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Metcalf & 65kg discussion

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So why can't anyone in the U.S. come close to beating him? Is it an intimidation factor?

 

 

There's no doubt, when the rules changed in Metcalf's favor and the weight class was reduced, there was no one domestically who would be able to beat Metcalf, at the new game.   I think that hurt USA.   Metcalf now faces a diminished level of opposition at home, and we see he just is not prepared for the physically and superior technical prowess at the world tournament.

 

There are many on this board who just cannot see it and they come to these boards with their silly outlook and predictions of world level success in the face of failure after failure, year after year.    Did any of you watch the Chinese horse Brent around and take him to the brink (many believe the Chinese won)?  It's a big world out there.   One newb on this board was up in arms over the "huge disappointment" at junior worlds.   What a joke, USA performed very well but like with Brent, most on this board cannot see beyond their naivety and really, lack of basic understanding of high level wrestling.   

 

I'm watching replays now of Brent's 2nd and 3rd matches.   I'll tell you, if he ever wants to make another team, or have any shot at all at placing, he has to get rid of Brands.   He just is not a freestyle wrestler, he's still wrestling like he's in Iowa City.   Push, pull, snap, single, pull, push, high c, snap, push, pull, rinse repeat.   Don't get me wrong, his efforts at the OTC and elsewhere are evident, he has been using chest locks, goes right into laces at times, and generally has reasonable tactics.   But just watch where a 15 year old has risen to compared to where Brent sits in the same time frame.   Pico is just getting better and better.   His performance at junior worlds a month ago is the VERY best we've ever seen him look and that has been a trend with him.   He goes from a HS state title to 3 straight world age group placings and more than the hard ware, he continues to add to his arsenal.   We saw the Chinese rag doll Brent with snap downs.   we saw him push him to the brink .  And keep in mind this is the very best version of Brent Metcalf we have ever seen.   He rose to a world #2 ranking (sure those rankings are little more than subjective and biased opinions, but what happens when the chips are down?

 

Brent began his international freestyle career during his frosh year at Iowa.   He has managed to win 3 matches at the world tournament in all those years.   You guys actually expect him to surpass that number of wins next year when the weight will be the toughest it's been in decades?   I have a bridge that's for sale, for those of you blindly expecting Brent to win because we're Merica!

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Shame on us, and especially naïve of us, to think that a guy that loses 5-4 to the World #1 and eventual bronze medalist had any chance at a medal.  He might as well have saved himself from such an embarrassing performance and just lost to Jordan Oliver at the trials.............

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I'm not convinced Bekbulatov would have done any better really.

 

I feel like Ramonov is the better wrestler.  He's the first to say that he had a rough year but last night's medal was not a failure.  Not what he wanted, but it is hardware.

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Shame on us, and especially naïve of us, to think that a guy that loses 5-4 to the World #1 and eventual bronze medalist had any chance at a medal.  He might as well have saved himself from such an embarrassing performance and just lost to Jordan Oliver at the trials.............

 

It';s not your fault really, we as American's are conditioned to follow rankings and actually put stock into them.   Where did the world #2 and #3 place? 

 

Losing to the guy ranked 1 spot above you by 1 point is certainly not shameful, but if you believe in rankings, it should come as no surprise Brent lost.   Where was the Chinese ranked that wore Brent out the round prior?  

 

It doesn't matter to me one bit, seeing y'all scratch your head and wonder in bewilderment how it is the wrestler's placements don't exactly mirror their rankings.   I actually enjoy it and get a chuckle or two from it.   There's a reason I stated here on this board once seeing the draw, Brent would win 2 and then be done.   It's simple really, if you actually understand wrestling at the highest levels.   I admit I was surprised he was pushed so hard by the Chinese, I nearly blew my prediction.   You can either continue to sit there in disbelief and make excuses, or you can stop ignoring the big picture here.   

 

Brent is a fantastic wrestler.   In my opinion he is one of the 12 or 15 best 143 pounders in the world.   I have no question he is on that level.   And he has earned that, it wasn't just given to him like the #2 ranking was.   Y'all continue on blindly expecting hardware (what is it, multiple Olympic golds that he's shooting for?) but unless something changes in his training or he benefits again from further rules changes and weight class manipulation, Brent just is not good enough at this time.    Don't believe me, just ask yourself how many matches hes won over his 10 year international career, at the world tournament.  

 

Some of us love Brent but we're realistic about his outlook, others have the blinders on and Iowa colored glasses and are set up for failure season after season.   Which one are you?

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65 is obviusly craziest weight in free style. wrestlers are so closed. ramonov, mohammadi,chamizo, asgarof and metcalf all are in  the first grade. also there are more than 7 others that are very close to them and can deft them. no surprise any outcome!

in the past for many years 74 was the craziest weight , but nowadays JB has a distance from others.

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Results speak for themselves. At this point it doesn't really matter why Brent has not won a medal, what stands out is that he consistently falls short. Echoing CT it's really not interesting to hear about a 29 year old and three-time world team member who beats champions in the off season and then pushes them real hard (but ultimately loses) at the worlds. In fact, it was barely acceptable to hear everyone ooh and ahh about Snyder's performance vs Gatsalov at BTS because he took him down and showed he isn't afraid. That's fine, but win the damn match. At 29 you have to win. Period. 

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Results speak for themselves. At this point it doesn't really matter why Brent has not won a medal, what stands out is that he consistently falls short. Echoing CT it's really not interesting to hear about a 29 year old and three-time world team member who beats champions in the off season and then pushes them real hard (but ultimately loses) at the worlds. In fact, it was barely acceptable to hear everyone ooh and ahh about Snyder's performance vs Gatsalov at BTS because he took him down and showed he isn't afraid. That's fine, but win the damn match. At 29 you have to win. Period. 

He is the best we have though.  What is your solution to make him win?   It's easy to come down on him for not medaling, but do you have any ideas to fix the problem?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I'm watching replays now of Brent's 2nd and 3rd matches.   I'll tell you, if he ever wants to make another team, or have any shot at all at placing, he has to get rid of Brands.   He just is not a freestyle wrestler, he's still wrestling like he's in Iowa City.   Push, pull, snap, single, pull, push, high c, snap, push, pull, rinse repeat.   Don't get me wrong, his efforts at the OTC and elsewhere are evident, he has been using chest locks, goes right into laces at times, and generally has reasonable tactics.   But just watch where a 15 year old has risen to compared to where Brent sits in the same time frame.   Pico is just getting better and better.   His performance at junior worlds a month ago is the VERY best we've ever seen him look and that has been a trend with him.   He goes from a HS state title to 3 straight world age group placings and more than the hard ware, he continues to add to his arsenal.   We saw the Chinese rag doll Brent with snap downs.   we saw him push him to the brink .  And keep in mind this is the very best version of Brent Metcalf we have ever seen.   He rose to a world #2 ranking (sure those rankings are little more than subjective and biased opinions, but what happens when the chips are down?

 

Brent began his international freestyle career during his frosh year at Iowa.   He has managed to win 3 matches at the world tournament in all those years.   You guys actually expect him to surpass that number of wins next year when the weight will be the toughest it's been in decades?   I have a bridge that's for sale, for those of you blindly expecting Brent to win because we're Merica!

 

I am not sure why I am even doing this, but what? Get rid of one of the best freestyle coaches we have in our country?

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I am not sure why I am even doing this, but what? Get rid of one of the best freestyle coaches we have in our country?

 

 

Can you tell me the definition of insanity? 

 

Brands is a very good coach, probably one of the best freestyle coaches in the country.  What he has done with Metcalf is nothing short of remarkable.   Has Brent ever won a world level medal at any age group?  I don't believe he ever did and yet Brands has brought him to the door step of that achievement.   But he just does not seem to be able to get him over the hump.   You tell me, would you do anything different or continue to do things as they've been? 

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Can you tell me the definition of insanity? 

 

Brands is a very good coach, probably one of the best freestyle coaches in the country.  What he has done with Metcalf is nothing short of remarkable.   Has Brent ever won a world level medal at any age group?  I don't believe he ever did and yet Brands has brought him to the door step of that achievement.   But he just does not seem to be able to get him over the hump.   You tell me, would you do anything different or continue to do things as they've been? 

 

Since the rule change, he has won one match, and then two matches at the World Tourament. All while doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. He has also become one of the most dominanting wrestlers domestically since the rule conversion. There has been actual progression at the World Championships you can point to in his last two tries.

 

The guy that beat him last year lost by TF to the China wrestler that Brent beat in the second round. Improvement. He lost by one point to a multi-World medalist and the guy that many tabbed as probably the top contender in the weightclass.

 

No, given that Brent has actually won matches in the last year, and his coach was named the Freestyle coach of the year, I don't see where he could go that would be the game changer.

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Just wish Brent could mix up his offense a little more. Would love to see all that energy used for heavy hands on head, and snaps, etc. turned into nasty shrugs and pass bys for points instead. Then his hi-c would really open up, IMO.

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Since the rule change, he has won one match, and then two matches at the World Tourament. All while doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. He has also become one of the most dominanting wrestlers domestically since the rule conversion. There has been actual progression at the World Championships you can point to in his last two tries.

 

The guy that beat him last year lost by TF to the China wrestler that Brent beat in the second round. Improvement. He lost by one point to a multi-World medalist and the guy that many tabbed as probably the top contender in the weightclass.

 

No, given that Brent has actually won matches in the last year, and his coach was named the Freestyle coach of the year, I don't see where he could go that would be the game changer.

 

 

I wont argue with you on any of your post.   Since the weight and rule change, Brent has absolutely been a better wrestler.  The competition domestically was basically extinguished once the changes took, and even on the world level, Brent became better.   You will get no disagreement from me.   

 

But as he improves, the rest of the world does as well.   Take the Chinese for example, that guy appears to be headed for an assault on the weight class next year in Brazil.   And lets not also ignore other up and coming countries such as India, Turkey, Armenia, Mongolia, etc. 

 

If you are Brent's personal and professional adviser, do you tell him to keep doing what he's doing, with confidence in order to get on the medal stand?   I want to see Brent win just as much as anyone, that's why I deliver these tough love posts.    Brands just cannot do it.   He just cannot get Brent to the next level.   He just can't.  That's no knock on Brands, that's just assessing the result, and being honest with myself.   

 

If I'm managing Brent's final push for a world level medal and an Olympic berth, I'm sending him west to ASU or OSU.   

 

Imagine Brent training with, and fending off shots from those monsters, the Valencias, or at OSU, mixing it up with a 190 pound Oliver, day in and day out.   Guerrero and Smith's technical brilliance can't hurt either.  Look what Cael did for Gomez, took him right to a world silver.   Look at Novochkov, looks lime a world medalist (screw job notwithstanding), and the list of guys improving goes on as Brent seemingly cannot get over the hump.  

 

Lets also consider Pico has been improving by leaps and bounds.  He looks like the better wrestler to me, right now.   I mean that in terms of how they are freestyling.   Brent looks like the best folkstyler trying to wrestle freestlye.   Can Brent ride that style to an Olympic berth and Olympic medal?   Do you actually trust Brands will get him there?  

 

I urge you to be honest with yourself.  I'm being honest up and down this web site since I got here.   You know why a few people don't like on here?  Because I spoil their pie in the sky dreams by injecting reality into the discussion.   I burst their bubble before it's inevitably burst and they can't stand to see me thinking i will gloat.   Of course not, I am an American and I want to see our guys win.   

 

I'm willing to call it a stalemate and leave it be, but first answer me, is Brands the best choice for Brent to get on the medal stand next year? 

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there is nothing in his post above that i disagree with except that metcalf would be better off anywhere else...

 

pico is present of 65kg for the US... and he better be because he is done after rio...

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I'm not saying that Metcalf has to leave Brands, but as a huge fan of Brent, I think he's very, very predictable to the top world guys. The lower tier guys can't stop him anyway, even if they know what's coming.

 

Go look at Brent's 2010, 2013, 2014 (vs Kaya), and yesterday's World matches. Every 1st period he does the same heavy hands thing and gives the opponent the green light for the first takedown and/or first points. Looks like he's going out there to wear the guy down instead of putting points on the board.

 

Even some of the best pitchers can throw 100 mph and strike out hitters left and right. But if that pitcher continues to throw just fastballs, the best hitters eventually light him up.

 

Again, just saying this as a fan, and a big fan of Brent and Coach Brands.

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I like Metcalf. Been been following him since was in grade school. His late brother before that. I just don't think he has "it" (whatever that means) to get through the deep fields at these fields when everyone is peaked. He seems to be able to go with the best on any given day, but in these kinds of competitions you have to go through a lot of tough people. He is a known commodity at this point and can't seem to get through everybody. Who else is there? Pico maybe? He is awfully young still and needs some more seasoning at the senior level...... something Metcalf and some results as even the junior level have shown. Is there anybody else I am missing

Edited by sgallan

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Stephen Abas seems like he would be a great coach for Brent Metcalf.  He has a totally different philosophy, is a phenomenal technical and tactical coach, and brings a flow type of offense which might help Brent get to the medal stand.  I'm sure they have worked together at the OTC before.  Brands is also a phenomenal coach, and I'm sure he exposes Brent to a number of different training environments throughout the year.

 

65kg is absurdly deep in the world, only Romanov and Mohammadi have been able to get more than 1 medal during this olympic cycle, and I don't even know when the last time a champion was able to repeat.  No one is going to dominate year in and year out, so getting through tough, close, matches where things "go your way" is the only way anyone is getting a medal. 

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Cletus, before this year you hadn't seen a Metcalf match since 2010. How can you even begin to discuss his progression?

 

I watched them all over the summer. 

 

I can probably break Metcalf down better than most on this board, given how recently adn how closely I studied him.   How is it you think I was able to call exactly his result this tournament?  I wasn't just throwing darts at the wall and picking a random result.   

 

wrestlingphish, when you've been in the game as long as I have, you either develop an eye for style and ability or you get out of Dodge.   

 

I'm in Dodge, son.   

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My thoughts (not that anyone cares...)

 

1) He's not quite the athlete that the other top guys are at this weight - he's just a touch behind in most scramble-type situations and quickness. That being said,  so are a lot of guys that medal. However, he doesn't seem able to limit his opponents offense enough to negate this problem.  The current rules could not be more suited to him.

 

2) He's reliance on condition doesn't work when he doesn't push the pace from the get go.  With a break in between rounds, to gain a real conditioning advantage he needs to get on his opponents head from the start and push the pace. He doesn't seem to do  this against the top guys (although this could be because he has a tough time stopping their shots, so maybe he feels like pushing it leaves him  too open to shots, etc., I'm not sure...)

 

3) It's his spot in the US until someone takes it from him, I wasn't a fan of his in college, but have come around to him the last few years, and was hoping he'd put it together.  The fact is, he won WT Trials fairly easily.  I don't see anyone from the US doing much better at this point.  Pico? If he can keep from growing and continue to get better.  Stieber? Maybe, but isn't he older than Dake, whose window is beginning to close according to some...  

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