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He would probably also be very good at disc golf and badminton. 

 

And now back to wrestling:  Herbert should compete for bronze with the right draw. 

Uh oh. A really tough guy just logged on. Watch out everyone. 

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Snyder's just rompin out there!

 

I'm not being dismissive, but trying to keep it in perspective: Did he beat anyone good today? I mean he obviously pounded three competitors who are top tier in their countries, but how good of a sign is this for his progress? 

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Rey's match is why I wouldn't want a step out rule in Folkstyle.  He just wrestled Sumo for 12 minutes in the Semis and Finals and won a gold for it.  I would prefer an automatic fleeing the mat call for anytime a defensive wrestler initiates going out of bounds.  But don't reward the offensive guy for pushing and shoving. 

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Does Gill have any credentials? Snyder just manhandled him.

Last March, Gill Arjun won the silver medal at the ASICS Senior Canadian Wrestling Championships and now he represents Canada internationally in Toronto (hmm). Last year in July, he won the gold medal in the men’s 97 kg freestyle at the 2014 Commonwealth Games and represented Canada at 2014 world wrestling championships.

Edited by OKnowwhut

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Rey's match is why I wouldn't want a step out rule in Folkstyle.  He just wrestled Sumo for 12 minutes in the Semis and Finals and won a gold for it.  I would prefer an automatic fleeing the mat call for anytime a defensive wrestler initiates going out of bounds.  But don't reward the offensive guy for pushing and shoving. 

I agree that Rey did very little that looked anything like offense, but if he stays in position, controls the action, and can't be scored on for 6 minutes, then I believe he deserves to win more than a guy who flails around more while getting pushed out of bounds. 

It's not fun to watch for me either, but Rey is pretty good at what he does. 

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Rey's match is why I wouldn't want a step out rule in Folkstyle.  He just wrestled Sumo for 12 minutes in the Semis and Finals and won a gold for it.  I would prefer an automatic fleeing the mat call for anytime a defensive wrestler initiates going out of bounds.  But don't reward the offensive guy for pushing and shoving. 

Not the best example... Do you remember Rey's folkstyle matches?

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I don't think Gill has any major international credentials.

 

I haven't seen the 125 kg match but on the Canadian side many are saying he should have been cautioned for passivity. It really goes seem like the referees hate Jarvis, he's had many calls go against him in his career.

 

I liked the way Salas sets up his doubles, backing into a level change. Very sneaky. That arm throw counter was sweet as well. Fantastic wrestler.

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I agree that Rey did very little that looked anything like offense, but if he stays in position, controls the action, and can't be scored on for 6 minutes, then I believe he deserves to win more than a guy who flails around more while getting pushed out of bounds. 

It's not fun to watch for me either, but Rey is pretty good at what he does. 

I think Rey 100% deserved to win.  He had almost no offense but it was still more offense than any opponent had against him.  Everyone he wrestled blocked off and never shot, and did a far worse job of it than he did.

 

My comments were more a response to a handful of comments today praising the pushout rule and asking for it in folkstyle.  I like that the pushout rule creates offense by eliminating the "run for the sideline" defense.  I don't like that it rewards pushing a guy out.  I don't like that many guys who have a single lifted will just walk it out of bounds rather than finish.  In folkstyle you only gain a point for a TD if you give up an escape, so pushing a guy out for 1 would be even more rewarded.  That's why I would prefer a rule that penalizes the defensive guy for going backwards rather than rewarding the offensive guy for pushing.  

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I think Rey 100% deserved to win.  He had almost no offense but it was still more offense than any opponent had against him.  Everyone he wrestled blocked off and never shot, and did a far worse job of it than he did.

 

My comments were more a response to a handful of comments today praising the pushout rule and asking for it in folkstyle.  I like that the pushout rule creates offense by eliminating the "run for the sideline" defense.  I don't like that it rewards pushing a guy out.  I don't like that many guys who have a single lifted will just walk it out of bounds rather than finish.  In folkstyle you only gain a point for a TD if you give up an escape, so pushing a guy out for 1 would be even more rewarded.  That's why I would prefer a rule that penalizes the defensive guy for going backwards rather than rewarding the offensive guy for pushing.  

Something neneds to be done in Folkstyle.  My understanding of the new Greco rules are that you only get a point for a pushout if you are executing a wrestling move... no points for just pushing.  While this seems logical, I thinks it leaves way too much up to the ref's discretion.

 

I also think that the extra point for the TD v. pushout makes wrestlers work really hard for getting the TD once they get the single leg. I did no see anyone jsut walking their opponent out of bounds yesterday once they had the single leg in the air.  In the old FS rules (before the pushout) you got one point for a TD or if you wnet out of bounds with your opponent in danger position (i.e. caught in a single).  I never like that rule

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I think Rey 100% deserved to win.  He had almost no offense but it was still more offense than any opponent had against him.  Everyone he wrestled blocked off and never shot, and did a far worse job of it than he did.

 

My comments were more a response to a handful of comments today praising the pushout rule and asking for it in folkstyle.  I like that the pushout rule creates offense by eliminating the "run for the sideline" defense.  I don't like that it rewards pushing a guy out.  I don't like that many guys who have a single lifted will just walk it out of bounds rather than finish.  In folkstyle you only gain a point for a TD if you give up an escape, so pushing a guy out for 1 would be even more rewarded.  That's why I would prefer a rule that penalizes the defensive guy for going backwards rather than rewarding the offensive guy for pushing.  

You could just make TDs worth three points, and have one-point push outs. 

 

I also think we should get rid of riding time points. Nobody wants to watch a guy ride another guy for entire period. If you can't score from the top after 30 seconds, time to stand up. 

 

I'm loving all the techs at Pan Ams. We could get the same thing going here, but for some reason people feel like they need to stick with old rules that have never worked. 

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push out or no, Rey's matches aren't going to change much. 

 

very entertaining tournament, despite the lack of 2nd mat coverage and crap announcing. hopefully all the pan am countries will wrestle well in the worlds with home-hemisphere advantage.

I agree. Canada and Cuba always have some tough guys. Puerto Rico has Gomez and Espinal. Venezuela is making some progress. Roberty did beat Tsargush back in 2011, and at the Pan Am Games they won gold in Greco (at 66kg). I was happy to see that Ecuador also won a gold in Greco (at 59kg), and that Brazil won a gold as well in women's freestyle (at 58 kg). If Brazil ever got on board with wrestling I bet they would eventually produce some high-end wrestlers. 

 

Also, it was fascinating to see how Salas may be picking stuff up from Burroughs. I don't follow him closely or anything, but his doubles and reshots reminded me of Burroughs -- and I have to wonder whether he wrestled like that before Burroughs came on the scene. Burroughs's style is certainly not one international guys normally have. 

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I also think we should get rid of riding time points. Nobody wants to watch a guy ride another guy for entire period. If you can't score from the top after 30 seconds, time to stand up.

 

This would only result in the bottom man clamming up. Unless you're Logan Stieber or wrestling a very overmatched opponent, very few wrestlers can turn another in a true 30-second go, since it's such a short time that the bottom guy can just turtle up and flex for 30 seconds. That's probably one of the hardest things to do in wrestling.

 

A few years ago, when JO was at 149, Mark Bader from Flo challenged JO in the OSU room. 30-second go, JO turns him, he wins, Bader stalls him out without getting turned, Bader wins. Bader won.

 

The two best ways to improve mat wrestling are to eliminate at least 3/4 of the potentially dangerous calls (which were rarely made until about 10-15 years ago) and to call stalling appropriately--which means for both the top AND bottom man.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Re Wrestlingnerd's example involving the Bader-Oliver death match:

You misstate the rules of the challenge. Oliver had to cradle Bader, not just turn him. He could not cradle him because Bader was not worried about being turned with butcher/bundle, something that Oliver could have done at any point. Oliver's cradle works because if the bottom man doesn't frog leg, he gets turned with butcher/bundle.

Edited by jackwebster

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This would only result in the bottom man clamming up. Unless you're Logan Stieber or wrestling a very overmatched opponent, very few wrestlers can turn another in a true 30-second go, since it's such a short time that the bottom guy can just turtle up and flex for 30 seconds. That's probably one of the hardest things to do in wrestling.

 

A few years ago, when JO was at 149, Mark Bader from Flo challenged JO in the OSU room. 30-second go, JO turns him, he wins, Bader stalls him out without getting turned, Bader wins. Bader won.

 

The two best ways to improve mat wrestling are to eliminate at least 3/4 of the potentially dangerous calls (which were rarely made until about 10-15 years ago) and to call stalling appropriately--which means for both the top AND bottom man.

i'm in favor of eliminating riding time, standing people up after 30 seconds AND calling stalling appropriately, for both top and bottom man.

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Re Wrestlingnerd's example involving the Bader-Oliver death match:

You misstate the rules of the challenge. Oliver had to cradle Bader, not just turn him. He could not cradle him because Bader was not worried about being turned with butcher/bundle, something that Oliver could have done at any point. Oliver's cradle works because if the bottom man doesn't frog leg, he gets turned with butcher/bundle.

 

Bader wrestled 125 and never sniffed AA. JO is one of the best wrestlers in NCAA history and was a full 149 lber close to his athletic peak age-wise in the offseason during this "challenge". Bader was in his 30s, more than a decade removed from his last competitive match.

 

Your point?

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Bader wrestled 125 and never sniffed AA. JO is one of the best wrestlers in NCAA history and was a full 149 lber close to his athletic peak age-wise in the offseason during this "challenge". Bader was in his 30s, more than a decade removed from his last competitive match.

 

Your point?

I was just correcting details. Nerds are usually interested in this sort of thing. I wasn't contesting your larger point. (However, your error makes it seem as if you never tried to defend a cross-face cradle... Or never tried to describe it in prose.)

BTW I don't know why you use scare quotes. The parties involved used the term.

Edited by jackwebster

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