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  1. Micic graduated high school in 2014. Same class as Snyder, Nickal, and Nolf lol 133 should be loaded this year
  2. by my count the USA now has 5 consecutive JR. World Golds at 74kg Hall/Hall/Lewis/Carr/O’Toole Hall, Lewis, and Carr all won NCAA titles.
  3. Zahid is currently 23. That's the same age JB won his first world title. Taylor and Dake both won their first world titles at age 27. In addition, Taylor and Dake were both older in 2016 than anyone in the next crop is now when they both failed to make the Rio team. FWIW, a 20 y.o Zahid was competitive against Dake at FinalX 3 years ago. BTW, Gable Steveson just turned 21 a couple of months ago--he's in the next crop too.
  4. Dake, Taylor, Burroughs, Cox, and Snyder combined for 2 Junior World medals—both by Snyder. If the age range of your crop is from JB to Snyder, then the next crop is from Zahid Valencia (hs c/o 2015) to the current class of high school juniors. That next crop has already brought home 25+ Junior World medals and has some years to add even more.
  5. Haha, Snyder was finishing up his freshman year in high school when Burroughs made his first world team.
  6. Looking at 97kg: 3 Olympic/World Champions - Sadulaev (2x Olympic champ, 4x world champ, 1x silver) - Snyder (1x Olympic champ, 2x world champ, 2x silver, 1x bronze) - Sharifov (1x Olympic champ, 1x world champ, 1x silver, 2x bronze) 7 other World/Olympic medalists - Odikadze (1x bronze) - Mohammamdian (1x bronze) - Salas (2x silver, 1x bronze) - Nurov (1x bronze) - Ibragimov (1x bronze) - Conyedo (2x bronze) - Saritov (2x bronze) That's 28 total medals with 11 Gold after Tokyo. A lot of the 97kg guys were old though, and some of their medals were from a long time ago. I don't know if 97kg was the toughest, but it was probably the most decorated and featured the #1 wrestler in Sadulaev.
  7. Am I crazy for thinking there's a solid chance he wouldn't be in the top 5? I think most of us would take all 3 of Taylor, Nickal, and Valencia over Amine. Then at least 2 of these guys are probably better: Dean, Dieringer (who wins in the Michigan room when Dieringer is healthy?), Martin, Downey, A. Brooks, Hall (undefeated against Amine) Maybe Amine's style is better suited for international competition than it is domestically, but I don't think he'd even place top 5 at U.S. Trials.
  8. In the last 15 years, I would personally go with McIntosh. edit: (if we're excluding Pico) I don't think anyone scored any offensive points against McIntosh in folkstyle during his Junior and Senior years. I don't know if anyone was competitive with him his senior year. He was destroying everyone from 189-215. He split matches against future teammate Ed Ruth @ 84kg Junior FS Nationals in the spring of 2010. Here's the match he won. McIntosh was still a high school junior, and Ed Ruth was months away from dominating the NCAA. Here's McIntosh manhandling Gabe Dean their senior years @ FloNationals. After his senior season ended, McIntosh bumped all the up to 215 for junior freestyle nationals and destroyed the field there. Here's him dominating a younger Adam Coon. Spoiler: he hits Coon with an arm throw and pins him in the first. I'm always surprised McIntosh didn't have a more successful college career. I wonder if he would have won a couple of national titles down at 184. He looked like a small 197lber as a true freshman. He entered NCAAs as the 3 seed as a sophomore, but placed 7th. He placed 3/2 as a junior/senior. After some more thought, he was blocked by Wright as a true freshman and by Ruth as RS sophomore. Cox and/or Snyder were in his brackets his sophomore-senior seasons. Fun fact: McIntosh is only one of two wrestlers to beat both Cox and Snyder in college. The other is Gadson. McIntosh is the only one to do it in the same season
  9. agreed. Dave Schultz is easily my #1 all-time CA guy, considering all accolades at any level. The Mount Rushmore of CA wrestling would be the Schultz Brothers, Varner, and Abas—with Neal just missing the cut. Based purely on high school accolades, CA is a lot harder to rank. For PA, I think it’s easily Kolat. I’m a big Marsteller fan, but I don’t think he had any signature wins against other blue chips his last two years in high school. He didn’t do much on the freestyle circuit after his sophomore year either. I thought a one-year older BoJo and IMar could beat him in 2013. I also think a younger Mark Hall and Anthony Valencia would’ve given him all he could handle in 2014. Chance’s best win during that time was probably an OT match against Weircoch. I think the 4 guys I mentioned above would’ve torched Weircoch. I’m pretty sure BoJo teched him a year later or so into college. Marsteller did eventually meet a younger Hall at the 2015 Junior Trial Finals and Hall destroyed him in less than 30 seconds. Spencer Lee is mentioned too for PA, but IMO his lack of size hurts him. He didn’t grow into 125 until he hit college, so he did not have any crazy wins against older wrestlers. He does hold cadet and junior world titles, but they’re all at 50kg. Frankly, his losses to DeSanto and Fix take him out of the running for me.
  10. Touché. I will admit Jimmy Carr is way before my time, and I didn’t even think to consider anyone pre-80s. FWIW, I do think Kolat is without a doubt a top 5 all-time wrestler in high school. I agree that Pico is often excluded since he stopped folk style after his freshman year. If we’re excluding him here, then I’d have to change my pick—but I don’t think I’d take any other CA guy over Kolat’s resume. What??? I literally said Seth isn’t even in my top 15 CA wrestlers despite his 1XX-1 high school record and 4 state titles. In fact, I said none of the CA 4-timers would crack my top 15 from CA. I said Pico had little to nothing to prove scholastically on the folk style scene after his freshman year. He went to the toughest national tournaments and beat nearly everyone there was to beat in his weight range. He won Ironman during the winter that featured all the top dogs at 132. He smashed McKenna at 138 in the spring, and he wrecked Retherford the following year (who was fresh off his first AA honor)—but those matches were in freestyle. I’m simply taking him over Kolat because I believe he objectively accomplished more in freestyle than Kolat did as a high schooler.
  11. Based off what they accomplished in high school only, I don’t see how Kolat really has an argument over Pico. Kolat beating a bunch of high schoolers in folk style doesn’t do it for me. CA has one of the toughest state tournaments, and Pico won it. Walsh Ironman is the toughest national tournament, and he also won that. There wasn’t much left to prove scholastically in folk style. IMO, racking up another 100 wins against a lot of guys who would never go to the D1 level or AA does nothing for his legacy. I’ll take 5 wins to none against Zain Retherford, wins over JO, Humphrey, Molinaro and a win against Safaryan over Kolat placing at Midlands and placing at WTT trials. He literally beat a world champion and a handful of NCAA champs as a high schooler. I don’t see 19-23 year old Pico taking 7 losses at the NCAA level like Kolat did (or running away from any wrestlers either), but I suppose it’s true that we’ll never know. Looks like we strongly disagree on the importance of high school folk style wins.
  12. I believe he was an 8th grader entering his freshman year. Heil was entering his senior year. Pico never won midlands (or entered), but I have a feeling he could’ve easily won it 3x from his sophomore-senior years if he wanted to. He thrashed Zain in spring/summer 2015, and everyone was avoiding Zain at 149. Pico was also runner-up at the Olympic trials. He beat Ness (Hodge winner), Oliver (2x NCAA champ), Humphrey (multiple world team member), and even took a match off Molinaro. Domestically, I don’t think you can get more prestigious than that. He was a takedown away from being the Rio rep. I also think he has the better age-group credentials (cadet Gold, 2 junior world medals) than Kolat, and he had more impressive senior-level wins. He beat 2013 world champ Safaryan as a high school Junior. internationally, he took a few losses, but I’m not sure to who. I know Yazdani and Chamizo beat him, but there were a few others too.
  13. I guess it depends on how much value you put into state championships. Personally, I don’t see how Pico gains any points for beating on high schoolers at the CA state tournament or even the Walsh Ironman. Would ~100 more wins over high schoolers really shoot him up on a list of all-timers? It’s hard for me to picture any high schooler in that 138-152 range beat him from 2013-2016 (Pico’s sophomore-senior years) or even really give him a match. Maybe a senior Jason Nolf vs. a sophomore Pico would be a good match, but I think Pico goes right through him. He handled Zain rather easily in 2014–who was already an AA, and he dominated Zain again the following year before Zain went on to go torch the NCAA for three consecutive years. Molinaro, Metcalf, Humphrey, and Stieber are the only Americans I can recall beating a high school Pico from 2014-16, and they were all already NCAA champs/world team members at that point of their careers.
  14. I believe this thread is just for HS resume. For CA: - HS: Aaron Pico - College: Stephen Abas - International: Dave Schultz
  15. Pico was runner-up at the Olympic Trials and had wins over multiple NCAA Champs. I would easily pick him over Kolat based off accomplishments in high school.
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