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Flying-Tiger

Marable Wins Arbitration; Forces Wrestle-Off

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Flo just posted this podcast about this situation and directly references this thread:

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251957-Flowrestling-Radio-Live/article/32528-Flo-Radio-Archive-Inside-The-Arbitration-Of-Green-And-Marable#.Va0pTLVcp2B

 

Highlights:

 

-The arbitration was done via conference call

-Marable was 1lb over, fell and suffered a concussion

-USAW contended that this was a foreseen circumstance from not properly cutting weight

-USAW says they believe Marable was injured and backtracks during conference call

-Green's attorney requested Marable's medical records from being weighed at the doctor (apparently he was 171lbs)

-Husker Du not impressed

Edited by GoNotQuietly

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Was one pound over, fell, and got concussed. LOL. That's some world class coordination right there and might be the most convenient fall in history (and obviously a load of crap). I wish there would be a provision that requires Marable to outplace Green in an international tournament of his (Green's) choice as well. I don't think Marable would be beating world bronze medalists any time soon. 

 

I also think it will be interesting to see how the other world team members respond to this, as well as the fans. IF he beats Green he will be the only American I don't root for come Worlds. In fact, I'd want to see him go 0-1 at that point. But maybe I'm just a hater.

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Was one pound over, fell, and got concussed. LOL. That's some world class coordination right there and might be the most convenient fall in history (and obviously a load of crap). I wish there would be a provision that requires Marable to outplace Green in an international tournament of his (Green's) choice as well. I don't think Marable would be beating world bronze medalists any time soon. 

 

I also think it will be interesting to see how the other world team members respond to this, as well as the fans. IF he beats Green he will be the only American I don't root for come Worlds. In fact, I'd want to see him go 0-1 at that point. But maybe I'm just a hater.

 

You're just a hater. Nobody other than Marable can know with complete certainty what happened. But if he beats Green and represents our country, I will be rooting for him against anyone.

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Flo just posted this podcast about this situation and directly references this thread:

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251957-Flowrestling-Radio-Live/article/32528-Flo-Radio-Archive-Inside-The-Arbitration-Of-Green-And-Marable#.Va0pTLVcp2B

 

Highlights:

 

-The arbitration was done via conference call

-Marable was 1lb over, fell and suffered a concussion

-USAW contended that this was a foreseen circumstance from not properly cutting weight

-USAW says they believe Marable was injured and backtracks during conference call

-Green's attorney requested Marable's medical records from being weighed at the doctor (apparently he was 171lbs)

-Husker Du not impressed

If all that is true, then I'm not impressed either. I was much more comfortable not knowing the details.

 

The 171 shouldn't be taken out of context, however. Assuming he was in the process of rehydrating and was wearing full clothing, as one does at a doctor's office, it's entirely possible that he was within a pound an hour earlier. 

 

It's easy to say what I would do if in Marable's position: be humiliated and get on with my life.

 

However, my life doesn't revolve entirely around being a wrestler, so with that in mind, I still can't hate him for appealing and using the system in place to continue to achieve his goals. 

 

 

GNQ, your question about the financial situation is especially pressing in this regard. The top three are on the "National Team", right? Before the appeal was Marable considered our #2, #3, or not a team member? Green dec. Schlatter 2x in the WTT finals. Does this change anything about our top 3?

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If he was, in fact, only 1 lb. over would he have had sufficient time to cut that last pound?  I am sure most, if not all of us, have had to run off at least a lb after standing on the scale and being surprised(or not so surprised) that you were over.

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Sorry I'm not at your Mensa level of intellect (yes, full sarcasm), but you are obviously the one with the reading deficit.  The rule says if he files within 18 hours he still has to weigh in, UNLESS the Sport Committee excuses him.  The Sport Committee did not grant this, Einstein.  Please return your best ad hominem; the last one was weak.

And the arbitrator ruled that the Sport Committee was wrong.  Please tell me which rule Marable broke.

 

"Marable failed to meet those rules."  

 

Which rule did he break?  

Edited by ohcomeon

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And the arbitrator ruled that the Sport Committee was wrong.  Please tell me which rule Marable broke.

 

"Marable failed to meet those rules."  

 

Which rule did he break?  

Trying to have an intelligent discussion with you is like trying to play chess with a gerbil.  I'll cut to the chase and guess you are a friend, relative, teammate, or coach of Marable and you're here to defend him, which is great.  I have no dog in the fight and wish him the best.  What I care about here is someone who did not comply with the same rules as everyone else finding a way around them (and this issue seems to be widely held by other current World Team members as observed in their public reactions). Marable is a very good wrestler but he did not make weight when he was supposed to (whether because of injury or poor planning, it really doesn't matter--I never got a do over on a weigh in and this is just the common sense of the sport).  He did not file for an exemption outside the 18 hour limit and he did not make weight within it.  To get around those rules (which he did not comply with), the Sports Committee would have to have granted him a reprieve, which they did not do (are you following?).  Everyone else followed those rules.  The artibrator did not rule that anyone was wrong or that the rules everyone followed (but Marable) were wrong, only that in her opinion (not an expert one, as she has no involvement in wrestling) Marable deserved a wrestle-off (these are very different concepts but I don't expect you to be able to distinguish between the two).  And when you are attacking someone else's intelligence, it's a somewhat good idea to display some of your own.

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I am pretty sure that, by not competing, Marable was not on the National Team prior to his appeal.......

70KG FS_Green.jpg

                  1. James Green 

                  2. Dustin Schlatter 

                  3. Kevin LeValley 

I guess I could have just looked on the main page, here. You're right.
 
If Marable becomes our #1 or #2, does this change anything for LeValley?
Edited by denger

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some of the thinking in this thread is way off and some is pretty close to the truth. i was in madison and heard most of the chatter as it was happening real time. i was close enough to most of the people that matter to hear what was being relayed to them. you make your own judgment from the timeline.

 

:15 minutes before weigh-ins they can't find hochstrasser who was rumored have been talked off the ledge earlier in the day during his weight cut, and marable isn't going to make weight

 

both guys miss weigh-ins

 

a guy who is active on twitter heard the dr. discussion in the locker room to document the injury (this is the timeline that i heard it, obviously this happened before weigh-ins were over)

 

word leaks of marable being injured while passing out on the treadmill, all distributed by marable's camp

 

9:30 marable is seen in o'hare, not close enough to verify, but looks like he has a hospital bracelet on

 

for marable to be 17 over he couldn't have been within a pound if he went to the hospital in madison. i don't know where the doctor visit came into play so i won't pass judgment there. only marable knows the entire truth and he is the one to benefit by not telling the truth, so others will always be skeptical. i am not saying the story is impossible the way marable presented it, but the timeline and numbers are hard to believe.

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Trying to have an intelligent discussion with you is like trying to play chess with a gerbil.  I'll cut to the chase and guess you are a friend, relative, teammate, or coach of Marable and you're here to defend him, which is great.  I have no dog in the fight and wish him the best.  What I care about here is someone who did not comply with the same rules as everyone else finding a way around them (and this issue seems to be widely held by other current World Team members as observed in their public reactions). Marable is a very good wrestler but he did not make weight when he was supposed to (whether because of injury or poor planning, it really doesn't matter--I never got a do over on a weigh in and this is just the common sense of the sport).  He did not file for an exemption outside the 18 hour limit and he did not make weight within it.  To get around those rules (which he did not comply with), the Sports Committee would have to have granted him a reprieve, which they did not do (are you following?).  Everyone else followed those rules.  The artibrator did not rule that anyone was wrong or that the rules everyone followed (but Marable) were wrong, only that in her opinion (not an expert one, as she has no involvement in wrestling) Marable deserved a wrestle-off (these are very different concepts but I don't expect you to be able to distinguish between the two).  And when you are attacking someone else's intelligence, it's a somewhat good idea to display some of your own.

I see what you're saying, CoachJ. The rules were followed by USA Wrestling, as they determined that the incident on the treadmill was a result of poor weight management. Even if a doctor supported Marable's claim of being injured, the rules say that this decision will be determined by the Sports Committee. According to the rules, they make the call. If he had made weight, they could have still concluded that his concussion was a foreseen conclusion, and not allowed him to wrestle off. That's the rules

 

What we're dealing with is a both, and situation rather than an either, or. 

 

Marable is also acting within the rules to use the appeal process. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a respectable wrestler, that he thinks the incident was an unforeseen circumstance. The arbitrator, who has presumably never run on a treadmill while two gallons dehydrated and attempting to further dehydrate herself, agreed that this was unforeseen.

Furthermore, it seems that USA Wrestling conceded that he was injured by the circumstance (whether or not it was predictable), which is a valid question of their judgement: if he had suffered a concussion by any training exercise, why would he not be granted this wrestle off?

 

I don't like the precedent either, but everyone followed the rules as they are written. 

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Was one pound over, fell, and got concussed. LOL. That's some world class coordination right there and might be the most convenient fall in history (and obviously a load of crap). I wish there would be a provision that requires Marable to outplace Green in an international tournament of his (Green's) choice as well. I don't think Marable would be beating world bronze medalists any time soon. 

 

I also think it will be interesting to see how the other world team members respond to this, as well as the fans. IF he beats Green he will be the only American I don't root for come Worlds. In fact, I'd want to see him go 0-1 at that point. But maybe I'm just a hater.

When Lindland made the Olympic team through the courts, I found it hard to root for him, as I think Seiracki got an all time screw job

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I see what you're saying, CoachJ. The rules were followed by USA Wrestling, as they determined that the incident on the treadmill was a result of poor weight management. Even if a doctor supported Marable's claim of being injured, the rules say that this decision will be determined by the Sports Committee. According to the rules, they make the call. If he had made weight, they could have still concluded that his concussion was a foreseen conclusion, and not allowed him to wrestle off. That's the rules

 

What we're dealing with is a both, and situation rather than an either, or. 

 

Marable is also acting within the rules to use the appeal process. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a respectable wrestler, that he thinks the incident was an unforeseen circumstance. The arbitrator, who has presumably never run on a treadmill while two gallons dehydrated and attempting to further dehydrate herself, agreed that this was unforeseen.

Furthermore, it seems that USA Wrestling conceded that he was injured by the circumstance (whether or not it was predictable), which is a valid question of their judgement: if he had suffered a concussion by any training exercise, why would he not be granted this wrestle off?

 

I don't like the precedent either, but everyone followed the rules as they are written. 

they need to take the unforseen bit out of the rule. i don't care how it happens, if you are injured within 18 hours of weigh-ins you should have to get on the scale to be eligible for a special wrestle off. i don't even necessarily think you need to make weight, but get on the scale and show you were within striking distance when the injury prevented you from making it.

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they need to take the unforseen bit out of the rule. i don't care how it happens, if you are injured within 18 hours of weigh-ins you should have to get on the scale to be eligible for a special wrestle off. i don't even necessarily think you need to make weight, but get on the scale and show you were within striking distance when the injury prevented you from making it.

It isn't great language, but the appeal process would still be a thing, and could therefore still creep in just like it does here. And I would argue that it should be there to protect the fairness of our sport. Don't the Iranians send whoever they think is best, regardless of head to head?

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70KG FS_Green.jpg

                  1. James Green 

                  2. Dustin Schlatter 

                  3. Kevin LeValley 

I guess I could have just looked on the main page, here. You're right.
 
If Marable becomes our #1 or #2, does this change anything for LeValley?

 

 

 

Guess I could have looked it up as well.  This is just as much of a reason to appeal as actually going to Worlds, isn't it?  Is there anyone who legitimately doubts that Nick Marable is our #1 guy until he is beaten?  Whether or not he is the guy who gets to go to Vegas, he certainly doesn't want to lose his job (National Team) over one weigh-in.  Basically had to appeal given the circumstances.   

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Seriously though, concussions can be serious. If Marable suffered a concussion, I hope he consults at least one doctor before returning to action. Your mental health is a lot more important than wrestling. 

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