected his sophomore year. For instance, he completely gassed vs Bresser, and he looked tentative and unsure in the Rivera losses. He was a completely different guy, finally really himself, at NCAAs both years, when he was just a killing machine. The best way to illustrate this was the difference between the careful, low-scoring early Tomasello matches and the way he manhandled him at NCAAs. I also think that Lee has to be given some credit for how hard he wrestles from the opening whistle, compare to Dake's more cautious approach. But Lee's record does suggest that this might be a real issue. Even the Desanto loss in high school contributes to this perception. (I personally think he should be given huge credit for wrestling with the injury (and never bitching about it) -- but, again, you think of a match like that and you figure Dake finds a way to win it.)
  4. I think WAR would generally be a better way to compare across eras than ERAs, no pun intended :), because ERA is tied to runs scored in the league as a whole, which fluctuates wildly between eras. For instance, ERAs were much lower in the 19teens, because the ball was dead and dirty and hard to see and because Ruth himself hadn't yet transformed the game by demonstrating the possibilities and value of power hitting. Ruth's 2.01 ERA in 1917 was 7th best in the league that year, but would have won the ERA title every year from 2001-2010. Similarly the famous "Year of the Pitcher" statistics from 1968, with a higher mound, bigger strike zone, and no hitting background in center field (such as Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA, and Denny McLain's 31 wins) have to be adjusted (downgraded) in comparison to other years; whereas Pedro Martinez's numbers in the 1990s and 2000s have to be adjusted (upgraded) due to the juiced players, juiced balls, and juiced (short fence) ballparks in his time. If you're going by ERA, it's better to go by ERA+, which is adjusted for things like league scoring that year and the park the pitcher played in. Ruth's career ERA was 2.28, Pedro's was 2.93. But Pedro was several classes above Ruth as a pitcher. His career ERA+ was 154 (third best ever behind Rivera and Kershaw), while Ruth's was 122. (Higher is better, ERA+ compares you to the rest of the league at 100.) Pedro had an ERA+ over 200 five times, including an absurd 291, the best in history, in the Steroid Central Season of 2000 (he was 1.74; next best AL pitcher was 3.70!). Ruth's best ERA+ was 158. Ruth was third and fifth in WAR among AL pitchers (for pitching value, not overall value which would include his awesome hitting) in 1916 and 1917, the two years he threw over 300 innings (back then a common amount for starters). And he had a 0.87 World Series ERA including a record for consecutive scoreless innings that lasted 43 years. That's really good, "all star" quality stuff, definitely not average, and possibly/probably Hall of Fame if he had done it for a career. But he wouldn't seem to have been a likely all time great even if he only pitched his whole career. Perhaps more Coleman Scott than John Smith, or more Joe Williams than Tom Brands.
  5. Yianni-McKee was very Yianni and very eventful. As noted elsewhere there was an endless challenge that you'll just want to forward through. I saw a few of the matches afterwards -- random thoughts: 1. Nice announcing team. Informative. Not too talky. Funny. Not Bader (he makes fantastic movies and gets good guests but absolutely cannot call a match live). 2. In the Flo section where they have the matches, you see the labels of the individual matches which say things like Yianni in the fifth place match and Cox in the third and you go: Wow!!! What a wild tournament! What are the repurcussions of these upsets?! And then you watch and you realize that those were (spoiler alert) based on their teams (I guess). 3. J'Den Cox is good at wrestling. 4. Something that I thought was funny. Honis caught Cox twice in the eye. Bad, both times, Cox was in a lot of pain. After the second one, when they started again, Honis put his hand very slowly and carefully on Cox's neck in a tie, he was not under any circumstances going to poke him again.
  6. I didn't hear the episode in question, but the criticism seems legit. The listener has an appropriate expectation that the people on a show like that will know and be able to explain the rules. Their job is wrestling. We up in the back of the peanut gallery have other jobs and we patronize this website to give us good wrestling info and be a reliable resource. On this it sounds like they didn't meet that standard, but Flo is a huge net plus for the sport and FRL is usually a really good listen.
  7. Great comparison. Lots of coaches who should know say that about both, despite neither having relatively notable muscle definition -- and the demolition rides are the proof.
  8. That's a reasonable take on this. Even if it's true that Askren makes choices based on his self interest (not hard to believe in a human person); that Askren may have taken advantage of Willie (my guess is that it's complicated, but let's say it's not); and that Pyles wronged Willie (I actually thought that Pyles was always quite respectful of and showed gratitude toward Willie even as Willie became a drag on the show), where's the high ground at this point? I could maybe have seen this closer to the breakups when emotion would be raw and social media's natural venting tendency took over. At this point, though, it does seem like a guy standing on a ladder and punching up when you compare resumes. Willie is regarded as having some particular skills, knowledge, and relationships. He should let those do the talking, not try to make hay out of discrediting a guy who he's not well suited to competing with, and who, even if the worst alleged is true, isn't currently impeding him in any way.
  9. I believe his sister (and his best friend) died after his sophomore year. He actually had a very fine sophomore season. He won Big Tens again, and took third at NCAAs (after a close loss to Habat),beating Sorenson, always a really tough out, in both. Then he got hit by a ton of bricks, looked (understandably) lost his junior year, had to transfer, and just totally gutted out an AA finish his senior year.
  10. Flo seems to have changed its storytelling method in recent films. Previously the focus was on participants and people involved with them telling the story. Now they have gone to the talking head thing where Flo personnel tell a lot of the story/give their analysis/opinions. I have a good opinion of those Flo people, but I do not like that approach and I feel it has weakened the films. The first time I noticed it was on their Penn State series. It started with Flo people pontificating and I didn't get past the first minute or two. Now that I know that this is what you get if you want to watch a Flo film I'll just hold my nose and watch.
  11. Yeah - that assumed hypothetical fact was my jumping off point for my bad joke.
  12. To have a chance at being a finalist he needs to stay where he is at 15 and not slide down a spot. Or down two spots. Or gain 6, 7, 10, or 11 spots. :)
  13. "And you never know with covid" is the only part of this that really adds up. Flo rankings have those 4 guys getting three seconds and a first and the team still trailing by 54 points. I would bet on Iowa's top 4 finishers outscoring Michigan's. At worst they'd be a few points behind. Then the other 6 weights are a total and complete mismatch. It would take a rash of illness or injury to make a difference. In any other year that would be unfathomable. Agree that Michigan has loaded up and has a legit shot at second. But the numbers aren't there. And the point above about the program not pounding on the door has some merit. Their guys have not really seized the day to date in March.
  14. Which doesn't surprise me, is consistent with the gist of what I posted which led to the sidebar on that incident, and which proves that the exception proves the rule, including with respect to that wrestler. I've really enjoyed watching Missouri kids for their wrestling, their styles, and the way they conduct themselves after matches at NCAAs. Thanks everyone for (a) the details on the incident, and (b) the important backstory on the young man.
  15. That sounds right. Best I remember, it was at NCAAs, it was a late round, it was really bad, and that there was discussion that a team penalty point could either cost them or almost cost them a team trophy. But I'm really fuzzy on the details and couldn't find anything with some quick searches on line.
  16. This is extremely anecdotal, but I've noted several times when Missouri wrestlers showed excellent sportsmanship after matches, both wins and losses, and I'd thought that might have something to do with the program's culture, which I otherwise know little about. I realize this might seem counter intuitive because they had a really bad incident a few years back with one of their guys at NCAAs (I'm getting old, can't remember who), but it's nonetheless an impression I've formed and was notable to me because, in my opinion, you don't see a lot of that in D1 wrestling.
  17. Not being familiar with the specific facts, I still don't find this astounding. He was a fine college wrestler and lots of things visible on the surface could contribute to the jump. 1. Some guys just take to freestyle in a way they don't to folk. 2. Maybe he was cutting a lot/too much and he's able to train and wrestle better at the higher weight with more muscle and more energy. 3. Maybe his priority was more academics before and at Duke that kept him from reaching his wrestling potential. 4. And who knows what else could be in play that isn't on the surface. Maybe he was inspired by the Israeli baseball team and uses their mensch on a bench as a training dummy to perfection. :)
  18. You were exactly right in your extremely thoughtful first paragraph. Hard stop after your die-on-the-hill sentence. No need to go any further than that. The current freestyle product is terrific and it seems to be doing far better in terms of acceptance than its sometimes embarrassing predecessors. Don't mess with a (very) good thing and don't let the perfect be the enemy of that. Folk and free are different. My sense is that most fans have room in their hearts for both, and that most of those who don't want to like free won't like it even if you add OT.
  19. For sure. Princeton says, We've got clout with the admissions office to get you into the number one ranked school in the country, great financial aid, and access to our professional network after graduation. Navy says, We will own you for nine years, it will be about us not about you that entire time. While wrestlers are more suited to the latter mentality than the average student, the former is still going to be a much stronger recruiting pitch to most.
  20. Yep. What they weighed in at today has got to be far less relevant than their weight classes, which are 25 pounds apart. Taylor is carrying around a ton more muscle than Burroughs. The eye test made that clear. Put another way, compare what Taylor looks like today as a full 86 kg'er to tour memory of him as a 165 lb collegian/74 kg freestyler. Could that second guy have had a chance against that first guy or would he get thrown around the mat? Given that advantage, not a tremendous result to win 4-4 with the only takedown being literally a gimme. But I do agree with Taylor's point about his finding a way to win being extremely important. He has already shown that he is a buzzsaw against guys his weight -- his Worlds dominance, the destruction of MyMar. A somewhat flat performance today -- but he won, and JB couldn't flip the switch like he always does against U.S. competition. Compare today's second period to what he did to Zahid. Taylor is a much more formidable guy than he used to be.
  21. Agree with all this and will use it as an opportunity to complain about the scorers tables at the NCAAs, which I think are even worse. Instead of a flat wall, they have a more dangerous edge. And there you have guys fighting to be AAs and are much less likely to back off at all given the stakes. And this is a pandemic where people have to improvise and are more likely to be stuck with limited options. Doesn't make the hazard yesterday ok, but to me it emphasizes the problem at NCAAs, where every year I see scary hits and near misses at the tables.
  22. Vito. Wow -- that last scoring flurry, a smoother than smooth elbow pass to a lace. He has just extraordinary skills (Captain Obvious here). Watching from afar, you get the feeling that he and Yianni feed off each other in an extraordinarily productive way in that room.
  23. Got it. You weren't initially blaming him. You just were saying that maybe his "big moves" and "throws" had something to do with it. That was just (erroneous) speculation before we had any details. Then when Gomez stated the facts, that he got hurt in a common way -- head to knee on leg attacks -- that's when we found out that he was to blame: "He said it himself" that he caused the end of his own career -- "the style and apparently the execution was obviously to blame." Now we know that his bad "execution was obviously to blame" for his forced retirement, based on a throwaway line -- "I don't know, maybe I should stop doing knee pulls" -- that he delivered with a chuckle and a self-deprecating smile. Of course, the "I don't know" part referred to the fact that we have no idea whether and how the execution on those moves led to injury, since he didn't even know that he had done knee pulls until they explained it to him after he regained consciousness. That was a remarkable admission/acceptance of blame by Gomez for something that his concussion caused him to have zero recollection of. If he ever gets tired of covering wrestling, Bader should get a hair cut, go to law school, and become a star prosecutor.
  24. Martinez has lectured on how he uses both knee pulls and snatch singles out of the same tie and set up, they're just different finishes, based on what's left for him by his opponent as he executes his bread and butter simple move. As if the difference between those two leg attacks has any relevance to your repeated assertions that Gomez's "throws" and "big moves" caused his injuries and retirement. Earlier I said that your implication in blaming him for losing his career based on his choice of style was unintentional. Obviously that's wrong -- you're intentionally and directly blaming his "style and apparently...execution" for his injuries, which I find objectionable to throw at a battler like him, as he loses out on his dreams, based on pretty much zero evidence other than a self deprecating, joking throw away line in his Bader interview. This could have been caused by the guys he was wrestling. It could have been caused by his innate predisposition to injury. It could be that both times the whistle blew and he moved his head, or any of a whole list of other flukes. Head to knee is a common injury, most famously Ness on Dennis in the NCAA final, that has nothing to do with throws, big moves, or other things we should blame the injured wrestler for.
  25. https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6852466-bader-show-austin-gomez Gomez: "The first time...I got kneed right in the temple." Bader: "The knee in the temple was the first one, or it was the most recent?" Gomez: "Both of them, actually. They've all...just gotten kneed in the temple. It's like, they're telling me I keep hitting knee pulls. Maybe I should have just stopped hitting knee pulls. Whenever I hit a need pull I was getting hit in the head." Big moves? No. Snag singles/knee pulls? Yes. One of the most, if not the most common way to get a concussion is head to knee, as discussed before. This wrestler didn't ruin his career by his style, wild or otherwise. BTW, Gomez came across quite well in describing what happened to him, what he learned about his physical condition, and the choices he was forced to deal with that ended his dreams.
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