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Everything posted by Nushy

  1. I just think they need to review a call this serious on a case-by-case basis if a kid is going to miss close to 30 matches. The suspension for biting is flagrant misconduct. Period. They don’t take into account the situation, maneuver or severity. If it was an actual malicious bite, then yes 8 points is definitely warranted maybe even the remainder of the season. When it’s something like an open mouth crossface I think they should look at all the evidence which they didn’t. Believe me, the most important characteristic I think a person can possess is accountability and I teach my kids this everyday. I’m not saying there weren’t teeth marks after the initial crossface. Put your forearm over your open mouth and pull back as hard as you can for 6-7 seconds and I think you will find teeth imprints. The rule needs clarification. This whole situation has been so frustrating as a parent. There really is no where to find answers unless you read the bylaws, rules, etc. I thought I could at least get some answers from unbiased people on this forum. Knowledge is power. Thank you for your input.
  2. A one day duel only counts as 1 point. The initial incident was the second day of a tournament, 1st match of the day. He is 145 it’s a stacked weight class in our district.
  3. @Lurker 4 matches at the duel today so that will be closer to 30 matches missed.
  4. Exactly! Flawed system. If a call as severe as biting is made, the ref should be required to take photos and document the injury. I took a photo of the other wrestlers arm but it was 3 hours later (unfortunately, I wasn’t there when it happened and didn’t think to do it until I spoke with the opposing coach who said he thought it was an unfortunate call and that he didn’t think it was an intentional bite). We have never encountered anything like this before so we didn’t really know what to do. There was no broken skin, no individual teeth marks, just a small red line that looked like the tooth had scraped the arm due to forced motion. Never in a million years did I ever think he would be suspended for 8 points, totaling over 25 matches.
  5. As stated in my previous post, we submitted a letter from the opposing coach and athlete stating that they don’t feel that the teeth marks were an intentional bite, along with photos and video showing the kid driving his arm into my son’s open mouth (preponderance of the evidence). We did follow procedure. The ref wrote up a report, the FHSAA issued a suspension, the next day our school filed a petition with the above mentioned evidence and the executive director’s assistant upheld the suspension. We then hired an attorney who requested, in behalf of the school, that the ED himself review the case. Now we are waiting for a sectional appeals hearing. The problem is, everyone shuts down for the holidays so there has been no rush by the FHSAA to resolve. Wrestling IS over the holidays so I guess we are just SOL. Bottom line is, they have some major flaws in their appeals process. I feel for the athletes who don’t have the means or knowledge to go up against the FHSAA. I was originally told by the school that after the petition there was nothing we could do- they weren’t even aware of a sectional appeals. We have a new athletic director and principal who haven’t had the pleasure of dealing with the FHSAA. The FHSAA governs the officials who call major violations, then an officer of the FHSAA rules on the petition issued by the school. It should be an independent party with no ties to officials. IMO it’s a major conflict of interest.
  6. I appreciate your response, and yes I’m aware of the situation where the FHSAA overruled a referee’s call- the attorney who represented that athlete is also representing my son. The sectional appeals committee apologized to the athlete who was found not guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. Does that get back lost time? Lost opportunity? No. The executive director absolutely has the authority to view a petition before it reaches sectional appeals as stated in the by-laws AND preponderance of the evidence must be the deciding factor. He missed 5 matches the day the DQ was called which doesn’t count as a point, 8 matches at the next 2-day dual tournament 2 points, 1 match for a dual meet (1point), 8 matches at a 2-day dual (2 points), 1 match for a dual this evening (1 point) and at least 6 matches for a dual tournament this weekend (2points). If I’m not mistaken that is over 25 missed matches. The way that sectional appeals works- we would have to have requested a hearing by December 13th to be heard in January. The incident occurred December 14th so that puts his hearing out until February unless the school agrees to pay for an emergency appeal - if you can get one. The reason I went further than my initial question was because someone asked. My initial question was vague because I knew everyone would want to weigh in with their opinion.
  7. We have presented everything possible and have asked them to reduce the suspension based on witness accounts and the opposing wrestler saying he didn’t think he was bitten. But as I set out to prove with my original post, I got my answer...an athletic association will never rule against their officials. We are going in front of a sectional appeals committee to have the infraction removed from his record, but by the time we are granted a hearing his suspension will have been served. If the sectional appeals committee overrules the official what are they going to say? Sorry? We can’t get that time or lost opportunity back. Their appeals system is seriously flawed and needs to change. They govern themselves with no checks and balances until it’s too late. Due process? Nope! Something needs to change.
  8. What’s even more frustrating... I contacted the NHFS to ask them for clarification of the rules and they replied that they “don’t interpret rules for parents.” Seriously?
  9. Per NFHS rules: “Referees should pay close attention to a cross-face applied to the area of the mouth, especially when the mouth is open. If teeth marks are present after the cross-face is applied to the mouth, the referee should only call biting if he/she believes the wrestler actually bit down on his/her opponent.“ If a person actually bites down there will be bruising and broken skin. I find it crazy that referee’s aren’t required to document a call such as biting with photos when it can knock a kid off the mat for 6 weeks. “Actually bit down” is intent. So is it a bite, or is it teeth marks?
  10. @MadMardigain We did ask them why they are penalizing for a biting call when it wasn’t intentional and the result of an open mouth crossface. The FHSAA doesn’t care. They won’t go against an official’s call. I didn’t say the opposing wrestler should be penalized, I said the ref should be held responsible for allowing an illegal maneuver or potentially dangerous maneuver to go on for 7 seconds then call biting. I am grateful to the opposing wrestler for coming forward to say that he didn’t think he was bitten intentionally or maliciously. Please read my post again. In no way am I saying that this is the other wrestler’s fault.
  11. Yes. Wrestler drove a hard crossface into my son’s open mouth for about 7 seconds. The ref stopped the match and called biting because there were teeth marks on the kid’s arm. Both the opposing team’s coach and the wrestler himself said they didn’t feel like it was an intentional bite, just the fact that his mouth was open during the crossface and the kids arm was literally in his mouth. The FHSAA has suspended my son for 8 points, roughly 25 matches. The executive director of the FHSAA and his assistant won’t reverse the referee’s call, even with a letter from the opposing coach saying it wasn’t an intentional bite. We have to go in front of a sectional appeals committee which will take weeks, his suspension will be completed by then. Just wondering why the ref isn’t being held responsible for not calling a potentially dangerous hold in the first place. Apparently, the FHSAA And their officials answers to no one. We even submitted video and pictures of the boy’s arm that show no teeth marks and they are still saying it was unsportsmanlike conduct. Very frustrating.
  12. Thank you for your response AHamilton. My wording was incorrect. This is the rule as it is written by the NFHS. My interpretation would be if the mouth is covered it’s illegal.
  13. This is my first time on this forum, so please forgive me if I make any mistakes. I have a question about NFHS guidelines. In Florida High School Wrestling: Scenario: opponent 1 is face down on the mat with opponent 2 on top. Opponent 2 drives a very hard crossface across opponent 1’s open mouth completely covering it for more than 6 seconds. As an official you are standing directly in front of both opponents. Do you stop the match due to the fact that opponent 1’s mouth is completely covered? From what I have read according to NFHS rules, any maneuver that completely covers the mouth, nose, throat or neck that could restrict breathing is illegal. Would you allow this to go on for over 6 seconds? Is it illegal to completely cover the mouth during a crossface in high school wrestling? Can’t seem to get a straight answer from the FHSAA. Thanks for any input.
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