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John Morgan

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Posts posted by John Morgan

  1. First, I have no skin in the game and as a former wrestler and coach, I am trying to be objective.  The match is on Youtube and watch the replay starting at 1:43.  Use your phone to record in slow motion if you want to really analyze the move in even slower motion. 

    Top wrestler (TW) uses both hands to slightly tug/pull the lower part of the leg of Bottom Wrestler (BW) outside of his base to ensure BW does not sit on his own leg.  TW then posts his left hand and pulls again with his right hand (with right forearm placed against the side of the leg of BW) to make sure the bottom part of BW leg is outside of his base.  TW then reaches for bottom of the foot/toe with left hand and turns the toe outward.  Note BW head is stuck under TW hips/thigh.  TW then pulls again with both hands outward.  TW then releases the leg with both hands and goes for cradle.

    The question is (regardless of who the wrestlers are, what team they are for or their past performances), "Is the pressure against the normal movement of the knee joint?" 

  2. From the rule book. Although what happened was not exactly illustrated, the pressure is against the normal movement of the knee joint.  The rule book also states that an illegal hold should be stopped by the referee to prevent injury but in cases where the illegal hold/movement cannot be prevented it should be penalized.  Objectively, I would say that move is going against the normal movement of the joint no matter who does it.


  3. On 12/18/2019 at 6:47 PM, HokieHWT said:

    When I hit the heavy bag in the basement I tuck in my sweatshirt into my sweatpants and my sweatpants into my socks. The correct answer to why I do this is to keep the heat in. Sometimes I still duck tape my wrists to hold all the heat in, usually when I’m trying to detox from the night before.

    Funny.  Yep, plastics under the sweats and everything tucked in tight to sweat as much as possible.  Take it all off, dry down, step on scale, making weight by an ounce or two if lucky and then downing a 32 oz Gatorade in seconds.  

  4. Agreed.  It was a nice documentary and a great tribute to Alex and the Stickley family.  Odd, I remember watching the Wi/IA dual last year and hearing about the bELIeve story but I guess I didn't really put the it together until today.  I was at the Big Tens last year when Alex beat Joseph and the arena was just electric after his victory.   Powerful tribute.

  5. On 11/26/2019 at 4:05 PM, patmilkovich said:

    I believe Barton qualified as a wildcard from DII. And Barton took out the 5,4,1,and 2 in that order...He won is first match 11-5, then 6-6, 4-3OT (2-3-3, 1min rest, then 1-1-1), then 8-5, then 5-3 in the semi's, then 8-6 in the finals.... I'm pretty sure they took the 1 & 2 and several wild cards in DII and all the DIII champs plus a few wilds...I could be wrong on the exact numbers....Also, Hvywt Chris Taylor, Iowa St., weighed 400+.  I wish they would reinstate the "unlimited" weight class again.  Having the 118 and UNL truly gave a lot of guys a chance to compete at the college level, reinforcing the concept that virtually any one, any size, could get a scholarship and compete collegiately in sport... like wrestling.  Back then there was no 9.9 limit on scholarships or how many could be in the room...And Doug Blubaugh was Grady's asst at MSU until 1973, then he left for Indiana.

    Pat, congratulations to you and your brother for your outstanding careers.   It's an honor to have you provide your insight and wisdom to this board.

  6. I would stay with Folk and here are some of my reasons...

    *   Folkstyle rule changes/adaptations are made via the NCAA Coaches Committee...these guys know wrestling pretty well (I don't recall who is currently on the committee) and although I don't agree with all of them, at least it's fairly consistent from year to year.

    *  The international rules are set by the Officials (not coaches).

    *  Think of all the rule changes in international wrestling over the past couple decades...2 minute periods with no accumulated scoring, the infamous ball grab, single leg position after after tied period, forced body lock after tied periods, one day tournaments with single elimination or virtually no wrestle backs, no sense even wrestling for third place as we need to get these damn matches over with, good grief I could go on and on.  If these guys were in charge of my marketing department and responsible for filling the seats, i would have fired them multiple times over.  

    *  Contrast any international tournament, even the Olympics and world championships,  to the DI NCAA wrestling championships.  The DI's are a much better fan experience.  Some of the reasons for this is the brackets are easy to understand, the tournament is spread over three days and fans can go the bars with their friends/family and talk about the great matches and the anticipation of great matches to come.  The Big Tens are similar.  These are fun times.

    *  If we move to international rules, we will be beholden to the international officials (yikes) and their opinions.  No more input from the field.

    *  International wrestling has three officials for each mat?  What a joke and waste of travel expenses.

    *  International matches have a lot of subjectivity to the scoring (who tilted who?, no sure but better get the three officials together to discuss) 

    *  The international officials are constantly blowing the whistle and stopping the matches.  Oftentimes they are even scolding the wrestlers which gives a tone of disrespect.

    *  Is Folkstyle perfect?  Probably not, but at least it's uniquely ours.


  7. 5 hours ago, Witherman said:

    apple valley's website says they have 6 ncaa champs - could this be counting multiple championships per individual athlete?  i'm no expert on minnesota HS wrestling but they were the first team that I thought of when you mentioned bloomington being the most

    Dang.  I could be behind the times and that may be so. 

    AV DI champs...Mark Hall, Seth Gross, and Matt Demary (WI).  DII champs Destin McCauley (NE Kearney), and Mike Langlais (NDSU).  I am missing someone but not sure who off hand.  

  8. I agree with Antitroll...I am sure there are not many HS's in the country who can claim even close to 9 NCAA champs.  As a comparison, Bloomington Kennedy HS in MN has the highest number of NCAA champs in the state with three...Marty Morgan (MN), Joel Sharratt (IA), and Jason Ness (MN).

  9. 3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

    An awful lot of people in this world lack much of the awareness required to do certain things. Thankfully this young man looks to be OK, but that ref really is lacking something. 

    That would be similar to "Gross Misconduct" in the workplace...terminatable on the first offence.  How did this person get to be reffing at this level is another injustice.  Sorry, I have zero empathy in this situation.

  10. On 9/26/2019 at 10:48 AM, Gantry said:

    I don't think football is easy to understand, we just grew up with it and it all seems natural/obvious now.  Had a friend from New Zealand live here for awhile and she gave up after a couple games because of how confusing all the rules were.  Also a big reason why it's struggling to get traction outside of the US, if you didn't grow up here a lot of it is weird and nonsensical.   Totally agree with the rest of your points though...

    I don't think folkstyle wrestling is easy to understand, we just grew up with it and it all seems natural/obvious now.  Had a friend from Russia live here for awhile and he gave up after a couple meets because of how confusing all the rules were.  Also a big reason why it's struggling to get traction outside of the US, if you didn't grow up here a lot of it is weird and nonsensical.   Totally agree with the rest of your points though...

    My point is...people who grow up in wrestling love wrestling (for the most part).  Grow the sport at the grassroots and you sustain the craft.  Hard to get people who love tennis to start watching wrestling if they didn't grow up doing it.  

  11. 6 minutes ago, LJB said:

    i understand that fully and don't disagree, but, i am done with forcing him to wrestle a style he absolutely hates... and it is not that he hasn't excelled at folk... he  has placed every year at tulsa and kick off since he was 10... has been in the finals of both several times while always wrestling his walk around... but, he hates it... he hates practicing it... if he is forced to continue to wrestle a style he hates, it will beat him down very soon and he will quit... no way he could make it through an entire high school "career"

    so, we are trying to figure it out and this country has made it extremely hard for him to focus on the style he loves...

    Being a dad is tough...when to push and when to hold back.  Parenting is like coaching, it becomes an art form.  I don't know enough of your personal situation to offer advice but I can say that Tulsa tournament is a tough one so if he is placing there he is salty.  

  12. 5 minutes ago, LJB said:

    little frustrates me more right now than my youngest wanting to only do greco right now and it not even being a possibility because of his age and size... next summer he will be a first year cadet and right now still only weighs 87 lbs... all he wants to do is train greco full time and he doesn't even have the option... best we can do is one day of greco a week during the **** style season...

    all the while, the rest of the world has kids his age who have been learning the nuances and intricate technical aspects of greco full time since they were 10...

    this season he won't wrestle one folk match because he would rather eat ground glass... we made a deal, no having to compete in the **** style all year... he has to practice it becasue there is literally no other options, but, no wasting time competing... he doesn't make either the U15 Greco World team or the Cadet team, then he has to wrestle HS as a freshmen... this is an experiment

    Hi LJB,

    That is one way to do it but I have found if you love wrestling, you can learn any style.  It depends on your end game I guess.  I remember in the my final trials match in 92 I lost to Dan Henderson.  Dan was a great all around wrestler but he didn't take the traditional college route after HS and went to Russia to train in GR.  Worked for him but I would say it is even more difficult today because you are dealing with fewer weight classes (Olympic years anyway).  Right  off the bat you have a 40% lower chance of making the team than in say 1992 because of this alone.  I remember when someone asked Lincoln McIlravy why he retired and he simply stated because I didn't have a weight class anymore.  Personal opinion though...I think the Olympics are way over rated and there are much better opportunities to pursue.  

    I had three sons all wrestle through HS and I was their coach.  All enjoyed the sport and what it offered them and they wouldn't trade the experience for anything.  However, none of them had the same level of passion I did for the sport and now pursue different professions.  In the end, to even keep them in a sport as demanding as wrestling is a challenge...especially when the world around them offers instant gratification.  I digress though as that is another topic altogether.

  13. 35 minutes ago, LJB said:

    i will say, i am impressed... you do realize you have just separated yourself from 98% of the population...

    i tip my cap to you...


    I'll chime in here...from personal experience being on a couple US GR World teams.  Oftentimes when training and traveling overseas we would work out at the local gym prior to competitions.  I was always impressed with the GR technique while watching some of the kids/youth wrestlers in places like the Scandinavian countries, former eastern block countries, Russia, and Cuba.  Their GR technique was well developed at younger ages.  Not that this makes it more popular but it is an advantage in these countries that don't do folkstyle.  

    We in America are used to folkstyle because we grow up with it.  The rest of the world does not.  How to grow a sport is from the youth level on up.  People once said soccer will never take off in the U.S., but it has and you know what...they DIDN'T change the rules.  As more people competed the more they appreciated the finer details of the sport and the sport earned their admiration.

    Don't get me wrong, my favorite style is actually folkstyle and one of the main reasons is because our coaches make up the ncaa rules vs some bureaucratic officials organization like the WWE (formerly FILA) that changes rules every other month it seems.  With all the rule changes over the years in international wrestling, there really isn't a greater fan base in wrestling than when I was a kid.  Go to most wrestling tournaments and it is family members who are the spectators but this is no different though than swimming, gymnastics, skating, cycling, etc.   The majority of people who watch and follow any sport are people who grew up doing it.



  14. 23 minutes ago, jdowntown said:

    Come on man. Why are there so few cradles in the international styles? Do just a tiny bit of analysis and you will see that the rules of the international styles simply don't encourage pins.

    Guys on bottom don't have to do anything and therefore are not obligated to open themselves up at all. That is why 95% of the time when someone gets taken down, boom lay and pray practically every time, no variety, just stall it out for 5 seconds. If they had to say come up to a knee in order to stand up in order to improve their position, hey lookie cradles now become more viable.

    I know, I know, par terre is so dull, get them back on the feet ASAP. But it comes at a cost. You may call it boring or stalling, but to me mat wrestling is the soul of the sport.

    Jdowntown:  I too love the mat wrestling and more so if top guy is working toward a pin.  More grueling type of wrestler on top that is punishing.  I don't like the 4 points for tilts though as I think this has actually reduced the type of riding that worked for pins.  I will mention though that par terre defense may appear to be "lay and pray" but in actuality there is an art to it.  I made some videos to help others get better at par terre and it does frustrate me to no end how many guys give up turns from underneath.  Anyway, good conversations.



  15. 4 hours ago, jdowntown said:

    Given the international styles propensity for change, I think it would be way easier to get UWW to change to make it more viewer friendly and closely align with folkstyle. I propose the following changes:

    1. Eliminate the lay and pray defense on bottom. Give 1 point for an escape and remove the automatic return to neutral. This will force the bottom guy to work (more exciting) and give the top guy more opportunity to score as the bottom guy is not doing the lay and pray (also more exciting).

    2. Make guys on top keep a turn for say 2 seconds so there is none of this confusion about who turned who. Fans hate the ambiguity that we see in so many matches. Make a person hold the other person down on a turn.

    3. Remove criteria in favor of overtime. If there is a concern for matches taking too long, maybe do 1 minute of sudden-death neutral and then move to a top and bottom round.

    You said it brother and good post.  The 2 point tilt gets way to foggy and the refs have a hard time seeing/scoring it.  I would also impose only 2 officials just as we do in the NCAA finals which would eliminate probably about 20% of official travel expenses.  I don't say 1/3 expense elimination as I am sure back ups may be needed to give officials a break.

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