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hbluejr

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  1. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from zephyr424 in The upside case for Snyder   
    As a Snyder fan, I'm naturally inclined to agree with this take and feel there's been a good amount of less-than-convincingly-supported negativity regarding his recent progression and the finals match. 

    Over his past 25 matches or so, IMO Snyder has looked considerably improved than the 25 matches or so leading up to 2019 worlds.  In my view, as he approached 2019 worlds, Snyder increasingly started to wrestle like a HWT (maybe years wrestling NCAA HWT, having a HWT for a coach/training partner, the added bulk, etc. increasingly played a role).  He would routinely lunge for opponent's heads, lean on a heavy lead-hand club,  push/pull, and look to drive/shuffle opponents backwards.  He was leaning very north/south and more agile opponents found it easier to slip of the tracks and cleanly get to his legs (I recall several times it looked like Snyder would almost fall over opponents on their shots he was caught so off-balance).  He also started to regularly try to shoot through his own ties, which again allowed the more agile guys to feel/anticipate his attacks coming and beat him to the corner.   In his last 25 matches or so he has looked to have much more active hands when hand fighting (especially utilizing his left hand more effectively), much more active feet, and better balance.  I think there's some DT in his hand fighting now.  One result has been opponents have rarely sniffed his legs over that span.  He's also started to get back to more consistently sliding off of his own ties, clears, and snaps to cleaner shots during opponents' reaction time.  He's not as quick to the leg as he was when he came onto the scene, but I think the active hands and feet have made him better defensively and opened up more step out opportunities.  I think a quick perusal of match scores over the last 50 or so matches reveals a more dominant wrestler over the last 12+ months.   As for the Sadulaev match, I think different tactics could lead to a better result.  I was surprised to see Snyder going back to low level attacks so frequently this tournament.  In recent tournaments I had been seeing much more commitment to hand-fighting/pressuring opponents to the edge and looking for snap downs or Hi-C's and doubles that could be converted into step outs if well defended.  I don't know if some of the low singles and pick attempts throughout the tournament were something they thought they could exploit against Sadulaev, or if it was just Snyder defaulting back to what used to get the job done for him in big moments.  Sadulaev had hit a beautiful chest wrap or two earlier in the tournament and it was clear he's now Dake-ish from that position.  Scary stuff for a 97kg-er.   Sadulaev's better-rounded scoring potential from par tarre and shot defense give him more routes to victory for sure, but the positives for Snyder are that Sadulaev didn't come particularly close to a clean TD and Snyder got one of his own off his Hi-C- almost to a trap arm too.  The last two times they wrestled Sad got to Snyder's legs fairly cleanly early on, but not here.  Better shot selection from Snyder and a commitment to more pressure through handfighting could certainly lead to a tighter match down the stretch when hopefully Snyder can pull Sadulaev into deep water.  Sadulaev did look quite worn down in that final 90 seconds or so (he also looked as large/muscular as I've ever seen him, so maybe those two things are related).  

    Finally, per the "NLWC" thread, it's just not the case that Snyder had a cake draw compared to Sadulaev.  Per UWW database, entering the tournament Conyedo served Sharifov his most recent loss (June '21), Karadeniz's gave Odikadze his most recent loss (April '21), and Snyder teched Salas in his most recent loss (2020 PanAms).  It's been nearly two years since the last world championships- a lot has changed in the field.
  2. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from TheOhioState in The upside case for Snyder   
    As a Snyder fan, I'm naturally inclined to agree with this take and feel there's been a good amount of less-than-convincingly-supported negativity regarding his recent progression and the finals match. 

    Over his past 25 matches or so, IMO Snyder has looked considerably improved than the 25 matches or so leading up to 2019 worlds.  In my view, as he approached 2019 worlds, Snyder increasingly started to wrestle like a HWT (maybe years wrestling NCAA HWT, having a HWT for a coach/training partner, the added bulk, etc. increasingly played a role).  He would routinely lunge for opponent's heads, lean on a heavy lead-hand club,  push/pull, and look to drive/shuffle opponents backwards.  He was leaning very north/south and more agile opponents found it easier to slip of the tracks and cleanly get to his legs (I recall several times it looked like Snyder would almost fall over opponents on their shots he was caught so off-balance).  He also started to regularly try to shoot through his own ties, which again allowed the more agile guys to feel/anticipate his attacks coming and beat him to the corner.   In his last 25 matches or so he has looked to have much more active hands when hand fighting (especially utilizing his left hand more effectively), much more active feet, and better balance.  I think there's some DT in his hand fighting now.  One result has been opponents have rarely sniffed his legs over that span.  He's also started to get back to more consistently sliding off of his own ties, clears, and snaps to cleaner shots during opponents' reaction time.  He's not as quick to the leg as he was when he came onto the scene, but I think the active hands and feet have made him better defensively and opened up more step out opportunities.  I think a quick perusal of match scores over the last 50 or so matches reveals a more dominant wrestler over the last 12+ months.   As for the Sadulaev match, I think different tactics could lead to a better result.  I was surprised to see Snyder going back to low level attacks so frequently this tournament.  In recent tournaments I had been seeing much more commitment to hand-fighting/pressuring opponents to the edge and looking for snap downs or Hi-C's and doubles that could be converted into step outs if well defended.  I don't know if some of the low singles and pick attempts throughout the tournament were something they thought they could exploit against Sadulaev, or if it was just Snyder defaulting back to what used to get the job done for him in big moments.  Sadulaev had hit a beautiful chest wrap or two earlier in the tournament and it was clear he's now Dake-ish from that position.  Scary stuff for a 97kg-er.   Sadulaev's better-rounded scoring potential from par tarre and shot defense give him more routes to victory for sure, but the positives for Snyder are that Sadulaev didn't come particularly close to a clean TD and Snyder got one of his own off his Hi-C- almost to a trap arm too.  The last two times they wrestled Sad got to Snyder's legs fairly cleanly early on, but not here.  Better shot selection from Snyder and a commitment to more pressure through handfighting could certainly lead to a tighter match down the stretch when hopefully Snyder can pull Sadulaev into deep water.  Sadulaev did look quite worn down in that final 90 seconds or so (he also looked as large/muscular as I've ever seen him, so maybe those two things are related).  

    Finally, per the "NLWC" thread, it's just not the case that Snyder had a cake draw compared to Sadulaev.  Per UWW database, entering the tournament Conyedo served Sharifov his most recent loss (June '21), Karadeniz's gave Odikadze his most recent loss (April '21), and Snyder teched Salas in his most recent loss (2020 PanAms).  It's been nearly two years since the last world championships- a lot has changed in the field.
  3. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from Mphillips in The upside case for Snyder   
    As a Snyder fan, I'm naturally inclined to agree with this take and feel there's been a good amount of less-than-convincingly-supported negativity regarding his recent progression and the finals match. 

    Over his past 25 matches or so, IMO Snyder has looked considerably improved than the 25 matches or so leading up to 2019 worlds.  In my view, as he approached 2019 worlds, Snyder increasingly started to wrestle like a HWT (maybe years wrestling NCAA HWT, having a HWT for a coach/training partner, the added bulk, etc. increasingly played a role).  He would routinely lunge for opponent's heads, lean on a heavy lead-hand club,  push/pull, and look to drive/shuffle opponents backwards.  He was leaning very north/south and more agile opponents found it easier to slip of the tracks and cleanly get to his legs (I recall several times it looked like Snyder would almost fall over opponents on their shots he was caught so off-balance).  He also started to regularly try to shoot through his own ties, which again allowed the more agile guys to feel/anticipate his attacks coming and beat him to the corner.   In his last 25 matches or so he has looked to have much more active hands when hand fighting (especially utilizing his left hand more effectively), much more active feet, and better balance.  I think there's some DT in his hand fighting now.  One result has been opponents have rarely sniffed his legs over that span.  He's also started to get back to more consistently sliding off of his own ties, clears, and snaps to cleaner shots during opponents' reaction time.  He's not as quick to the leg as he was when he came onto the scene, but I think the active hands and feet have made him better defensively and opened up more step out opportunities.  I think a quick perusal of match scores over the last 50 or so matches reveals a more dominant wrestler over the last 12+ months.   As for the Sadulaev match, I think different tactics could lead to a better result.  I was surprised to see Snyder going back to low level attacks so frequently this tournament.  In recent tournaments I had been seeing much more commitment to hand-fighting/pressuring opponents to the edge and looking for snap downs or Hi-C's and doubles that could be converted into step outs if well defended.  I don't know if some of the low singles and pick attempts throughout the tournament were something they thought they could exploit against Sadulaev, or if it was just Snyder defaulting back to what used to get the job done for him in big moments.  Sadulaev had hit a beautiful chest wrap or two earlier in the tournament and it was clear he's now Dake-ish from that position.  Scary stuff for a 97kg-er.   Sadulaev's better-rounded scoring potential from par tarre and shot defense give him more routes to victory for sure, but the positives for Snyder are that Sadulaev didn't come particularly close to a clean TD and Snyder got one of his own off his Hi-C- almost to a trap arm too.  The last two times they wrestled Sad got to Snyder's legs fairly cleanly early on, but not here.  Better shot selection from Snyder and a commitment to more pressure through handfighting could certainly lead to a tighter match down the stretch when hopefully Snyder can pull Sadulaev into deep water.  Sadulaev did look quite worn down in that final 90 seconds or so (he also looked as large/muscular as I've ever seen him, so maybe those two things are related).  

    Finally, per the "NLWC" thread, it's just not the case that Snyder had a cake draw compared to Sadulaev.  Per UWW database, entering the tournament Conyedo served Sharifov his most recent loss (June '21), Karadeniz's gave Odikadze his most recent loss (April '21), and Snyder teched Salas in his most recent loss (2020 PanAms).  It's been nearly two years since the last world championships- a lot has changed in the field.
  4. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from BigTimeFan in The upside case for Snyder   
    As a Snyder fan, I'm naturally inclined to agree with this take and feel there's been a good amount of less-than-convincingly-supported negativity regarding his recent progression and the finals match. 

    Over his past 25 matches or so, IMO Snyder has looked considerably improved than the 25 matches or so leading up to 2019 worlds.  In my view, as he approached 2019 worlds, Snyder increasingly started to wrestle like a HWT (maybe years wrestling NCAA HWT, having a HWT for a coach/training partner, the added bulk, etc. increasingly played a role).  He would routinely lunge for opponent's heads, lean on a heavy lead-hand club,  push/pull, and look to drive/shuffle opponents backwards.  He was leaning very north/south and more agile opponents found it easier to slip of the tracks and cleanly get to his legs (I recall several times it looked like Snyder would almost fall over opponents on their shots he was caught so off-balance).  He also started to regularly try to shoot through his own ties, which again allowed the more agile guys to feel/anticipate his attacks coming and beat him to the corner.   In his last 25 matches or so he has looked to have much more active hands when hand fighting (especially utilizing his left hand more effectively), much more active feet, and better balance.  I think there's some DT in his hand fighting now.  One result has been opponents have rarely sniffed his legs over that span.  He's also started to get back to more consistently sliding off of his own ties, clears, and snaps to cleaner shots during opponents' reaction time.  He's not as quick to the leg as he was when he came onto the scene, but I think the active hands and feet have made him better defensively and opened up more step out opportunities.  I think a quick perusal of match scores over the last 50 or so matches reveals a more dominant wrestler over the last 12+ months.   As for the Sadulaev match, I think different tactics could lead to a better result.  I was surprised to see Snyder going back to low level attacks so frequently this tournament.  In recent tournaments I had been seeing much more commitment to hand-fighting/pressuring opponents to the edge and looking for snap downs or Hi-C's and doubles that could be converted into step outs if well defended.  I don't know if some of the low singles and pick attempts throughout the tournament were something they thought they could exploit against Sadulaev, or if it was just Snyder defaulting back to what used to get the job done for him in big moments.  Sadulaev had hit a beautiful chest wrap or two earlier in the tournament and it was clear he's now Dake-ish from that position.  Scary stuff for a 97kg-er.   Sadulaev's better-rounded scoring potential from par tarre and shot defense give him more routes to victory for sure, but the positives for Snyder are that Sadulaev didn't come particularly close to a clean TD and Snyder got one of his own off his Hi-C- almost to a trap arm too.  The last two times they wrestled Sad got to Snyder's legs fairly cleanly early on, but not here.  Better shot selection from Snyder and a commitment to more pressure through handfighting could certainly lead to a tighter match down the stretch when hopefully Snyder can pull Sadulaev into deep water.  Sadulaev did look quite worn down in that final 90 seconds or so (he also looked as large/muscular as I've ever seen him, so maybe those two things are related).  

    Finally, per the "NLWC" thread, it's just not the case that Snyder had a cake draw compared to Sadulaev.  Per UWW database, entering the tournament Conyedo served Sharifov his most recent loss (June '21), Karadeniz's gave Odikadze his most recent loss (April '21), and Snyder teched Salas in his most recent loss (2020 PanAms).  It's been nearly two years since the last world championships- a lot has changed in the field.
  5. Like
    hbluejr reacted to BigTimeFan in The Champ is Saduleav   
    Sadualaev has the potential to be at the very top of the position of greats. Let’s do the math. 

    2014 world champ 
    2015 world champ 
    2016 Olympic gold. 
    2017 world silver 
    2018 world gold
    2019 world gold 
    2020 Olympic gold 
    He is already a six time world/Olympic gold medalist and one Silver. There’s a list of all time medal winners. There’s been one ten timer (Medved), one nine timer (Satiev), three eight timers (Belaglazov, Fadzaev and Jordanov), one seven timer (Khadartsev) and there are seven six timers (including Sadulaev and Smith). 

    Keep the following in mind as you read the fun facts below. Sadulaev just won his sixth world/Olympic title. He turned 25 May 9th of this year. He won his first world tittle in 2014 at the age of 18. 

    Some fun facts:
    First off none very few six+ timers were flawless. Almost all of them wrestlers in more championships than they won. Even Smith who went six for six lost a match.

    Medved competed in 12 world / Olympic championships and came away with ten golds, one silver and one bronze. He competed in three weight classes, and won seven golds at 97kg and three at 100kg+. Technically he won gold at three weight classes but that’s because some years he won at 97kg+ vs others at 100kg+ weights.
    Medved was born in 1937 and won his last gold in 1972 at the age of 35. He won his first gold in 1962 at the age of 25.  

    Satiev won an astounding three Olympic golds and competed in four. He won his last gold in 2005 at the age of thirty. He won his first in 1995 at the age of twenty (all ages are approximate!). 
    Fadzaev was born in 1962 and won his last gold in 1992 at the age of 30. 
    Satiev and Fadzaev were both stopped by an American in an Olympics (Satiev losing to Slay and Fadzaev to Monday). Khadartsev won his last gold medal in Atlanta in 1992 after which the USSR team became the Russia team. Rumor has it that post that Maharbek, without the benefit of all kinds of supplements and other goodies, was no longer made of cast iron and superhuman strength. Nevertheless he won four more world medals, three silvers and a bronze. 

    Two other things: Belaglazo and Fadzaev won world titles before and after 1984 so arguably missed a gold due to the Russian boycott of 1984. 

    If Sadulaev continues wrestling and winning till he’s thirty he’s on track to eclipse Medved and become the first 11 or even 12 timer. He could even lose or skip one and get there. I don’t see an immediate threat. We can hope that J’Den could get there but I’m not so sure. 
     
    EDIT: changed Medved last win to 1972 at age of 35. 
  6. Like
    hbluejr reacted to Jon_Kozak in FS Credentials at Worlds-All Weights   
    57KG - 38 Entries. 7 World/Olympic Medalists. 2 World/Olympic Champs
    Andreev (BLR) - World Bronze 14
    Atli (TUR) - World Bronze 18
    Atrinacharchi (IRI) - Asian Champ 19
    Amiraslanov (AZE) - Junior Champ 15, Euro Games Champ 19
    Erdenebat (MGL) - World Bronze 17
    Fix (USA) - Junior Champ  17
    Harutunyan (ARM) - 2 x Junior Bronze 17 and 18…Euro Champ 19
    Micic (SRB) - Jr. Bronze 15, Euro Games Silver 19, Euro Bronze 18
    Sanayev (KAZ) - World Silver 18
    Takahashi (JPN) - World Champ 17, World Bronze 18
    Uguev (RUS) - World Champ 18
    Yatsenko (UKR) - World Bronze 17
     
     
    61KG - 26 Entries. 4 World/Olympic Medalists. 1 World/Olympic Champ
    Bonne (CUB) - World Champ 18, World Bronze 17, World Bronze 14
    Ehsanpoor (IRI) - Asian Champ 19 - 5th in worlds 17
    Graff (USA) - Pan Am Champ 17
    Gvarzatilov (AZE) - World Bronze 16 - Junior Champ 13
    Idrisov (RUS) - U23 Champ 18
    Lomtadze (GEO) - World Silver 16
    Tumenbileg (MGL) - World Bronze 18
    Topal (TUR) - Euro Bronze 18 and 19
    Yamaguchi (JPN) - Junior  Champ 19
     
     
    65KG - 46 Entries. 7 World/Olympic Medalists. 3 World/Olympic champs
    Aliev (AZE) - World Champ 17, 15, 14, Olympic Bronze 16
    Guidea (ROU) - Euro Bronze 16; 18
    Khinchegashvili (GEO) - Olympic Silver 12, Gold 16, World Silver 14, Champ 15, Bronze 17
    Kilicsallayan (TUR) - Euro Silver 19; Bronze 18, University Champ 14, Junior Champ 13
    Muszukajev (HUN) - Junior Silver, Russian Runner Up in 2018
    Niyazbekov (KAZ) - World Bronze - 2011
    Otoguro (JPN) - World Champ 18
    Punia, Bajrang (IND) - World Silver 18
    Rashidov (RUS) - World Silver 17, 18 
    Retherford (USA) - Cadet Champ 12
    Skryabin (BLR) - University Bronze 14, Russian Nationals Bronze 16
    Tevanyan (ARM) - U23 Euro Champ 2019, Jr Bronze 18
    Valdes Tobier (CUB) - World Bronze 17, 18
     
     
    70KG - 30 Entries. 7 World/Olympic Medalists. 1 World/Olympic Champ
    Baev (RUS) - Jr Champ 17, U23 Silver 18
    Batirov (BRN) - World Silver 18…HE’S 34! Junior Silver 03, Euro Silver 04; 09,
    Dogdurbek Uulu (KGZ) - World Bronze 16
    Emamichoughuei (IRI) - U23 Bronze 17, Jr World Bronze 17
    Gadzhiev (POL) - World Silver 17
    Ganzorig (MGL) - World Bronze 13, 14
    Green (USA) - World Bronze 15, Silver 17
    Iakobishvili (GEO) - World Bronze 18, World Champ 17
    Karpach (BLR) - Euro Bronze 18
    Navruzov (UZB) - World Silver 15, Olympic Bronze 16,
    Radulov (UKR) - University Silver 12, University Bronze 13, Euro Bronze 16
    Sava (MDA) - University Silver 16, University Bronze 14
     
     
    74KG - 41 Entries. 10 World/Olympic Medalists. 4 World/Olympic Champs
    Abdurakhmanov (UZB) - World Bronze 14, 18
    Afzali Paemami (IRI) - University Champ 12, 16
    Bekzhanov (KAZ) - World Silver 16
    Kaisanov (KAZ) - Asian Champ 19
    Sakaev (KAZ) - University Bronze 16
    Burroughs (USA) - World Champ 11, 13, 15, 17, Olympic Champ 12, World Bronze 14, 18
    Chamizo (ITA) - World Bronze 10, World Champ 15, 17, Olympic Bronze 16
    Demirtas (TUR) - Olympic Bronze 16, World Bronze 17, 
    Gadzhiev (AZE) - Junior Champ 18, Junior Bronze 19, Sr. Euro Games Bronze 19
    Garzon Caballero (CUB) - He’s 35! Junior world Champ IN 2003 (Andy Simmons was in this bracket)!!! World Bronze 05 (Chris Bono took 22), World Bronze 06 (Bill Zadick won!), World Silver 07 (Doug Schwab took 5th here), World Bronze 10
    Gomez (PUR) - World Silver 11, 
    Kentchadze (GEO) - World Silver 18, 
    Khadjiev (FRA) - Euro Silver 17, 18, Junior Champ 14
    Nurikau (BLR) - World 5th - 14, 15, 17
    Sidakov (RUS) - World Champ 18
    Kumar (IND) - He’s 36! Olympic Silver 12, Olympic Bronze 08, World Champ 10
    Vasilioglu (ROU) - University Silver 18
     
     
    79KG - 24 Entries. 4 World/Olympic Medalists. 1 World/Olympic Champ
    Dake (USA) - World Champ 18
    Gaidarov (BLR) - HE’S 39! World Silver 03, Olympic Silver 08
    Hasanov (AZE) - World Bronze 11, Silver 18, Olympic Bronze 16
    Kurbanov (UZB) - World Bronze 13
    Nabiev (RUS) - Junior Champ 15, U23 Silver 18
    Nazhmudinov (ROU) - U23 Bronze 18
    Salkazanov (SVK) - U23 Champ 18
    Teymouri (IRI) - Asian Champ 19
     
     
    86KG - 46 Entries. 9 World/Olympic Medalists. 1 World/Olympic Champ
    Aminashvili (GEO) - World Bronze 15
    Dauletbekov (KAZ) - U23 Silver 17
    Davlumbaev (KAZ) - U23 Bronze 16
    Downey (USA) - Junior World Silver 12
    Dudarov (GER) - Junior World Silver 12
    Erdin (TUR) - World Silver 18
    Espinal Fajardo (PUR) - Olympic Silver 12
    Friev Naskideava (ESP) - World Bronze 18
    Gostiev (AZE) - Euro Silver 16, 17, 18
    Ianulov (MDA) - University Champ 10, University Bronze 13
    Makoev (SVK) - World Silver 17
    Naifonov (RUS) - Junior World Champ 17, U23 Silver 18, Euro Champ 18
    Orazgylyov (TKM) - U23 Silver 18
    Punia (IND) - Junior Champ 19, Junior silver 18
    Shabanov (BLR) - World Bronze 13, 14, 17, 18
    Takatani (JPN) - World Silver 2014
    Torreblanca (CUB) - Pan Am Champ 19, 17, 15
    Vereb (HUN) - World Bronze 13
    Yazdani Charati (IRI) - World Champ 17, Olympic Champ 16, World Bronze 18, World Silver 15
     
     
    92KG - 20 Entries. 3 World/Olympic Medalists. 1 World/Olympic Champ
    Cox (USA) - World Champ 18, World Bronze 17, Olympic Bronze 16
    Karimimachiani (IRI) - World Bronze 15, 18
    Mtsituri (GEO) - U23 Bronze 17, Euro Silver 19
    Rubaev (MDA) - Junior Silver 2011
    Toth (HUN) - University World Silver 18
    Yankouski (BLR) - World Silver 18
    Zhabrailov (RUS) - Russian Nationals Champ 19, Bronze 18
    Zubairov (AZE) - U23 Champ 18
     
     
    97KG - 28 Entries. 7 World/Olympic Medalists. 3 World/Olympic Champs
    Andriitsev (UKR) - Olympic Silver 2012, World Bronze 14
    Hushtyn (BLR) - Euro Silver 17,18,19
    Ibragimov (UZB) - Olympic Bronze 16
    Odikadze (GEO) - World Bronze 18
    Sadulaev (RUS) - World Champ 14, 15, 18, World Silver 17, Olympic Champ 16
    Saritov (ROU) - World Bronze 11, Olympic Bronze 16
    Shabanibengar (IRI) - U23 Bronze 18
    Sharifov (AZE) - World Champ 11, Olympic Champ 12, World Bronze 09, Olympic Bronze 16
    Snyder (USA) - World Champ, 15, 17, Olympic Champ 16, World Silver 18
    Thiele (GER) - Junior Silver 16
     
     
    125KG - 31 Entries. 6 World/Olympic Medalists. 2 World/Olympic Champs
    Akguel - (TUR) - World Champ 14, 15, World Silver 17 World Bronze 13, Olympic Champ 16
    Berianidze (ARM) - World Bronze 10, 17
    Deng (CHN) - World Silver 18
    Gwiazdowski (USA) - World Bronze 17, 18
    Khotsianivski (UKR) - University Silver 13, University Bronze 12
    Khugaev (RUS) - Russian Champ 19 
    Ligeti (HUN) - University Bronze 10
    Magomedov (AZE) - World Silver 15, World Bronze 11
    Mohebbi (IRI) - Asian Champ 19
    Petriashvili (GEO) - World Champ 17, 18, World Bronze 14, 15, Olympic Bronze 16
    Rakhimov (UZB) - Junior Bronze 18
    Romanov (MDA) - University Bronze 16
  7. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from bwh277 in Mt Rushmore for your state   
    Kelly Ward was certainly the more accomplished NCAA wrestler, but Chiapparelli's freestyle credentials, in my opinion, make this a worthy debate.

    Ward does seem to be a underappreciated all the same.  After losing to Lee Kemp in the NCAA finals in 1977, he began to close the gap his junior year (Kemp's senior year).  In the Iowa State-Wisconsin dual, Ward became Kemp's only non-win on his record after his true freshman year as they tied 5-5 in the dual.  In a truly great NCAA Final that year, Kemp ran up an 8-0 lead entering the 3rd and Ward stormed back to lose 10-8.  Highlights from that match can be viewed below.  Ward of course would win next year's title after Kemp graduated.

    That said, Chiapparelli's overall wrestling career is really incomplete without considering his freestyle accolades.  Aside from winning every major high school national tournament and winning an NCAA title, he was also a Junior World Silver Medalist and he earned a number of wins against some of our most elite senior level athletes.  He beat Mark Schultz in the 1988 US Open and would lose to him 2 matches to 1 in the Olympic Trials Finals (these matches were partially depicted in Foxcatcher). That same year he would defeat future World gold medalist Lukman Jabrailov in the famed USA vs. USSR Fiesta Bowl Dual (the John Smith-led US team won against a stout Soviet squad).  The next year as the US World Cup rep he would earn gold over former World Champ Raul Cascaret (Cuba) and former World Bronze Vorobiev (USSR).  Chiapparelli never made a World or Olympic team, but was competing in an extremely competitive era and weight against not only Schultz (3x gold), but also Kevin Jackson (3x gold), Melvin Douglas (4x medalist, 1x gold), and Royce Alger (1x silver).  After retiring for four years (which he spent modelling in Paris of all things according to an interview in the Spoken spokesman) he even came back to the sport to place 4th in the 1996 US Open.

    Perhaps more than anything, though, Chiapparelli's wrestling style was innovative and far ahead of it's time-- pure funk long before it became a mainstream part of the sport-- and this made his every match 'must see' for wrestling fans at the time.  And he was deadly too, owning pins over the likes of Kevin Jackson and Melvin Douglas, and I'm sure many other top tier competitors.  Finally, one could also consider his contributions to bridging the worlds of wrestling and MMA as he formed the RAW team that helped usher the likes of Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Frank Trigg, and other World Team-calibre wrestlers into MMA.

    It all comes to criteria, but while Ward is an underappreciated collegiate great, largely due to his overlap with the near unmatched overall greatness of Lee Kemp (who would be on my USA Rushmore) and his lack of a post-collegiate freestyle career, Chiapparelli's freestyle accomplishments and wins, his innovative and dangerous style, and his pioneering work with wrestlers in MMA make him a worthy potential inclusion on a Maryland Rushmore, in my opinion at least.
     
  8. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from Sparky in Mt Rushmore for your state   
    Kelly Ward was certainly the more accomplished NCAA wrestler, but Chiapparelli's freestyle credentials, in my opinion, make this a worthy debate.

    Ward does seem to be a underappreciated all the same.  After losing to Lee Kemp in the NCAA finals in 1977, he began to close the gap his junior year (Kemp's senior year).  In the Iowa State-Wisconsin dual, Ward became Kemp's only non-win on his record after his true freshman year as they tied 5-5 in the dual.  In a truly great NCAA Final that year, Kemp ran up an 8-0 lead entering the 3rd and Ward stormed back to lose 10-8.  Highlights from that match can be viewed below.  Ward of course would win next year's title after Kemp graduated.

    That said, Chiapparelli's overall wrestling career is really incomplete without considering his freestyle accolades.  Aside from winning every major high school national tournament and winning an NCAA title, he was also a Junior World Silver Medalist and he earned a number of wins against some of our most elite senior level athletes.  He beat Mark Schultz in the 1988 US Open and would lose to him 2 matches to 1 in the Olympic Trials Finals (these matches were partially depicted in Foxcatcher). That same year he would defeat future World gold medalist Lukman Jabrailov in the famed USA vs. USSR Fiesta Bowl Dual (the John Smith-led US team won against a stout Soviet squad).  The next year as the US World Cup rep he would earn gold over former World Champ Raul Cascaret (Cuba) and former World Bronze Vorobiev (USSR).  Chiapparelli never made a World or Olympic team, but was competing in an extremely competitive era and weight against not only Schultz (3x gold), but also Kevin Jackson (3x gold), Melvin Douglas (4x medalist, 1x gold), and Royce Alger (1x silver).  After retiring for four years (which he spent modelling in Paris of all things according to an interview in the Spoken spokesman) he even came back to the sport to place 4th in the 1996 US Open.

    Perhaps more than anything, though, Chiapparelli's wrestling style was innovative and far ahead of it's time-- pure funk long before it became a mainstream part of the sport-- and this made his every match 'must see' for wrestling fans at the time.  And he was deadly too, owning pins over the likes of Kevin Jackson and Melvin Douglas, and I'm sure many other top tier competitors.  Finally, one could also consider his contributions to bridging the worlds of wrestling and MMA as he formed the RAW team that helped usher the likes of Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Frank Trigg, and other World Team-calibre wrestlers into MMA.

    It all comes to criteria, but while Ward is an underappreciated collegiate great, largely due to his overlap with the near unmatched overall greatness of Lee Kemp (who would be on my USA Rushmore) and his lack of a post-collegiate freestyle career, Chiapparelli's freestyle accomplishments and wins, his innovative and dangerous style, and his pioneering work with wrestlers in MMA make him a worthy potential inclusion on a Maryland Rushmore, in my opinion at least.
     
  9. Like
    hbluejr reacted to PRyan2012 in Cox vs "Snyder or Taylor"   
    two months later at the US Open freestyle. So Snyder is 2-0 against Jden. 
  10. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from CoachWrestling in Giving PDIII props   
    It's certainly true that anomalies can be found anywhere, but the state of Maryland, while not large (#19 in terms of population), does in fact do an exceptional job of producing highly capitalized and elite talent across many sports.

    Per NCAA data, Maryland ranks very highly in % of participants/sport recruited at the D1 Level in nearly all sports. For instance: Boys' Basketball (#1), Girls' Basketball (#1), Boys' Soccer (#1), Girl's Track and Field (#1), Boys' Lacrosse (#1), Girls' Lacrosse (#1), Boys' Track and Field (#2), Girls' Soccer (#4), Wrestling (#4), Football (#5), Baseball (#8), etc. 

    In the 2016 Rio Olympics I believe 10 different athletes who played high school athletics in Maryland won Gold Medals across 7 different sports.  I believe this ranked 2nd overall behind California and 1st in per capita.  In terms of recent wrestling success oddities, as has been noted, in 2017 four former/current Maryland high school wrestlers won age level World Golds (Snyder, Maroulis, Brooks, McHenry).  

    These results across various sports may be due to Maryland being the state with the #1 per capita income in the U.S. (likely due it's privileged greogrphic proximity to the nation's capital), which has resulted in well funded public high schools, many dozens of private schools, many well funded youth sports options, and parents with the means to pay for supplemental athletic training, all located within a very small geographic area that fosters a lot of competitive opportunities and knowledge transfer.

    Maryland certainly isn't notorious for wrestling and it's not particularly popular in-state (#24 nationally in terms of total high school participation #'s), but like other sports it does punch a bit above it's weight.  When elite talent does come around, athletes in Maryland may be more likely to be afforded the resources and opportunities needed to capitalize on their potential across a variety of sports.  There certainly are some Phelps and Snyder equivalents out there who just weren't born in to the right situations to succeed athletically.
  11. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from Paul158 in Is Yianni the Second Best Ever?   
    Flo did rank Uetake #2 on their all time greatest college wrestlers list last year, so, he does get some modern recognition.  

    He was truly great.  I personally haven't found a record of a single Uetake loss in any style/competition-- he went 3/3 undefeated at NCAA's and 2/2 Gold in the Olympics- giving up no offensive points in his first Gold run and beating 6 recent or soon-to-be World Gold medalists through the Japan Team Trials and the Olympics.  And that was with 2 more years of NCAA competition to go.

    If you were to knock him as far as some sort of collegiate career rankings go, it would be because he was 21 yrs old in his first NCAA's appearance, so it's tough to know how he would have done as a 18, 19 or 20 yr old (he didn't wrestle any major tournaments if at all his freshman year as far as I can tell).  I suppose Stieber (21) is similar, and Dan Hodge was even older at just about age 23 in his first NCAA's due to military service (he did make the Olympics at age 20 and went 1-2).  

    For those reasons, I tend to view Kemp and Snyder's accomplishments from ages 18-22 or so as a bit more impressive as they competed as true freshman and also had international success at very young ages (World Golds at 19 and 21 respectively).  (My personal preference is to take freestyle/international success into account when playing these thought experiments as to how these guys stack up against each other as NCAA competition levels can be so variable).

    If Yianni is able to win out in NCAA competition, make a couple world teams, and perhaps medal, I think it could be very reasonable to argue for his career to be ranked above Cael's.  I tend to view the day in and day out competition at 141 and 149 as generally stronger than that at 184 and 197.  As a true freshman, in addition to the all too frequently referenced loss, I don't believe Cael wrestled actually wrestled very much high caliber collegiate competition (e.g. didn't compete at Midlands, etc.), and he took 7th in the Jr. World Trials that year (high school junior Damion Hahn took 3rd). Two years later I believe he took 6th at US Open and was knocked out early in the Olympic Trials.

    That said, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to match Cael's collegiate dominance from ages 21-23 or so, and of course nothing in wrestling is guaranteed as recent NCAA's have shown re: great guys like Imar, Cenzo, and Mymar.  With these thought experiments, it's all about the personal criteria, of course.
  12. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from TobusRex in Is Yianni the Second Best Ever?   
    Flo did rank Uetake #2 on their all time greatest college wrestlers list last year, so, he does get some modern recognition.  

    He was truly great.  I personally haven't found a record of a single Uetake loss in any style/competition-- he went 3/3 undefeated at NCAA's and 2/2 Gold in the Olympics- giving up no offensive points in his first Gold run and beating 6 recent or soon-to-be World Gold medalists through the Japan Team Trials and the Olympics.  And that was with 2 more years of NCAA competition to go.

    If you were to knock him as far as some sort of collegiate career rankings go, it would be because he was 21 yrs old in his first NCAA's appearance, so it's tough to know how he would have done as a 18, 19 or 20 yr old (he didn't wrestle any major tournaments if at all his freshman year as far as I can tell).  I suppose Stieber (21) is similar, and Dan Hodge was even older at just about age 23 in his first NCAA's due to military service (he did make the Olympics at age 20 and went 1-2).  

    For those reasons, I tend to view Kemp and Snyder's accomplishments from ages 18-22 or so as a bit more impressive as they competed as true freshman and also had international success at very young ages (World Golds at 19 and 21 respectively).  (My personal preference is to take freestyle/international success into account when playing these thought experiments as to how these guys stack up against each other as NCAA competition levels can be so variable).

    If Yianni is able to win out in NCAA competition, make a couple world teams, and perhaps medal, I think it could be very reasonable to argue for his career to be ranked above Cael's.  I tend to view the day in and day out competition at 141 and 149 as generally stronger than that at 184 and 197.  As a true freshman, in addition to the all too frequently referenced loss, I don't believe Cael wrestled actually wrestled very much high caliber collegiate competition (e.g. didn't compete at Midlands, etc.), and he took 7th in the Jr. World Trials that year (high school junior Damion Hahn took 3rd). Two years later I believe he took 6th at US Open and was knocked out early in the Olympic Trials.

    That said, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to match Cael's collegiate dominance from ages 21-23 or so, and of course nothing in wrestling is guaranteed as recent NCAA's have shown re: great guys like Imar, Cenzo, and Mymar.  With these thought experiments, it's all about the personal criteria, of course.
  13. Like
    hbluejr reacted to jackwebster in Giving PDIII props   
    "There certainly are some Phelps and Snyder equivalents out there who just weren't born in to the right situations to succeed athletically."
    Thanks for all the data. I think there might be "freak-o-nomics" explanations for some of it. For example, there's probably a direct correlation between per-capita income, private schools and DI Lax players. Probably also a connection between per capita income, private schools, and college wrestling participation (one wonders which DI schools these kids are going to... probably, private?). The magnet nature of private schools and proximity of NJ, PA, VA, etc might also skew the numbers, eg is McHenry from MD? Is Martin from MD? 
    In any event, it looks like I was wrong: there is something in the water. However, I still think that you can't predict where generational/ transcendent talents like Snyder and Phelps will come from. Why hasn't there been a Snyder from the Lehigh Valley? 
     
  14. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from gromit in Giving PDIII props   
    It's certainly true that anomalies can be found anywhere, but the state of Maryland, while not large (#19 in terms of population), does in fact do an exceptional job of producing highly capitalized and elite talent across many sports.

    Per NCAA data, Maryland ranks very highly in % of participants/sport recruited at the D1 Level in nearly all sports. For instance: Boys' Basketball (#1), Girls' Basketball (#1), Boys' Soccer (#1), Girl's Track and Field (#1), Boys' Lacrosse (#1), Girls' Lacrosse (#1), Boys' Track and Field (#2), Girls' Soccer (#4), Wrestling (#4), Football (#5), Baseball (#8), etc. 

    In the 2016 Rio Olympics I believe 10 different athletes who played high school athletics in Maryland won Gold Medals across 7 different sports.  I believe this ranked 2nd overall behind California and 1st in per capita.  In terms of recent wrestling success oddities, as has been noted, in 2017 four former/current Maryland high school wrestlers won age level World Golds (Snyder, Maroulis, Brooks, McHenry).  

    These results across various sports may be due to Maryland being the state with the #1 per capita income in the U.S. (likely due it's privileged greogrphic proximity to the nation's capital), which has resulted in well funded public high schools, many dozens of private schools, many well funded youth sports options, and parents with the means to pay for supplemental athletic training, all located within a very small geographic area that fosters a lot of competitive opportunities and knowledge transfer.

    Maryland certainly isn't notorious for wrestling and it's not particularly popular in-state (#24 nationally in terms of total high school participation #'s), but like other sports it does punch a bit above it's weight.  When elite talent does come around, athletes in Maryland may be more likely to be afforded the resources and opportunities needed to capitalize on their potential across a variety of sports.  There certainly are some Phelps and Snyder equivalents out there who just weren't born in to the right situations to succeed athletically.
  15. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from jackwebster in Giving PDIII props   
    It's certainly true that anomalies can be found anywhere, but the state of Maryland, while not large (#19 in terms of population), does in fact do an exceptional job of producing highly capitalized and elite talent across many sports.

    Per NCAA data, Maryland ranks very highly in % of participants/sport recruited at the D1 Level in nearly all sports. For instance: Boys' Basketball (#1), Girls' Basketball (#1), Boys' Soccer (#1), Girl's Track and Field (#1), Boys' Lacrosse (#1), Girls' Lacrosse (#1), Boys' Track and Field (#2), Girls' Soccer (#4), Wrestling (#4), Football (#5), Baseball (#8), etc. 

    In the 2016 Rio Olympics I believe 10 different athletes who played high school athletics in Maryland won Gold Medals across 7 different sports.  I believe this ranked 2nd overall behind California and 1st in per capita.  In terms of recent wrestling success oddities, as has been noted, in 2017 four former/current Maryland high school wrestlers won age level World Golds (Snyder, Maroulis, Brooks, McHenry).  

    These results across various sports may be due to Maryland being the state with the #1 per capita income in the U.S. (likely due it's privileged greogrphic proximity to the nation's capital), which has resulted in well funded public high schools, many dozens of private schools, many well funded youth sports options, and parents with the means to pay for supplemental athletic training, all located within a very small geographic area that fosters a lot of competitive opportunities and knowledge transfer.

    Maryland certainly isn't notorious for wrestling and it's not particularly popular in-state (#24 nationally in terms of total high school participation #'s), but like other sports it does punch a bit above it's weight.  When elite talent does come around, athletes in Maryland may be more likely to be afforded the resources and opportunities needed to capitalize on their potential across a variety of sports.  There certainly are some Phelps and Snyder equivalents out there who just weren't born in to the right situations to succeed athletically.
  16. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from mob in Kurt McHenry   
    "

    This exact hypothetical could be posed about literally every single recruit...Yet, it's not.  So what's different here?

    The publicly stated/available information relevant to McHenry's education/academic abilities, from what I can tell, is:

    a.) He attends a very academically competitive prep school (St. Paul's) who's most recent nationally ranked recruits matriculated to Princeton (Tsonga) and UPenn (Planta).

    b.) He completed this prep school's graduation requirements a semester early.

    c.) He'll attend one of the nations top academic universities next year (UMich). 

    d.) And, his short list of universities consisted of UMich, Stanford, Cornell, UNC, and Penn State.

    Literally every piece of education-relevant information publicly stated/available should be considered a very positive indicator of his academic abilities and yet he's the kid that prompts reckless message board postulation about whether "his academics are trouble..."? 

    This board should stick to wrestling-- needlessly broaching questions about a kid's academic capabilities- especially without the slightest reason or impetus to- is irresponsible and potentially damaging.
  17. Like
    hbluejr got a reaction from KTG119 in Kurt McHenry   
    "

    This exact hypothetical could be posed about literally every single recruit...Yet, it's not.  So what's different here?

    The publicly stated/available information relevant to McHenry's education/academic abilities, from what I can tell, is:

    a.) He attends a very academically competitive prep school (St. Paul's) who's most recent nationally ranked recruits matriculated to Princeton (Tsonga) and UPenn (Planta).

    b.) He completed this prep school's graduation requirements a semester early.

    c.) He'll attend one of the nations top academic universities next year (UMich). 

    d.) And, his short list of universities consisted of UMich, Stanford, Cornell, UNC, and Penn State.

    Literally every piece of education-relevant information publicly stated/available should be considered a very positive indicator of his academic abilities and yet he's the kid that prompts reckless message board postulation about whether "his academics are trouble..."? 

    This board should stick to wrestling-- needlessly broaching questions about a kid's academic capabilities- especially without the slightest reason or impetus to- is irresponsible and potentially damaging.
  18. Thanks
    hbluejr got a reaction from leshismore in Kurt McHenry   
    "

    This exact hypothetical could be posed about literally every single recruit...Yet, it's not.  So what's different here?

    The publicly stated/available information relevant to McHenry's education/academic abilities, from what I can tell, is:

    a.) He attends a very academically competitive prep school (St. Paul's) who's most recent nationally ranked recruits matriculated to Princeton (Tsonga) and UPenn (Planta).

    b.) He completed this prep school's graduation requirements a semester early.

    c.) He'll attend one of the nations top academic universities next year (UMich). 

    d.) And, his short list of universities consisted of UMich, Stanford, Cornell, UNC, and Penn State.

    Literally every piece of education-relevant information publicly stated/available should be considered a very positive indicator of his academic abilities and yet he's the kid that prompts reckless message board postulation about whether "his academics are trouble..."? 

    This board should stick to wrestling-- needlessly broaching questions about a kid's academic capabilities- especially without the slightest reason or impetus to- is irresponsible and potentially damaging.
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