Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Flying-Tiger

Marable Wins Arbitration; Forces Wrestle-Off

Recommended Posts

Same thing happened with Lindland/Sieracki.  And Lewis/Smith.  These things are pretty rare. 

 

Can't speak to Lewis/Smith, but I think Sieracki went through a much worse situation than Green is facing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sieracki basically got off a plane from an overseas meet and had to weigh in and wrestle-off.  While I think Lindland was the better wrestler, I think this was kind of an ambush.  And I think Lindland got a really bad call in the original bout.  Botched in so many ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad calls happen, unfortunately.  Lindland also appeared to bite Sieracki on the ear during the match without a call.  

 

The fact that an arbitrator was able to come in and overrule the match officials is what I feel is most egregious about the Lindland/Sieracki debacle.  

Edited by Rhackler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many people ACTUALLY know what happened?  How many of you actually think so little of Marable that you believe he is the kind of guy that would cheat the system?  How many of you think you are actually smarter than Madie Oliveau?  She happens to have received her law degree from Georgetown in 1977(Undergrad in '74) and has been an arbitrator for the Court of Arbitration for Sport(since 1997) specializing in International cases including Anti-doping protocol and U.S. Olympic Committee Conduct.  What in the world would she have to gain by granting this to Marable unjustly?  I can't believe she ruled in his favor without his putting forth a legitimate case that would warrant such a decision.

 

I know social media makes everyone think they know everything without actually being there, but COME ON!  Very few of those posting have any concrete evidence, yet nearly all have formed a concrete opinion and are slamming someone without actually knowing what happened.  Nancy Grace here you come..........

Edited by MSU158

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, for one, Marable's coach showed at NCAA's that he is willing to go against the spirit of the rules when he ordered a review of "locked hands" when his wrestler was broken down flat during OT to give him a fresh start. Sorry, Sammy doesn't get the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

 

Also, Dom Bradley didn't do Marable any favors telling people around the warm up area that Marable wasn't making weight (with no mention of an injury).

 

What they should do is release the justification for the decision. If it is all above board then there is no reason it can't be released. Redact the pertinent medical info and let's see it.

Edited by wrestlingphish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me say that IF he has cheated the system I 100% think it is BS.  My only issue is so many think he has without getting near the amount of info the Arbitrator received to make her decision.  No matter what,  I fee bad for Green.  Still, IF Marable being injured is the main reason he was unable to wrestle in the WTT he DESERVES to be able to Wrestle-Off.  Everyone has been aware of this rule for some time now.  I have no issue with disliking the rule itself.  However, disliking Marable for using the rule(assuming he did so honestly) bothers me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am much smarter than Madie Oliveau in the realm of wrestling and its time-honored rules and traditions, a couple of them being if you don't make weight you're out and if you are injured and can't compete you unfortunately miss your chance. That's life.  And I think the people who made the rules that govern the conduct of our trials are smarter than Madie Oliveau in the realm of how a World wrestling team should be selected.

 

As far as "evidence" goes, there is plenty.  The final trials had very clear rules about what is allowed and not allowed within 18 hours of weigh-in.  Marable failed to meet those rules.  If he was injured and wanted an extension, he needed to file more than 18 hours before.  He didn't.  Within 18 hours, he had to weigh in.  He didn't.  If he truly has a concussion, that is unfortunate but we all know that the sport of wrestling and life in general can be very cruel. Whether he tripped on a treadmill and hit his head or not really is immaterial to the rules that he and everyone else in the process agreed to abide by beforehand.

 

I like many of the responses I saw on this link:  http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251734-Wrestling-News-and-Updates/article/32522-Wrestling-World-Reacts-To-Green-Marable-Decision#.VazzT_lViko.  Ness and Gavin's responses were my favorite.

 

If it's all about sending the "best" guy, then why not replace Herbert with Ruth?  Sure, Herbert has had Ruth's number of late but many feel that at Worlds Ruth can be more effective.  The answer is simple: Herbert won the spot through the established rules, despite whether anyone is right/wrong about Ruth's potential to go deeper in the meet.  Everyone agreed to the rules ahead of time and honored them.

 

And what if Green pulls a hammy getting ready for this wrestle-off after being told he was the World Team member?  Does he get an extension?  Does he go to Madie Oliveau with his lawyers?  And what about the psychology of being told you are the guy and you begin training for a meet to suddenly being told, whoa, about that Worlds thing, yeah, you're not really on the team yet?  If Green beats Marable, his preparation for the big meet is completed disrupted.  Maybe Madie Oliveau can explain this to UWW and get Green an extension to meet the September world champ at a later date when he's had ideal time to train and make weight.

 

This is entire situation is an embarrassment to the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad calls happen, unfortunately.  Lindland also appeared to bit Sieracki on the ear during the match without a call.  

 

The fact that an arbitrator was able to come in and overrule the match officials is what I feel is most egregious about the Lindland/Sieracki debacle.  

I forgot about Lindland's Mike Tyson impersonation!  While after the fact Lindland proved the "best" choice because he took silver (something Sieracki I don't feel would have done) I always felt bad for Sieracki because that whole "redo" match was rigged against him from the start.  The arbitrator had no idea what it meant to have to make weight on little notice after a draining flight home from overseas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am much smarter than Madie Oliveau in the realm of wrestling and its time-honored rules and traditions, a couple of them being if you don't make weight you're out and if you are injured and can't compete you unfortunately miss your chance. That's life.  And I think the people who made the rules that govern the conduct of our trials are smarter than Madie Oliveau in the realm of how a World wrestling team should be selected.

 

As far as "evidence" goes, there is plenty.  The final trials had very clear rules about what is allowed and not allowed within 18 hours of weigh-in.  Marable failed to meet those rules.  If he was injured and wanted an extension, he needed to file more than 18 hours before.  He didn't.  Within 18 hours, he had to weigh in.  He didn't.  If he truly has a concussion, that is unfortunate but we all know that the sport of wrestling and life in general can be very cruel. Whether he tripped on a treadmill and hit his head or not really is immaterial to the rules that he and everyone else in the process agreed to abide by beforehand.

 

I like many of the responses I saw on this link:  http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251734-Wrestling-News-and-Updates/article/32522-Wrestling-World-Reacts-To-Green-Marable-Decision#.VazzT_lViko.  Ness and Gavin's responses were my favorite.

 

If it's all about sending the "best" guy, then why not replace Herbert with Ruth?  Sure, Herbert has had Ruth's number of late but many feel that at Worlds Ruth can be more effective.  The answer is simple: Herbert won the spot through the established rules, despite whether anyone is right/wrong about Ruth's potential to go deeper in the meet.  Everyone agreed to the rules ahead of time and honored them.

 

And what if Green pulls a hammy getting ready for this wrestle-off after being told he was the World Team member?  Does he get an extension?  Does he go to Madie Oliveau with his lawyers?  And what about the psychology of being told you are the guy and you begin training for a meet to suddenly being told, whoa, about that Worlds thing, yeah, you're not really on the team yet?  If Green beats Marable, his preparation for the big meet is completed disrupted.  Maybe Madie Oliveau can explain this to UWW and get Green an extension to meet the September world champ at a later date when he's had ideal time to train and make weight.

 

This is entire situation is an embarrassment to the sport.

 

Gonna be pretty awkward if Marable makes the team with potential teammates and training partners taking such a strong public stand against the situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach_J,

 

For all that you said, I am at a loss as to why Marable was allowed to appeal.   But, there actually is a rule in place and Marable was obviously able to present a case that was compelling enough to warrant an impartial arbitrator siding in his favor.

 

Again, feel free to hate the rule.  But, all the Marable hate bothers me.  The guy has dedicated himself to wrestling.  He is one of 2 guys to beat Burroughs in International competition.  I may be in the minority, but I am willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I missed weight once in 8th grade due to an unfortunate circumstance, my teachers expected me to be in class not cut weight. Where do I send my appeal too get that match back? Not sure I can make the cut to 83lb now but if so I'm sure I can take that guy and pad my undefeated Middle School records.

Edited by MadMardigain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IV. Delays or Replacement Due to Injury or Illness
A. If, in any weight class or style, the athlete earning an automatic berth into the Final Wrestle-Off is unable to compete in the Final Wrestle-Off due to injury or illness, the wrestler may request of the style specific Sport Committee a delay of competition. The Sport Committee shall determine whether or not the delay shall be granted. The injury or illness must be certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling. USA Wrestling approval of a medical doctor will not be unreasonably withheld. If a request for delay of the Final Wrestle-Off is made within 18 hours of the weigh-in, the athlete will be required to weigh-in and make weight at the qualified weight and have the illness or injury certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling; provided, however, that the Sport Committee may excuse this weigh-in requirement if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances. The date and place of wrestle-off will be established by the National Coach with agreement of the athletes involved. If agreement cannot be reached, then the date and place of the wrestle-off will be determined by the appropriate Sport Committee.

Many seem to forget the rule doesn't let EVERYONE who had that happen to them appeal.  You have to meet special criteria.  See above:

 

Marable EARNED the right to be in the final match and ONLY those special circumstances allow for an injured or ill wrestler to appeal.

Edited by MSU158

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Section 9.7 Arbitration. If the complaint is not settled to the athlete’s satisfaction the
athlete may file a claim with the AAA against the respondent for final and binding arbitration. If
an impending competition requires immediate resolution of the complaint, an athlete may file a
claim with the AAA simultaneously with the filing of the complaint with the CEO.
The corporation has the right to participate in the arbitration proceeding, but it cannot be
involuntarily joined by a party.
The arbitrator shall render a reasoned award in writing. All such awards shall be made
public and may be published on the corporation’s website.
Section 9.8 Affected Parties. In any arbitration brought pursuant to this Section 9, the
athlete filing the claim with the AAA shall submit with the claim a list of all individuals the
athlete believes may be adversely affected by the arbitration. The respondent shall also promptly
submit to the AAA a list of individuals it believes may be adversely affected by the arbitration,
along with the relevant contact information for the individuals identified by the respondent and
by the athlete. The arbitrator may also determine that individuals not listed by either the athlete
or the respondent shall be given notice. The arbitrator shall then promptly determine which
individuals must receive notice of the arbitration. The arbitrator shall also approve the notice to
be given. Unless determined otherwise by the arbitrator, the AAA shall then be responsible for
providing notice to those individuals. Any individual so notified of the claim, shall have the
option to participate in the arbitration as a party. If an individual is notified of the claim, then
that individual shall be bound by the decision of the arbitrator even though the individual chose
not to participate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a request for delay of the Final Wrestle-Off is made within 18 hours of the weigh-in, the athlete will be required to weigh-in and make weight at the qualified weight and have the illness or injury certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling; provided, however, that the Sport Committee may excuse this weigh-in requirement if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances.

>>>>>

Was this written by KMF when he was under the spell of the demon rum?  Required, but may be excused?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As far as "evidence" goes, there is plenty.  The final trials had very clear rules about what is allowed and not allowed within 18 hours of weigh-in.  Marable failed to meet those rules.  If he was injured and wanted an extension, he needed to file more than 18 hours before.  He didn't.  Within 18 hours, he had to weigh in.  He didn't.  If he truly has a concussion, that is unfortunate but we all know that the sport of wrestling and life in general can be very cruel. Whether he tripped on a treadmill and hit his head or not really is immaterial to the rules that he and everyone else in the process agreed to abide by beforehand.

 

 

I understand your sentiment here Coach J, but you are just flat out wrong about the Marable failing to meet any rules.  

 

"If a request for delay of the Final Wrestle-Off is made within 18 hours of the weigh-in, the athlete will be required to weigh-in and make weight at the qualified weight and have the illness or injury certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling; provided, however, that the Sport Committee may excuse this weigh-in requirement if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances"

 

How do you interpret that rule to mean that Marable had to "file more than 18 hours before?"  Do you not understand the word within?  

 

Furthermore, he doesn't have to weigh-in "if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances."  The arbitrator decided this was the case.  

  

I'm sorry you weren't born with the mental capacity for solid reading comprehension, but don't take it out on Marable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IV. Delays or Replacement Due to Injury or Illness
A. If, in any weight class or style, the athlete earning an automatic berth into the Final Wrestle-Off is unable to compete in the Final Wrestle-Off due to injury or illness, the wrestler may request of the style specific Sport Committee a delay of competition. The Sport Committee shall determine whether or not the delay shall be granted. The injury or illness must be certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling. USA Wrestling approval of a medical doctor will not be unreasonably withheld. If a request for delay of the Final Wrestle-Off is made within 18 hours of the weigh-in, the athlete will be required to weigh-in and make weight at the qualified weight and have the illness or injury certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling; provided, however, that the Sport Committee may excuse this weigh-in requirement if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances. The date and place of wrestle-off will be established by the National Coach with agreement of the athletes involved. If agreement cannot be reached, then the date and place of the wrestle-off will be determined by the appropriate Sport Committee.

Many seem to forget the rule doesn't let EVERYONE who had that happen to them appeal.  You have to meet special criteria.  See above:

 

Marable EARNED the right to be in the final match and ONLY those special circumstances allow for an injured or ill wrestler to appeal.

 

 

Marable earned that right on an extremely controversial call that gave him the win over Schlatter (which with the video we have I am not sure how you could have ever given Marable 4 there).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many times Marable beat Burroughs or anyone else is immaterial.  How hard he works is immaterial (95% of the guys who took part in the process give an unearthly amount of effort to be there).  Whether or not he's a nice guy has nothing to do with anything (and I don't get the conclusion that if you disagree with the decision you are a "hater," which is absurd; I have no feeling toward Marable one way or another).  He failed to meet the clearly stated 18 hour rule, which everyone else abided by.  He did earn the right to a finals match, but he was unprepared to take part when the bell rang.  The times I've seen wrestling issues go to an arbiter (none of whom has any knowledge of how wrestling works) the results have been disastrous:  having a match restarted in the middle; having a guy weigh in and compete a few days after an international flight and competition, etc.  I like USA Wrestling's rule; I absolutely hate the arbiter clause, which to me renders all other rules meaningless.

 

And please answer this: what happens to Green if he's not 100% for this wrestle-off?

 

And, knowing a thing or two about severe concussions, this is food for thought as well:  if this concussion was so bad he had to miss the biggest event of the year, how is Marable going to be cleared, prepared, and ready to do a best 2 of 3 wrestle-off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand your sentiment here Coach J, but you are just flat out wrong about the Marable failing to meet any rules.  

 

"If a request for delay of the Final Wrestle-Off is made within 18 hours of the weigh-in, the athlete will be required to weigh-in and make weight at the qualified weight and have the illness or injury certified in writing by a medical doctor approved by USA Wrestling; provided, however, that the Sport Committee may excuse this weigh-in requirement if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances"

 

How do you interpret that rule to mean that Marable had to "file more than 18 hours before?"  Do you not understand the word within?  

 

Furthermore, he doesn't have to weigh-in "if the basis for delay is determined by the Sport Committee to be due to unforeseen or extenuating circumstances."  The arbitrator decided this was the case.  

  

I'm sorry you weren't born with the mental capacity for solid reading comprehension, but don't take it out on Marable.

Sorry I'm not at your Mensa level of intellect (yes, full sarcasm), but you are obviously the one with the reading deficit.  The rule says if he files within 18 hours he still has to weigh in, UNLESS the Sport Committee excuses him.  The Sport Committee did not grant this, Einstein.  Please return your best ad hominem; the last one was weak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach_J,

 

After reading your last response, we don't differ as much as I thought on this subject.  The arbiter clause is hard to swallow.  My only issue with this topic has been the personal attacks on Marable.  You have stated your argument is against the situation itself and I respect that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach_J,

 

After reading your last response, we don't differ as much as I thought on this subject.  The arbiter clause is hard to swallow.  My only issue with this topic has been the personal attacks on Marable.  You have stated your argument is against the situation itself and I respect that.

Respect returned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...