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ideamark

Decision to expel ex-UTC wrestler Corey Mock reversed in court

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You are advising young men to think about consequences when their blood supply has completly abandoned every brain cell in their head and relocated considerably south. Surely you jest. Men have been literally loosing their heads (i.e Sampson amd Delilah) in order to satisfy primal desires since homo erectus (pun intended). Wars have been faught, friendships ended and empires lost due to the carnal lust embedded in our reptilian brain. The only thing that has ever truly worked to dull our libidos is old age and now science has taken care of that in the form of a little blue pill. Not to mention that the mere possibility of a sexual encounter pervades our society with ads on television, in magazines and via electronic media. No, I just don't think a little friendly advice to keep your pecker in your pants will work any better today than it did for the first cro mangnon men and women who were overcome by the pheromones floating around. in the cave.

 

This diatribe is in no way meant to excuse atrocious behavior on the part of any individual. Personal

responsibility should, in my opinion, be expected along with the consequences reaped thereof.

Edited by Bloate

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Alcohol abuse isn't an excuse for making bad decisions. If you choose to get inebriated then you have to live with the consequences. Adhering to what society puts in front of you is also a choice. Wrong place wrong time, we have all been there and hopefully learn from it.

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In many ways, I have tried to play Devil's Advocate.  I am happily married, with a beautiful 8 month old daughter.  I have long since lost interest in any situation that could possibly lead to what happened.  My sole argument in this topic is two-fold(this sentence sounds contradictory but it is not, I promise).

 

1.)A woman shouldn't be excused a decision she may later regret SOLELY because she has been drinking.

 

2.)A man shouldn't be expected to avoid sexual relations with a woman SOLELY because she has been drinking.

 

 

The intent of the rule may be altruistic, but it is also ridiculous.........

Edited by MSU158

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The judge finding that UTC "made a mistake" in its decision is far from finding Mock innocent of anything/everything.  Not being able to prove something is hardly an endorsement for him, his behavior, or his claims of innocence.  The fact that she was puking (even in the bed) and he still went for it says a great deal about Mock even if she gave consent.  I was far from an angel, but the entire story is gross.  I don't know Mock.  Maybe he is a great kid and this was one incident totally out of his character; however, if this is just a sample of who he is, I personally wouldn't want to be around him or want him around my program.  JMHO

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Coach_J,

 

The absolute opposite of what you said may be argued as well.  Not being able to prove something can mean he is COMPLETELY innocent of ANY wrong doing.

 

As an aside, without going into detail, possibly the best relations I ever had with my wife was when I had the flu.  What does that say about my wife?  Personally, I believe the fact that she still went for it made her the best wife any man could ever wish for.........

 

 

Without being there none of us, including the School's Governing Body, had enough evidence to make ANY decision.  That is more the point of the situation than anything else...................

Edited by MSU158

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Coach_J,

 

The absolute opposite of what you said may be argued as well.  Not being able to prove something can mean he is COMPLETELY innocent of ANY wrong doing.

 

As an aside, without going into detail, possibly the best relations I ever had with my wife was when I had the flu.  What does that say about my wife?  Personally, I believe the fact that she still went for it made her the best wife any man could ever wish for.........

 

 

Without being there none of us, including the School's Governing Body, had enough evidence to make ANY decision.  That is more the point of the situation than anything else...................

As I said, he could be totally innocent of rape (she could have given consent) but his behavior is still disturbing/gross/a reflection of his character.  Regarding your personal example, there is a canyonesque difference between showing affection (we'll just use that term) for a sick, hurting person you love despite the potential risks and banging a drunk in bed of alcohol laced puke (I am just assuming your wife didn't do this on your first encounter). 

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Coach_J,

 

I admittedly and intentionally used that example for added effect.  Because you know she was vomiting does not mean you know any other action or sequence of events that led up to the sexual act, what happened during the act, what happened immediately after or many hours later.  To judge him in any way by the little information you have is unfair.  You are entitled to your opinion, and in the end may very well be right.  Still, I don't think you have enough info to go on to KNOW you are right.

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I never said anything about "knowing" anything 100%; only Mock and the girl know what happened, and neither you nor I are either of them.  Life is about making assessments and judgments and drawing impressions, at times with scant information, and this is all I can claim to have done.  What we do know is that he had sex with a girl in a bed with puke in it after one or both had consumed some amount of alcohol.  As I clearly stated, maybe he is a great kid who used bad judgment (perhaps influenced by his own use of alcohol--in some way, I'd feel more comfortable with his decision-making if alcohol played a part, as going through with behavior he doesn't deny took place while sober does not reflect well; it used to be called being a gentleman (I know, that concept doesn't exist anymore), but today it is just exercising common sense and self-protection to be dang sure where you're sticking it and with whom under what conditions).  Also, as I clearly prefaced with an "IF," if this is just a typical randy night on the town for Mr. Mock, I would distance myself from him and his actions.  These are merely my opinions and observations based only upon a lifetime of experience, much of it gathered by screwing up myself.

Edited by Coach_J

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Double standards that benefit me?  Interesting.  Name one that does? And considering how you don't know me, tell me how I use that double standard to benefit me..........  I simply hate hypocrisy.  That isn't too hard to understand.  I am quite happy being a man...................Finally, the tone of your post rings eerily close to said hypocrisy.

Edited by MSU158

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FWIW, he was accused of sexual misconduct, not assault or rape.  

Shifting gears a bit.   Does anyone else find it odd that this occurred only 4 days before the NCAA tournament?

 

Honestly, I'm surprised this hasn't been pointed out more.

 

Why is he out drinking/partying at 2 am the week before the NCAA Tournament? Does UTC not have a team policy about that sort of thing?

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These cases are a dime a dozen. http://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/uscnow/la-sp-usc-bryce-dixon-20150812-story.html

 

 

 

There is a lot of debate about the handling of these cases. Robin Wilson has done some solid work in the last few years covering the issues if anyone is interested.

 

http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Colleges-Are-on-the-Hook/146943/

 

http://chronicle.com/article/Should-Colleges-Be-Judging/229263/

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In California, a woman cannot legally give consent if she is over the legal limit (0.08% ~2 drinks). If she has sex while intoxicated and has any regrets or bad feelings about it later on, that is technically rape.

No.

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I get what MSU is saying here.  

One side gets a pass on the poor decisions made while the other side gets convicted for making the same poor decision. 

Unfortunately, the male is considered guilty unless he can prove innocence in cases like this, and that is not how the law is suppose to work. 

Here is the crux of my problem with all of this--the next day, it is very difficult to prove how intoxicated a person was. How can it be proven what the BAC of a person at the time, when it may be 12 hours....or even days.....later?  Regret for making a poor decision does not necessarily absolve you from any blame. If it was, many who regret DWI and getting caught should simply get a pass for regretting their decision when it occurred. 

"I was drinking" is not an excuse, especially when it cannot be proven (not using this case as an example, just a general statement)

Edited by Holtfan

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