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Metcalf & 65kg discussion

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+1... Had this conversation with a buddy over dinner tonight.

 

Being a native PA guys, I've always had a bias favoring Oliver.  However, when looking at the US 65 kg field (Metcalf, Oliver, Russell, Kennedy), Stieber (imho) is the only guy who has a stylistic approach to generate offense and score points.  

 

I believe that the other four have been forced to a slow-down shut-down style, specifically due to the fact that that is the match type that Metcalf forces -- thank you Tom Brands.

Edited by lu_alum

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I'm not saying that Metcalf has to leave Brands, but as a huge fan of Brent, I think he's very, very predictable to the top world guys. The lower tier guys can't stop him anyway, even if they know what's coming.

 

Go look at Brent's 2010, 2013, 2014 (vs Kaya), and yesterday's World matches. Every 1st period he does the same heavy hands thing and gives the opponent the green light for the first takedown and/or first points. Looks like he's going out there to wear the guy down instead of putting points on the board.

 

Even some of the best pitchers can throw 100 mph and strike out hitters left and right. But if that pitcher continues to throw just fastballs, the best hitters eventually light him up.

 

Again, just saying this as a fan, and a big fan of Brent and Coach Brands.

 

Yep. I know it's been said before, but maybe a change of scenery would do a whole lot of good for Brent's wrestling. Look at how much Helen Maroulis improved with a new coach with a new perspective.

 

This will likely never happen, as Metcalf lives, breathes, and bleeds Hawkeye Wrestling, but maybe the best thing for him right now is to step away from the HWC for a bit.

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+1... Had this conversation with a buddy over dinner tonight.

 

Being a native PA guys, I've always had a bias favoring Oliver.  However, when looking at the US 65 kg field (Metcalf, Oliver, Russell, Kennedy), Stieber (imho) is the only guy who has a stylistic approach to generate offense and score points.  

 

I believe that the other four have been forced to a slow-down shut-down style, specifically due to the fact that that is the match type that Metcalf forces -- thank you Tom Brands.

What about James Green?

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Maybe Metcalf can go and work with the Russians for a half year or more as some others have done? Might be to his benefit to try it.

 

As for being our guy - he is it until someone can knock him off. He wins the spot, he deserves to compete.

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Did someone just describe Metcalfs style as slow down shut down? He scored 38 points at the U.S. Open. In the World Championships, he scored 20 in 3 matches. For comparison, Chamizo scored 25 in 5 matches. His problems are far more about defense. The domestic competition "shut down" because they get smoked otherwise. Oliver essentially just shoved him in the chest for 12 minutes at the WTT.

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Did someone just describe Metcalfs style as slow down shut down? He scored 38 points at the U.S. Open. In the World Championships, he scored 20 in 3 matches. For comparison, Chamizo scored 25 in 5 matches. His problems are far more about defense. The domestic competition "shut down" because they get smoked otherwise. Oliver essentially just shoved him in the chest for 12 minutes at the WTT.

It has always been his defense coupled with his not exactly high-octane offense. Remember 2013 when Taghavi blasted him with a huge double in the first half? Metcalf eventually got going but didn't have quite enough to come back.

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I kind of like the idea of Metcalf changing coaches, and perhaps develop a game plan that entails getting on the offense earlier against the on the top level guys. But can you teach an old dog new tricks?

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Did someone just describe Metcalfs style as slow down shut down? He scored 38 points at the U.S. Open. In the World Championships, he scored 20 in 3 matches. For comparison, Chamizo scored 25 in 5 matches. His problems are far more about defense. The domestic competition "shut down" because they get smoked otherwise. Oliver essentially just shoved him in the chest for 12 minutes at the WTT.

Yeah, that was bizarre.

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I'd love to see Brent either at  ASU, or OSU.   

 

He has to learn how to freestyle, if he's ever going to get over the hump.   We have enough evidence, the club, push, and pull approach just is not getting it done at the highest level.  Brands has been great for Brent.  Unfortunately, he has probably taken him as far as he can take him.  I'd love to see Brent with Zeke Jones or John Smith.   I know there's a conflict at ASU with Oliver, but If they could work that out, I'd love to see it.  John Smith can only add to Brent's game and perhaps even clean up some of the folk mentality that's holding him back.   It wouldn't be unprecedented, Smith took former Hawk, Mocco to an Olympic berth when it seemed he just wasn't getting any better at Iowa.  

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I'd love to see Brent either at ASU, or OSU.

 

He has to learn how to freestyle, if he's ever going to get over the hump. We have enough evidence, the club, push, and pull approach just is not getting it done at the highest level. Brands has been great for Brent. Unfortunately, he has probably taken him as far as he can take him. I'd love to see Brent with Zeke Jones or John Smith. I know there's a conflict at ASU with Oliver, but If they could work that out, I'd love to see it. John Smith can only add to Brent's game and perhaps even clean up some of the folk mentality that's holding him back. It wouldn't be unprecedented, Smith took former Hawk, Mocco to an Olympic berth when it seemed he just wasn't getting any better at Iowa.

I agree... Sometimes a coach can only take one so far, and a new coach can bring a fresh perspective to certain concepts. I doubt Brent would leave Iowa, but I do think it would be a good idea for Iowa to try to bring someone in with a different style to try to add onto what they're currently doing... Or another idea would be to send Brent to OTC for extended periods of time throughout the year to try to supplement to his existing training at Iowa.

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How do we explain Terry Brands coaching Cejudo to Olympic gold?

 

 

Cejudo wrestles nothing like Iowa.  

 

I don't recall the exact training situation (Sgallen could bring us all up to speed) but iirc, he did have a Russian technique coach who was very involved with his development.  

 

If Brent could wrestle like Cejudo, I don't think anyone would be suggesting Brent get others involved with his training.   

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Brent at the OTC for extended periods of time.   Burroughs and Taylor were taking it to him months ago out there, and I have to believe that is much more helpful than beating up on the Iowa guys,while Brands plans his next intergalactic dual strategy.   

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Someone today said Metcalf suffered a concussion at the start of the match with the Chinese opponent?

 

Don't know about concussion, but it looked like they did bang heads pretty good, and Metcalf staggered back a step or two and put his hand up briefly, as if to stop the match. Haven't seen the replay, but that's what I recall seeing. After that, he did seem to be on his heels and more tentative. In the press conference at the end of it all, he downplayed it as nothing.

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Cejudo wrestles nothing like Iowa.  

 

I don't recall the exact training situation (Sgallen could bring us all up to speed) but iirc, he did have a Russian technique coach who was very involved with his development.  

 

If Brent could wrestle like Cejudo, I don't think anyone would be suggesting Brent get others involved with his training.   

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Brent at the OTC for extended periods of time.   Burroughs and Taylor were taking it to him months ago out there, and I have to believe that is much more helpful than beating up on the Iowa guys,while Brands plans his next intergalactic dual strategy.   

 

Terry Brands was named FS coach of the year this year, and did coach Cejudo to Olympic gold. But no matter... ol' cletus knows better.

 

Gotta chuckle at the garbage cletus throws out.

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Don't know about concussion, but it looked like they did bang heads pretty good, and Metcalf staggered back a step or two and put his hand up briefly, as if to stop the match. Haven't seen the replay, but that's what I recall seeing. After that, he did seem to be on his heels and more tentative. In the press conference at the end of it all, he downplayed it as nothing.

 

He definitely downplayed it, because he is and has always been a stone-cold-bad-ass, but at the same time he was certainly describing concussion symptoms, so it is really hard to say that had no effect on his wrestling. 

 

Side note: I remember seeing Brent lose a rare freestyle match when we were in H.S. (we were always the same age-group and close in weight) at Junior Duals, and he was standing over his opponent (Johnstone, maybe?) yelling at him to get up and wrestle ( Brent had already made his lungs implode, and he barely hung on).  Brent was always around to remind me that some people wanted success in wrestling more than I did, and that maybe that was okay lol.  That said, I have always admired his tenacity, incredible technique/ mat savvy, and his resilience, especially after Chase passed away.  I'm in the minority here that think the Brent's wrestling career isn't somehow overshadowed by a lack of a World medal.  That might make him hard to recall for newbies fifty years from now looking back, but anyone who has actually seen him compete over the last couple decades certainly will not forget how awesome he has been.  The only thing I would love to see him change is to unleash his viscous gut-wrench, as he probably has the best of all our freestyle guys, but seems resigned to battle it out in neutral all the time. 

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Terry Brands was named FS coach of the year this year, and did coach Cejudo to Olympic gold. But no matter... ol' cletus knows better.

 

Gotta chuckle at the garbage cletus throws out.

 

 

Rosie Rosie Rosie.   There you go getting your feelings hurt again,.  I don't knock Brands, I just don't think Brent is at Cejudo's level, nor has Brands shown the ability to get him there.  That's certainly not Brand's fault, they are different people, with different abilities.   

 

I mean look at Manning, would you call him a 4 x better coach than Brands?  10 x better? 

 

I think you have to consider the guy they are working with and lets be honest, Burroughs and Metcalf are not equal.   

 

You're trying to make Brands a victim here when that's not even the point of the conversation.   If Metcalf went to Manning, I wouldn't expect any significant improvement.  I don't mean that as a knock on Manning, just an honest observation.   

 

Please stop feeling sorry for yourself and for Brands.   We have one more year left to see what Brent can get accomplished.  I for 1 am 100% behind him, no matter how long the odds are of him accomplishing his goals.   

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   We have one more year left to see what Brent can get accomplished.  I for 1 am 100% behind him, no matter how long the odds are of him accomplishing his goals.   

Having been at the World's and seeing the competition...... I would LOVE for Brent to medal at Rio... BUT it simply appears that the top guys at 65 are just more athletic than Brent (faster and stronger) Not to mention, IF Green gets to 65 and can be effective he will be tough for Brent to get by.

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Ramos trains at both Titan Mercury WC and Hawkeye WC, does Metcalf?

 

NYAC, right? Although who knows how much time he or some of the other wrestlers on their roster actually spends there, or if Andy Hrovat is still the coach (isn't he with CK?).

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