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Metcalf & 65kg discussion

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Having been at the World's and seeing the competition...... I would LOVE for Brent to medal at Rio... BUT it simply appears that the top guys at 65 are just more athletic than Brent (faster and stronger) Not to mention, IF Green gets to 65 and can be effective he will be tough for Brent to get by.

Will Green still be stronger if he makes the cut?  That's usually a BIG if.  I wonder IF Dustin Schlatter can make it as well. He is just getting back into form, and Green had a very tight match with him.  Whomever makes the cut, and does it effectively, will have a beast of a trial to navigate. Like biggest log-jam ever in US. 

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Brent owns this weight domestically until he decides to give it up.  I find it laughable that it is said he only has 1 year left.  If he wants to he could have 5 more.  NO ONE is close.  IF he wants, he could be the guy in 2020.  There is not a guy that has shown he can beat Brent once let alone 2 out of 3.  If Green cuts to 143, he will not go 6 minutes with Metcalf.  If Pico gives Seniors a few more tries he will not beat Metcalf.  Metcalf wants a medal that badly.  He may not get it, but it won't be because someone in the U.S. stops him from competing for one..................

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pico showed he could wrestle with metcalf at agon... pico at juniors looked considerably more dynamic than metcalf at seniors... in my mind, pico is the favorite in that match up at team trials... and it will be chippy as hell

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It is funny that everyone in the anti-Metcalf camp uses factual based data (his world results) to prove that he will never medal,

and then rely solely on anectdotes and gut feel to show that he will be beaten in the trials.

 

Looking only at results, he is a lot closer to getting a world medal than he is to losing his spot on the US national team.

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Brent owns this weight domestically until he decides to give it up.  I find it laughable that it is said he only has 1 year left.  If he wants to he could have 5 more.  NO ONE is close.  IF he wants, he could be the guy in 2020.  There is not a guy that has shown he can beat Brent once let alone 2 out of 3.  If Green cuts to 143, he will not go 6 minutes with Metcalf.  If Pico gives Seniors a few more tries he will not beat Metcalf.  Metcalf wants a medal that badly.  He may not get it, but it won't be because someone in the U.S. stops him from competing for one..................

 

 

It is funny that everyone in the anti-Metcalf camp uses factual based data (his world results) to prove that he will never medal,

and then rely solely on anectdotes and gut feel to show that he will be beaten in the trials.

 

Looking only at results, he is a lot closer to getting a world medal than he is to losing his spot on the US national team.

 

 

Right. I guess my question for those who think we need someone else at 65kg is not only whether Oliver/Pico/Stieber (etc.) can beat Metcalf, but whether one of those guys could qualify the weight for Team USA. I really don't know.

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Will Green still be stronger if he makes the cut?  That's usually a BIG if.  I wonder IF Dustin Schlatter can make it as well. He is just getting back into form, and Green had a very tight match with him.  Whomever makes the cut, and does it effectively, will have a beast of a trial to navigate. Like biggest log-jam ever in US. 

Fish I have no disagreement with what you have said.... tho I will say Green had "a beast of a trial to navigate" at 70 kilos and fared pretty well.

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Brent owns this weight domestically until he decides to give it up.  I find it laughable that it is said he only has 1 year left.  If he wants to he could have 5 more.  NO ONE is close.  IF he wants, he could be the guy in 2020.  There is not a guy that has shown he can beat Brent once let alone 2 out of 3.  If Green cuts to 143, he will not go 6 minutes with Metcalf.  If Pico gives Seniors a few more tries he will not beat Metcalf.  Metcalf wants a medal that badly.  He may not get it, but it won't be because someone in the U.S. stops him from competing for one..................

 

 

I hope he does give it till 2020.   He does seem like the wrestling lifer, type, I just wonder if he can keep it together mentally, all those years.   It would be one thing if he was winning medals every now and then.   It has got to be really wearing on him to concluded every freestyle season with disappointment, for the past 10 years.   Multiple Olympic golds is what he said he is shooting for.   I give him all the credit in the world for his will to keep at it.   I'm with you MSN, 

 

Lets Go Brent! 

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Saying that a 34 year old Metcalf would still be the guy at this weight for the US is pretty much saying you think the depth at the weight sucks domestically. 

compared to the talent at this year's worlds, i may not say the US depth sucks at 65kg because i respect the US wrestlers too much, but otherwise, um, yes. 

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Saying that a 34 year old Metcalf would still be the guy at this weight for the US is pretty much saying you think the depth at the weight sucks domestically. 

 

Other then MSU and Rossel, no one would take Metcalf over the field for the next five years. That's a long time and too many things can happen.  

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Other then MSU and Rossel, no one would take Metcalf over the field for the next five years. That's a long time and too many things can happen.  

well sure, 5 years out the field is the best bet at pretty much any weight class. 

 

a more interesting question would be what one person would you pick now to be the guy over Metcalf in Tokyo. 

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Obviously I wouldn't take a bet on Metcalf(without significant odds) against the field for the next 5 years.  My point was he is the CLEAR favorite of anyone we know NOW, over that 5 year timeframe, until someone shows they are even at his level, let alone better.  Many knock his age, but he has PROVEN to get better each season.  With his work ethic, and the fact he doesn't take much time off, I see no reason to believe he will fall off in the next 5 years just because he is in his EARLY 30's.

Edited by MSU158

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Fish I have no disagreement with what you have said.... tho I will say Green had "a beast of a trial to navigate" at 70 kilos and fared pretty well.

No doubt about it. Green did great this whole spring and summer.  But we can't forget Schlatter was right there. I think that match came down to a single move or call.  Schlatter may be ready for him next time, or maybe not. BUt if they both try Metcalf's weightclass, the one that makes the cut best is the one that has the better chance, IMO.  Neither one will maintain the strength he currently has after the cut.  Losing the mass alone assures that partially.  

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pico showed he could wrestle with metcalf at agon... pico at juniors looked considerably more dynamic than metcalf at seniors... in my mind, pico is the favorite in that match up at team trials... and it will be chippy as hell

 

"Pico Showed he could wrestle with Metcalf at Agon" - Based on what? What did Pico do to prove that he can beat Metcalf other than show that he can slap Metcalf in the head?

 

"pico at juniors looked considerably more dynamic than metcalf at seniors" How is that used in your arguement? Pico got a silver medal in that tourney the year before. He was expected to look good. Metcalf was going against the best against the World. They are completely different tournaments with completely different levels of compeition.

 

The point is I am sure Metcalf would have looked just as good, if not better against the JR guys, and Pico might not have looked as good as Metcalf if he would have been our SR World Team member. It's fine if you want to say you think Pico will over take Brent, but saying Pico's performance at a lesser tournament is hardly proof for this. Most unbaised fans will tell you Metcalf looked tough he just once again didn't get the job done (even Metcalf will tell you that).

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The dude that beat Pico last year wrestled for gold at seniors this year...

 

Sadulaev came from winning cadets straight to winning seniors...

 

Metcalf didn't dominate Pico... he did what he does which is stall out and wrestle a folk style... that did nothing for him this year at worlds... in the second period of their match agon you could see Pico realize that he can wrestle with metcalf... like anything else, this game is as much mental as physical...

 

did you actually watch Pico's bronze medal match at juniors?

that was a different showing than what we have traditionally seen from him...

 

but, what can't be denied is that metcalf's dull stall out folk style does not lend itself to success on the world stage...

 

and i like metcalf... i like his edge... he just isn't going to reach the highest level... no shame... 

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The dude that beat Pico last year wrestled for gold at seniors this year...

 

Sadulaev came from winning cadets straight to winning seniors...

 

Metcalf didn't dominate Pico... he did what he does which is stall out and wrestle a folk style... that did nothing for him this year at worlds... in the second period of their match agon you could see Pico realize that he can wrestle with metcalf... like anything else, this game is as much mental as physical...

 

did you actually watch Pico's bronze medal match at juniors?

that was a different showing than what we have traditionally seen from him...

 

but, what can't be denied is that metcalf's dull stall out folk style does not lend itself to success on the world stage...

 

and i like metcalf... i like his edge... he just isn't going to reach the highest level... no shame... 

 

 

"Sadulaev came from winning cadets straight to winning seniors..." Let's call him the exception, not the rule. There have been 9 teenage World Champs in history.

 

"Metcalf didn't dominate Pico... he did what he does which is stall out and wrestle a folk style... that did nothing for him this year at worlds... in the second period of their match agon you could see Pico realize that he can wrestle with metcalf..." I didn't say Metcalf dominated, but at the same time Pico did absolutely nothing. At least Brent scored. From what I recall Pico did little in that match except for trying to slow Metcalf down. It's not like Pico was out there using his "dynamic offense" against Brent.

 

It doesn't really matter what happens on the World stage actually. Brent can go out and lay an egg every time so long as he continues to beat the Americans, our rules are setup so that the person who wins the trials wrestles at Worlds/Olympics. The closest any have come is Jordan Oliver straight arm shoving Metcalf for two matches and calling it a game plan. As far as just wrestling a folk match with everyone? Please. In 2014 he won the U.S. Open outscoring everyone 39-0, this year he outscored Americans 38-5. He scores plenty.

Edited by hawktalk3

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LJB,

 

How about this, I will wager you whatever you wish that Metcalf does not lose to Pico in a sanctioned International Style(Freestyle) Match in the next two seasons.  Interested?  That would include any regular season tournament like Dave Schultz or Yarygin, US Open, WTT or OTT.

 

 

Edited to clarify International Style as Freestyle

Edited by MSU158

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Ramos trains at both Titan Mercury WC and Hawkeye WC, does Metcalf?

Ramos doesn't train at Titan Mercury.  He's sponsored by them.  Metcalf used to be with TMWC/NYAC/HWC but now is only NYAC/HWC

 

A lot of other wrestlers on the TMWC roster like Snyder, Dake, James Green, Pico, Ramos, Steiber, Joe Colon, etc..

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LJB,

 

How about this, I will wager you whatever you wish that Metcalf does not lose to Pico in a sanctioned International Style(Freestyle) Match in the next two seasons.  Interested?  That would include any regular season tournament like Dave Schultz or Yarygin, US Open, WTT or OTT.

 

 

Edited to clarify International Style as Freestyle

a wager?

why would i wager on anything that i was not able to influence directly?

that makes little sense to me, but, i am not a frat boy so i don't suppose it would...

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so you didn't see pico's match at juniors?

 

gotcha...

 

go watch it and see the difference then get back at me...

 

p.s- i do like the picking and choosing...

I did, but I didn't think I needed to address this, but I guess I can. You said in the bronze match you have saw something that we haven't seen before. So one match at the Junior World Tournament is what you are basing your entire case on? Good luck with that. I perfer to use the arguement I constructed, you know, the one where there is the fact that Metcalf has beaten Pico once within the last 6 months and the proof that Metcalf actually scores on Americans and doens't wrestle a "folk" match.

 

Keep beating the Pico drum, I am fine with it, but I don't feel like you are presenting the strongest arguement other than you don't like how Brent has performed at Worlds.

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the point was that Pico showed somehting different whereas metcalf has not...

I personally think Pico didn't show anything different at worlds than what was expected. I also don't think he has necessarily made up any ground in Brent from a physical development standpoint, nor a mental standpoint.  Pico might beat him but wrestle-back finals always have results like this, one way or another.  Wrestling without pressure and nothing to lose is just different. 

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when was the last time we saw leg attacks from Pico?

 

oh yeah, never...

 

the result wasn't the big deal... the manner in how it was achieved was what was eye opening...

 

i get the metcalf love fest... i like him a bunch as well, but, he is the same guy... Pico is not... how anyone can not see that is a bit puzzling to me...

 

if Pico can contrinue to expand and develope his game like he has actually shown, then i pick him at the trials... 

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