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Angry_Fish

Non World Team Members now have to Root Against USA in Worlds

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Now that the World team is offially set, its time for all the guys (and their fans?) who did not make the team to root againt the USA at Worlds.  The adavantage given to returning medal winners (at OTTs) is so great that it virtually forces you to root against the guys on the USA World team.  As a fan, I hate the system.

 

I'm a big fan of Oliver, Ruth and Taylor.  All got beat fairly at WTTs and are not on the World Team.  I will not really be rooting against Metcalf, Herbert and JB at World's, but I'd be lying if the current system does affect my rooting interest for these 3 guys.   Hate it.

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The fish is angry indeed!  I look at it this way:  if you are a returning world medalist, you have earned some type of consideration.  The best countries in the world aren't making their best guys wrestle a dozen matches to earn their spots--it's grueling and takes away from the big picture of prepping for the big meet.

 

I don't have a problem with a returning medalist getting a bye into the semi-finals.  In the case of returning world team member/current national champ, I think the final should be 2 of three after getting a bye into the semis.  Also, I don't like a guy wrestling a full 8 man bracket tournament and not getting any recovery time in challenging the top guy.  So stacked against the mini-tournament winner as to be a joke and completely artificial.

 

In Russia, they have a coaching staff paid to select the team.  We do the same in our professional sports.  That's part of what a coach should do--have the ability to assess talent, weigh the past results from opens and grand prix events, and know who has the best chance to go the furthest.  Hard to argue with their results relative to ours.

 

Just my opinion for the time being.

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Have a mini tournament early in the process, put together a robin of top 3 with the returning medalist being one of the three. If no medalist at a weight, then top three of mini tournament are in the round robin. If there is a medalist top two of mini tournament go with a true third being contested. Hold the round robin at least 3 or 4 weeks after the mini.

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no thats for world medalists.....you're missing something very important about this issue

 

What?  Anyone who wins a medal in World's this year, gets a bye in OTT finals next year (assuming they don't change the system.  What am I missing?

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What Hasek said.

 

Meanwhile in Iran Souryan literally walked out during the trials instead of wrestling, lost first round during his "second chance tournament" and they are still considering puttibg him in the team (as per UWW news feed ).

 

Also the Russian Greco champ beats Sourian then loses, while the previous years world team guy wins the tournament. Wonder who us going to worlds.

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I am a super USA fan but currently the other countries that are beating us have better wrestlers and it is not their selection process that is beating us.

Exactly.  But I think there is some connection.  Russians, Turks, Azeris, Iranians, etc., spend far more time on technique and tactics beginning at a very early age.  We teach some technique but add in a ton of weight training, running, etc.  In mat training, we emphasize live wrestling; the other top nations technique and drilling and corrections.

 

In the realm of selecting a team, those nations rely on expert coaches (who have been working with all the top guys) to make the tough decisions.  They don't bother with a system that makes sure it's "fair" for the #6 ranked guy in every weight to have a shot. Want a chance?  Work your way into the top 3-4 guys.  Our process is a colossal waste of time, but we persist in this system.  The other nations are too busy training and preparing for the big meet to waste time doing this.

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As far as comparing countries, there's probably a lot of different variables to point to. (Gov't sponsorship, funding, etc.)

 

But one angle I keep seeing where American wrestlers lose, is when they get their spines rotated and their backs exposed "out of nowhere".  (I'll give examples if you want them.)

 

Again, just talking as a fan here, and yes of course all the American wrestlers are different, and some are among the best in the world, but it sure seems like most American wrestlers come out looking for a single, double, hi-c, or ankle pick with heavy head pressure. And seems like the best countries know this and sit and wait to score their points when there.

 

Not a coach or technician, but as a fan, would love to see the Americans show off ALL their talent and throw some change-ups, and hit more upper body stuff and folkstyle ingrained stuff such as fireman's, Gadson's, even a headlock once in while. Other countries use them successfully.

 

Once again, just talking as a fan. Not trying to out-coach anyone.    

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Exactly.  But I think there is some connection.  Russians, Turks, Azeris, Iranians, etc., spend far more time on technique and tactics beginning at a very early age.  We teach some technique but add in a ton of weight training, running, etc.  In mat training, we emphasize live wrestling; the other top nations technique and drilling and corrections.

 

In the realm of selecting a team, those nations rely on expert coaches (who have been working with all the top guys) to make the tough decisions.  They don't bother with a system that makes sure it's "fair" for the #6 ranked guy in every weight to have a shot. Want a chance?  Work your way into the top 3-4 guys.  Our process is a colossal waste of time, but we persist in this system.  The other nations are too busy training and preparing for the big meet to waste time doing this.

Since we don't have their training system, we do not have an expert coach that has been working with all of the top guys. Lets imagine you are king for a day.  Can you lay out the sweeping changes required to implement a system like Russia or Iran has?  Is it practical?

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Fwiw Russia has a national championship that decides 90% of the world team. Only if the champion struggles in subsequent events will they reconsider, and then it seems to be a wrestle off or a "winner goes" tournament. Over the last few years Gatsalov is the only freestyler I can think of who has list at nationals and gone to worlds.

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2td, I agree.

 

One of my pet theories is done smart American wrestlers learn to excel domestically by mastering these positions, often beating guys who may be better athletes or leg attack wrestlers. (Hrovat, Frayer, the Paulsons come to mind). When it comes to wrestle internationally, where everyone is a master of exposure pts, they aren't as effective.

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